[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Sakorath67]

Yeah, but that's what optional sub is for - guaranteed money. If the game is good, people will pay, regardless if they have to or not. It's like tipping a good waiter, lol. But many people don't want to pay monthly, and it's not good for developers to cut them off the game completely, because these more-or-less casual players could pay a lot for visuals or convenience items like XP boosts when they have time to play, and they could even pay more than they would with just sub. Yeah, it's kind of a gamble, but it usually turns out as a win for the developers.

You said that yourself, you don't want to pay 15 dollars a month. But I bet you wouldn't mind buying some things from in-game store occasionally.

Indeed, but the notion that guaranteed money is bad for the developers is silly.

They get paid, they are happy.

Are us players happy? Probably not as much.

[Ryuji]

If I may, gonna add my two cents to the F2P with optional sub thing. I've recently gone back to SWTOR to play through some more of the class stories(I couldn't care less about the PvP in TOR, but am kinda-sorta interested in the raiding...but not very interested).

First off, I understand F2P games are meant to...encourage you to buy stuff here and there, but the way that TOR does it (Say you just got the game and dropped $5 to get preferred status and have not bought anything in the cartel market) is just...off.

http://www.swtor.com/free/features

Just skimming through that list shows less of developers encouraging you to sub and more of them untying the noose around your neck if you sub. It's just...awful. To counter-point though, I somewhat understand if, say, someone is ONLY interested in the class stories and that's it. But even then, the comparison between sub and F2P is just...a bit much, imho.

Also, I'm not against F2P games at all. I just don't like when a F2P game pretty much has you at gunpoint if you don't sub.

Maybe I'm overreacting to TOR's F2P vs. Sub model, Idunno. I know it's not as bad as it was at the F2P release with all of the 2 action bars F2P had(other limitations notwithstanding). I mean, really...2 action bars? :|

[Edge-]

Maybe I'm overreacting to TOR's F2P vs. Sub model, Idunno. I know it's not as bad as it was at the F2P release with all of the 2 action bars F2P had(other limitations notwithstanding). I mean, really...2 action bars? :|

I'd say you are, because SWTOR is an anomaly when it comes to modern Western F2P MMO business models in how fucking terrible their model is for free players and how cash-shop centric their development of the game has been. The only games that come close to being as restrictive are EQ1/2, and SoE has loosened up restrictions on them quite a bit over the years.

If you want to see some better models, check out Rift, Tera, DCUO, STO or even LOTRO.

[zito]

I'd say you are, because SWTOR is an anomaly when it comes to modern Western F2P MMO business models in how fucking terrible their model is for free players and how cash-shop centric their development of the game has been. The only games that come close to being as restrictive are EQ1/2, and SoE has loosened up restrictions on them quite a bit over the years.

If you want to see some better models, check out Rift, Tera, DCUO, STO or even LOTRO.

It's more of a trial then an actual F2P model.

[Ryuji]

I'd say you are, because SWTOR is an anomaly when it comes to modern Western F2P MMO business models in how fucking terrible their model is for free players and how cash-shop centric their development of the game has been. The only games that come close to being as restrictive are EQ1/2, and SoE has loosened up restrictions on them quite a bit over the years.

If you want to see some better models, check out Rift, Tera, DCUO, STO or even LOTRO.

Hmm, true. Just always bugged me how limited you felt as a F2P'er in TOR. I ended up subbing for a month to not have to deal with it which pretty much is exactly what the developers hope for I think.

and out of those MMOs you listed, I've only played Tera which I highly enjoyed. Only bought some cosmetic stuff here and there and I felt it was worth the purchase. ...Now that I think about it I should get back into that. Was a lot of fun on the Berserker I was playing.

But in regards to WildStar, I *REALLY* hope they don't try TOR's model. Or trial as zito put it. :P

[Vexies]

But in regards to WildStar, I *REALLY* hope they don't try TOR's model. Or trial as zito put it. :P

As a previous long time fan of the pre-F2P SWTOR .. Having experienced the transition first hand, the constant absolutely amazingly hamfisted handling of that game and its PR and the now in place "free to make you hate the game" system Id like to think no developer could be as inept or as little in touch with there fan base as SWTOR's management has been. It pretty much has sadly become the shining example of how NOT to make a F2P system and the one most trotted out to justify those who hate F2P's concerns. Its sad really.

From what ive seen of Wildstar I dont think we will see anything close to that. I am very curious as to what this "hybrid" system will be but I have a lot of confidence it will be nothing like SWTOR's

[RoninaThorstone]

No one is going to try anything close to Swtors first attempt at a f2p model simply because of how bad the backlash was. Period.

