[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Kelimbror]

But if this is true:



Then this is automatically false:

Not really... for multiple reasons.

1) The technical one, is that all current MMOs are just evolutions of EverQuest. This is typical of 2nd gen, traditional MMOs. None of these are clones of another as much as a rock CD isn't a Beatles clone. Sure they have guitars, drums, sing, and use effects...buuut...not the same.

2) The aesthetic is not the same, no matter how many people want to claim it is. Being computer friendly and not realistic(TSW) or hyper/fantasy realistic(TERA, GW2) does not make it the same. They have a similar color palette, though Wildstar's is actually brighter.

3) Tab target doesn't make a game a WoW clone.

4) Design is a much larger concept than what you see on the surface and even what you see in combat mechanics. How endgame is structured and rewards are layered, combined with how they want to present everything to you is what distinguishes traditional 2nd gen MMOs the most in the long run.

[Vespian]

Not really... for multiple reasons.

1) The technical one, is that all current MMOs are just evolutions of EverQuest. This is typical of 2nd gen, traditional MMOs. None of these are clones of another as much as a rock CD isn't a Beatles clone. Sure they have guitars, drums, sing, and use effects...buuut...not the same.

2) The aesthetic is not the same, no matter how many people want to claim it is. Being computer friendly and not realistic(TSW) or hyper/fantasy realistic(TERA, GW2) does not make it the same. They have a similar color palette, though Wildstar's is actually brighter.

3) Tab target doesn't make a game a WoW clone.

4) Design is a much larger concept than what you see on the surface and even what you see in combat mechanics. How endgame is structured and rewards are layered, combined with how they want to present everything to you is what distinguishes traditional 2nd gen MMOs the most in the long run.

When I say WoW-clone (personally) I see it more in general terms, rather than OMG ITS WOW. EQ-Clone never really made it. Everyone knows EQ preceeds WoW and everyone knows WoW was a clone of EQ, sort of.

While all your points are valid, I'm specifically referring to Demon saying OMG YOU BLIND PERSON, THIS IS TOTALLY NOT A WOW CLONE and then proceeds by finding wow-like attributes and naming them and specifically naming the free targeting as the primary reason why it's not a wowclone/wow-esque/EQ-eque game, which is rendered completely null and void by Aim-fucking-bot.

So while design and tab targeting or not are not necessarily reason to call it anything, Demon defended his statement with only one argument, combat targeting. In other words, what he says might not be wrong (although I might disagree), but the reason for saying so definitely turns out to be wrong.

[Edge-]

When I say WoW-clone (personally) I see it more in general terms, rather than OMG ITS WOW. EQ-Clone never really made it. Everyone knows EQ preceeds WoW and everyone knows WoW was a clone of EQ, sort of.

You'd better tell everyone then, because that still seems to be a fact that confuses a lot of people : P

[Vespian]

You'd better tell everyone then, because that still seems to be a fact that confuses a lot of people : P

You think my opinion of how the 'phrase' "WoW-Clone" should be interpreted is going to have any effect whatsoever on others? I'm amazed, I thought most people would want to put me in the ground before I open my mouth, or..grab my keyboard.

That's why I normally try to stay away from the word WoW-Clone..but if anything seems to deserve the title, it could definitely be W*. It's like WoW with a little cream.

OH NOES what did I start

[Kelimbror]

That's why I normally try to stay away from the word WoW-Clone..but if anything seems to deserve the title, it could definitely be W*. It's like WoW with a little cream.

This is said of every new MMO ever, even GW2 after people became disenchanted with the heart 'quests'. It's been wrong almost every time.

[llDemonll]

But if this is true:

Then this is automatically false:

After all:

I'm confused at what you're trying to argue. The two games are very different and I'm not contradicting myself in any way with those two arguments

[Vespian]

This is said of every new MMO ever, even GW2 after people became disenchanted with the heart 'quests'. It's been wrong almost every time.

