[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Airlick]

I really feel upset by the model business in W*. They've been hyping the model up for months, claiming it will be something new and interesting, and then they throw us something like this. It's not that I'm upset with the game or devs - I'm upset with their ridiculously bad PR. Also, the price for the game is high, considering there will be sub, and if I don't get access to beta to try it out and see for myself if there are no major design flaws, it's unlikely that I'll buy it.

[Holtzmann]

I really feel upset by the model business in W*. They've been hyping the model up for months, claiming it will be something new and interesting, and then they throw us something like this. It's not that I'm upset with the game or devs - I'm upset with their ridiculously bad PR. Also, the price for the game is high, considering there will be sub, and if I don't get access to beta to try it out and see for myself if there are no major design flaws, it's unlikely that I'll buy it.

Uh, you wanted a new and interesting business model, too? Personally, I'm expecting interesting gameplay, not payment options.

Also, you don't want to be in the Beta if you want to test a game without major design flaws, unless you join up very late in the process (as in: the last week of Beta). You should probably wait a month after release to hear what people who actually played the released game have been saying, then ask for one of the 7-day passes to try it out yourself.

[Kelimbror]

The reason every MMO has failed is because they devs don't know what they are doing. Everything I have heard Carbine say tells me they understand MMO's and aren't just in it for the cash cow. The fact that they have vanilla wow devs sold me.

This has been said about a dozen games now. You'll abandon it just like everyone else has the other games. Do you know how many former WoW devs work on new games...especially new MMOs? It's a lot.

F2P doesn't work on an MMO focused on endgame. I'm sorry, it just doesn't.

Please show me the factual information that proves that load of rubbish. And also, what are you conveniently defining as 'endgame' to match your opinions? Because I can guarantee it's 100% incorrect.

News flash:
1) 'Endgame' isn't solely comprised by raiding.
2) Raiding and subscriptions aren't mutuall exclusive.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh, you wanted a new and interesting business model, too? Personally, I'm expecting interesting gameplay, not payment options.

You just dissed on someone earlier for judging how people spend their money, but now you judge someone on what they expect from a game? That's tacky.

Also, you don't want to be in the Beta if you want to test a game without major design flaws

Design flaws =/= bugs.

[Deleted]

This has been said about a dozen games now. You'll abandon it just like everyone else has the other games. Do you know how many former WoW devs work on new games...especially new MMOs? It's a lot.

yes ill abandon it sometime.. just like ive done with every free to play, buy to play, freemium game ive ever played. The payment model is never a dealbreaker for me. If people are that annoyed with the payment model then fine just dont play it but to expect something to fail due to its payment model regardless of its quality and game content is just pathetic and ridiculous imo.

It seems that the game quality has been lowered due to its payment model.. which i find bizarre.

http://strawpoll.me/346371

again the poll which has remained almost the exact same (percentage wise) since 400 votes. Clearly people dont care that much and those who do probably wouldnt have played it anyway.

[Deleted]

Personally I don't like Wildstar's business model a single bit. We still don't know the importance of gold in the game, so I will reserve my final judgement for now, but it doesn't look good atm.

If the system would allow to buy CREDDs for in game gold from a NPC while removing the gold from the game in the process it would be fine for me. That creates a strong gold sink and everyone will be on an equal playing field. Someone could argue that it would be hard to regulate the price of CREDDs, but I'm sure it would be possible to make a system that simulates CREDD supply and regulates the price based on the demand of the players, the amount of gold present in the world etc.

This is a system that would be good for all the players, but unfortunately it's not very good for Carbine as that would allow a part of the playerbase to actually play for free instead of their business model where they indirectly get more money for each player that plays for "free" compared to a player that pays a regular subscription while giving some players an unfair advantage to some extent (again depending on the importance of gold in the game).

[Kelimbror]

*snip*.

I 100% agree. I have never liked the practice of allowing players to buy gold directly for a company. I'd rather they focus their efforts on preventing gold sellers from being effective in direct means instead of saying "If you can't beat them, join them." The funny part is that this still allows gold sellers a monumental opportunity to sell gold...possibly even more incentive than ever before as now people will go buy gold from a gold seller in order to buy a subscription to even play the game.

It's completely counter intuitive to their expressed reasons for implementing the 'option'. It's basically just another way to pillage their players and buff their subscription numbers. I can guarantee they will proudly proclaim x millino subs when half of them didn't actually pay for it and it was instead bought by other subscribers like an item in a cash shop.

So many things wrong with this model it makes my head spin.

[Vexies]

If youre that annoyed with the payment model then fine just dont play it but to expect something to fail due to its payment model regardless of its quality and game content is just pathetic and ridiculous imo.

Ahh.. but see its not. The market is simply changed. IF and its a big IF the community and developers would realize that 2 million subs is a lot and plenty for a healthy game then many games would have succeeded with this supposedly awesome model.. but they dont. The community instantly cries fail, lolz, game doesnt beat WoW sub numbers lolz, just like all the others. Dev overlords yell, What!! your not puling in bagillions of subs?!!! pshh abandon game!

Its a constant downward spiral thats just not healthy for the industry or the genre. There are too many good options. Games simply arent going going to pull in the cities of gold that where pioneered by the one great be all end all that is the holly grail everyone is obsessed with holding other games too. Until the community and developers adjusts to the new reality this will keep happening. This is what we see signs of with Wildstar and this is why people are upset.