Now, swtor has come a long way from considering the ability to "space bar through convos" as a cash shop item. Now their model is actually quiet good. It's just very few people have gone back to see what it's like now.

[Loaf Lord]

Wow, they thought about making you PAY to be able to skip convos? That is just... depraved.

[RoninaThorstone]

Wow, they thought about making you PAY to be able to skip convos? That is just... depraved.

Yup!

And they now give you free cash currency for doing achievements and stuff. Like, they learned their lesson.

[nazrakin]

What bothers me about f2p games is that I never see a true hybrid model. Theres an "optional" subscription that gets you some perks, but there is still a significant amount of stuff behind a paywall. It feels like the f2p model is really just an excuse to force your loyal fans to pay significantly more.

If I'm a subscriber then I should be entitled to *everything* the game has to offer, no exceptions.

[RoninaThorstone]

What bothers me about f2p games is that I never see a true hybrid model. Theres an "optional" subscription that gets you some perks, but there is still a significant amount of stuff behind a paywall. It feels like the f2p model is really just an excuse to force your loyal fans to pay significantly more.

If I'm a subscriber then I should be entitled to *everything* the game has to offer, no exceptions.

That's why its being called a "patron" status nowadays.

[Keren]

I heared they are trying very different ways and pay-options to get a feel what its worth paying (ingame currency) for and what not.
I would be laughing, if you would have to "pay" a energy-bill for the lamps in your player house each week. else they will not light up

[Kelimbror]

What bothers me about f2p games is that I never see a true hybrid model.

Tera, TSW, LotRO. All games that in their own way provide a hybrid method for paying. The first is completely free with an optional sub, just like you claim doesn't exist. Rift also is this way.

TSW is free to a point, then extra content costs small amounts of money. This effectively allows you to try out, then opt into the game. Additionally they provide a subscription, which yields a stipend, thus the ability to purchase the content from your sub.

LotRO is a slight twist on that model, where they place more emphasis on the subscription. If you play free, there are a lot of content restrictions. If you sub, there are no restrictions and you earn a stipend to buy out of the sub model if you choose. If you don't sub, it lets you pay for just the content you want. Don't like this particular set of zones? Ok, buy this other quest pack for the ones you do like.

Every model has it's ups and downs, but all of them give you more options than sub or gtfo.

[Deleted]

I think the problem with WoW is that it feels entitled to charge customers a sub fee because they are getting so much content all the time (which they aren't but that's another story). The problem is, many people only play one aspect of the game and don't care about the other 80% or w/e that they are not consuming. No one enjoys being forced to do what they don't want to do especially when it comes to what they do in their down time. Worse still is a one size fits all business model that is just not practical or appropriate when you look at what people are doing in game. Many people feel like they have to do things that they don't necessarily hate but don't really like either in WoW just to get their money's worth. This is bad.

The best business models in mmos of the future will break down the game and monetize different parts of it letting people pay for what they want to play not for everything even stuff that they don't enjoy. Personally, I feel that WoW has a horrendous business model that it can't abandon otherwise the game and gameplay would implode but which is ultimately going to speed up its decline regardless.

Remember also, that people are wary of F2P games. It makes people think, perhaps unjustifiably, that they are getting a lower quality product. Having a sub fee for WildStar but one which is modified and not as greedy looking as WoW's would make people think this is the same thing as WoW but better quality for less money. It would give WildStar a better perception in the eyes of consumers and gamers if it had a sub at least initially.

I think there are 2 really good payment options for future mmos, both of which would be a modified form of sub:

1) A cheaper sub than normal in conjunction with a cheaper cash shop with more cosmetic items. The developers would still allocate the same resources to developing art for the game but more of it would appear in the cash shop. This way, you can choose what look you want to pay for and not feel you have to pay extra money just to have the choice of having other styles in the game if you should ever want them.

In addition to this, expansions should not cost anything so people would get very excited that they are getting huge amounts of content every year for free without feeling like developers owe them a set standard or amount of content since they pay a low sub anyway.

So for example as a UK customer WoW costs £8.99 a month. A good solution for WildStar imo would be to make the sub cost half of that or less, let's say £3.99 a month, with a cash shop that has double the amount of cosmetic items as wow's but all at a lower cost.


2) Sub fee charged by the hour or by the day instead of monthly. They are already doing this abroad and I don't see why they couldn't do it here. It is clearly a better value for money system that exists out of necessity due to gaming habits in the east but which is not brought to the west, I believe, because the developers are greedy and know they can get away with it over here. Personally I feel that this business model will become more common here in the west soon.

[nazrakin]

Tera, TSW, LotRO. All games that in their own way provide a hybrid method for paying. The first is completely free with an optional sub, just like you claim doesn't exist. Rift also is this way.