I think it will as with most new MMO's peak at 2-3 million subs maybe slightly more. Will it be enough for those holding the check book of Wildstar to be happy with? I guess we will see

[Kelimbror]

Dev overlords yell, What!! your not puling in bagillions of subs?!!! pshh abandon game!

Its a constant downward spiral thats just not healthy for the industry or the genre.

You're forgetting that the reason they have to switch is because the subscription model becomes unprofitable. It's not rocket science. It's not some evil conspiracy that fan reception of a game not being as successful as WoW thereby causes it to fail. It's just numbers.

A company wants to make an awesome MMO. To do that, they need someone with hundreds of millions of dollars to pay for it. Those investors clearly want to make their money back plus more, because investing isn't charity work. So you have an initial box sale, subscription period, etc. with the intention that they will reduce staff, cut budgets, and go F2P for the rest of their days.

This development is one that everyone has determined maximizes revenue as quickly as possible. It's pandering, it's disgusting, and ultimately we shouldn't even be supporting it which is why so many people do not like subscription models. For all the talk of games being a service, they are promising lots of content, etc...it's all just marketing to get you to buy into something they know will make them $$$.

Wildstar to this point hadn't acted like they were caught up in any of that. Plus the fact that NCSoft was publishing hot on the heels of GW2, arguably the pinnacle of a payment model and content delivery, and how Gaffney kept falsely advertising the model...people are understandably shocked by this development. I think they are going to regret letting this one slip so early.

[Deleted]

2m subs at 15-20 dollars per month.. yes thats enough lol. 1m sustained subs would be enough.

[Deleted]

I think it will as with most new MMO's peak at 2-3 million subs maybe slightly more. Will it be enough for those holding the check book of Wildstar to be happy with? I guess we will see

Personally I think if they just sold 3 millions copies and retained a stable 1 million subs with the current business model that gets them 15+ $ a month per player we will see a Wildstar Wednesday with a video showing rivers of champagne flowing through Carbine and NCSoft offices with the commentary of a completely smashed Jeremy Gaffney.

[Vexies]

2m subs at 15-20 dollars per month.. yes thats enough lol. 1m sustained subs would be enough.

Yet they where not enough for many MMO's.. thats the problem. Now plenty of those games helped shoot themselves in the foot but regardless the common perception is not in agreement with you.

[Deleted]

Yet they where not enough for many MMO's.. thats the problem. Now plenty of those games helped shoot themselves in the foot but regardless the common perception is not in agreement with you.

im sorry if a steady income of 15m+ per month isnt enough for an mmo then its doing something wrong anyway.

[Vexies]

im sorry if a steady income of 15m+ per month isnt enough for an mmo then its doing something wrong anyway.

Well the market thus far does not agree with you as not one of those who had just that stayed with a sub model

[Deleted]

Well the market thus far does not agree with you as not one of those who had just that stayed with a sub model

which sustained 1m subs mmo are you talking about?

[Vexies]

SWTOR, Rifts, TSW, Warhammer online as well (though they never abandoned there sub model but did abandon development of the game) SWTOR was around that when it began its shift to F2P and is now ( some how ) even with that horrible example of a F2P system turned itself around and become stable. I could go on. The vast majority of MMO's released in this latest crop all peaked around the 2 mill mark then were declared failures, saw decline and switched models.

The question is Will Wildstar be able to buck the trend and break or sustain more than many others have before them. The sub fee model is not the safe road its the at best balzy option at worst the lets get what we can before we have to go B2P F2P road

[Deleted]

all of the above did not have 1m sustained subs.. they peaked and fell. That it not the same.

no1 said its the best road either.. i dont like buying subs with gold.. i would have prefered a freemium model myself but if the quality is there then i have no problem paying for the sub. If the quality isnt there then i probably wont play even when its free.

[waddlez]

SWTOR, Rifts, TSW, Warhammer online

Hmm, quick look at the publishers... EA, Founded by men from NCSoft and OH would you look at that EA, EA, EA.

Get a good gaming company who doesn't have the worst gaming company around them and they will be fine.

[Vexies]

http://mmodata.net/

Granted this is a bit outdated but its some hard numbers. As you can see SWTOR peaked just under 2, Aion as well, by all accounts Aion did much better yet switched to F2P. The problem is just how long does it have to be to be considered sustained? Not one of the current gen MMO's that released with a sub fee attained numbers fast enough for the men holding the check book to not panic and throw the F2P, B2P switch.

History is against it not for it succeeding

[Kelimbror]

History is against it not for it succeeding

That sort of rational thinking isn't appreciated around these parts, sir.

[Deleted]

http://mmodata.net/

Granted this is a bit outdated but its some hard numbers. As you can see SWTOR peaked just under 2, Aion as well, by all accounts Aion did much better yet switched to F2P. The problem is just how long does it have to be to be considered sustained? Not one of the current gen MMO's that released with a sub fee attained numbers fast enough for the men holding the check book to not panic and throw the F2P, B2P switch.

History is against it not for it succeeding

"The publisher claimed just after the game’s release in December that it needed to retain 500,000 subscribers to make Star Wars: The Old Republic profitable."

So Wildstar with half the budget SWTOR had, wont even need that. So a healthy 1 million subs that stay in the game will be more than enough.