TSW is free to a point, then extra content costs small amounts of money. This effectively allows you to try out, then opt into the game. Additionally they provide a subscription, which yields a stipend, thus the ability to purchase the content from your sub.

LotRO is a slight twist on that model, where they place more emphasis on the subscription. If you play free, there are a lot of content restrictions. If you sub, there are no restrictions and you earn a stipend to buy out of the sub model if you choose. If you don't sub, it lets you pay for just the content you want. Don't like this particular set of zones? Ok, buy this other quest pack for the ones you do like.

Every model has it's ups and downs, but all of them give you more options than sub or gtfo.

What I mean by a *true* hybrid model is one that provides unmitigated access to all of a game's content. If I subscribe to one of these games, I don't want to deal with a store, credits, or monthly stipends... just take x amount of dollar from my bank account and keep the content coming. I'm not familiar with Tera's f2p model, but a quickly glance at their website suggests that "Elite" status only earns you a discount on store items, so I'm not sure they have what I'm talking about. Hell, WoW doesn't have what I'm talking about, especially as they move toward making their store more prominent.

[Kelimbror]

What I mean by a *true* hybrid model is one that provides unmitigated access to all of a game's content.

Wwhat you are saying equates to a subscription model from 9 years ago. Also, having a cash shop is not mutually exclusive with providing all of a game's content. TERA and Rift both do exactly what you just wrote in regards to allowing access to all content.

If I subscribe to one of these games, I don't want to deal with a store, credits, or monthly stipends... just take x amount of dollar from my bank account and keep the content coming.

This isn't a hybrid model; this is called a subscription. It is exactly what WoW looked like prior to adding pets/mounts/character services. It's an archaic and frankly a terrible model.

Additionally, since you intially proposed this as being carried out by a F2P game, nothing you're saying matches up. You're either unknowingly asking for a subscription only game, or asking that a F2P game somehow provide unlimited content for a sub without a cash shop...ie, back to asking for a subscription only game as what does the 'free' portion of a game include if not content?

[nazrakin]

Wwhat you are saying equates to a subscription model from 9 years ago. Also, having a cash shop is not mutually exclusive with providing all of a game's content. TERA and Rift both do exactly what you just wrote in regards to allowing access to all content.

This isn't a hybrid model; this is called a subscription. It is exactly what WoW looked like prior to adding pets/mounts/character services. It's an archaic and frankly a terrible model.

What I'm talking about is a game that has both a free to play option and that "archaic and terrible" subscription option that allows me to pay a recurring cost and not deal with the store. I'm not sure why thats such a crazy idea.

As far as Rift and Tera are concerned, are you saying that everything in those stores are available to subscribers without having to pay or save up your monthly allowance of made up store bucks? I'll be honest, I'm not familiar enough with either model, so its a genuine question. Their websites don't seem to indicate that.

[zito]

What I'm talking about is a game that has both a free to play option and that "archaic and terrible" subscription option that allows me to pay a recurring cost and not deal with the store. I'm not sure why thats such a crazy idea.

As far as Rift anad Tera are concerned, are you saying that everything in those stores are available to subscribers without having to pay or save up your monthly allowance of made up store bucks?

I don't know why you are mad about TERA and RIFT since everything in there is optional and cosmetic.

As for your version of "hybrid" you just want a game with a glorified trial. AKA SWTOR

[nazrakin]

I don't know why you are mad about TERA and RIFT since everything in there is optional and cosmetic.

As for your version of "hybrid" you just want a game with a glorified trial. AKA SWTOR

What makes you think I'm mad about them? Its a discussion about the f2p model and I'm simply trying to understand theirs.

As for your version of "hybrid" you just want a game with a glorified trial. AKA SWTOR

Feel free to elaborate. I don't think that is what I'm asking for at all. I simply want a pay option that allows me to ignore the paywall and enjoy every bit of content (cosmetic, mounts, or otherwise) that is put into the game. SWTOR most definitely does not allow that.

[Vexies]

What I'm talking about is a game that has both a free to play option and that "archaic and terrible" subscription option that allows me to pay a recurring cost and not deal with the store. I'm not sure why thats such a crazy idea.

In terms of that supposedly gated awesome cosmetic crap that most F2P games bloat there cash shops with and the model your talking about is.. how much free crap do you get with that sub? It inevitably comes down to some sort of stipend because unlimited just doesn't fly with the F2P customer plucking down cash for the cash shop stuff. Do you get one shiny cosmetic help per character, per account, two, three for your sub? You can see the obvious issues with that right away and see why your unlikely to ever see that enter the market.