Yeah except that I never did, which makes it more valid. To me. @ Demon; Aim-Bot just made your entire point go away ...

[Kelimbror]

Yeah except that I never did, which makes it more valid. To me.

ok *shrug*. We all are a part of the machine at some point. I've done similar things with other cliches. Still doesn't make it true ever. We should just assume we're always wrong about everything. Actually I'm not sure that would even be an assumption. It's pretty much given we're always wrong about something.

I'm probably wrong about this. Wrongception.

[llDemonll]

Yeah except that I never did, which makes it more valid. To me. @ Demon; Aim-Bot just made your entire point go away ...

Aside from the fact that play-wise it's still a very different game?

[RoninaThorstone]

Calling it a wowclone is just silly and mainly comes across as an attempt to troll people.

If you want to be accurate, call it a second generation MMO (assuming this targeting idea pans out... I am betting it will). Otherwise it's more like a generation 2.5ish MMO like GW2.

[Vespian]

Calling it a wowclone is just silly and mainly comes across as an attempt to troll people.

If you want to be accurate, call it a second generation MMO (assuming this targeting idea pans out... I am betting it will). Otherwise it's more like a generation 2.5ish MMO like GW2.

I'm going to call an MMO 2. or 3.something when the genre progresses as a whole. So far, this is even the case with Rift, all we have are sidesteps within the same box. None of the changes have left a permanent mark on MMO gaming. When one feature replaces an old feature, because it's simply not done anymore, that's when I consider calling it a new generation. This is not trolling, I just disagree with your assessment of what to call it.

The only thing we seem to be stuck with, different from classic quests, are dynamic events. Are those enough to classify it as the new age of mmo gaming? I think not. GW2 pretty much proves that going entirely without the exclamation marks feels actually far more like a grind than questing ever did, so once more, it's more of a sidestep, than a total takeover.

Wildstar is not going to change the MMO genre, nor is it going to leave a permanent mark on how MMO's will be brought to us in the future. How the usage of more visual spell templates that you need to dodge make Wildstar stand out compared to a wow-esque game is beyond me, but you are entitled to your opinion.

[RoninaThorstone]

I'm going to call an MMO 2. or 3.something when the genre progresses as a whole. So far, this is even the case with Rift, all we have are sidesteps within the same box. None of the changes have left a permanent mark on MMO gaming. When one feature replaces an old feature, because it's simply not done anymore, that's when I consider calling it a new generation. This is not trolling, I just disagree with your assessment of what to call it.

The only thing we seem to be stuck with, different from classic quests, are dynamic events. Are those enough to classify it as the new age of mmo gaming? I think not. GW2 pretty much proves that going entirely without the exclamation marks feels actually far more like a grind that questing ever did, so once more, it's more of a sidestep, than a total takeover.

Wildstar is not going to change the MMO genre, nor is it going to leave a permanent mark on how MMO's will be brought to us in the future. How the usage of more visual spell templates that you need to dodge make Wildstar stand out compared to a wow-esque game is beyond me, but you are entitled to your opinion.

That's fine... It's just that the language you are using isn't congruent with the common usage.

What is commonly held up as the difference between 2nd and 3rd generation MMOs is the combat (read, gameplay).
Everquest, WoW, Rift, Swtor, Lotro, Aion, ect are all 2nd generation MMOs whereas something like Tera, Nwo, Dragon prophet, Dragon nest, Vindictus, Firefall, Defiance ect are 3rd generation MMOs.
Combat in 2nd generation MMOs has a 'targeting' system (tab) that aims skills for you. Additionally, any aiming you have to do beyond 'facing your target' is along the XY axis (or 2 dimensional plane) whereas combat in a 3rd generation MMO requires the player to aim their attacks (usually with a cross hair) in a XZY axis. It's possible that movement will also take a similar transformation where jumping, flying, ect are incorporated into gameplay like boss mechanics in wow IE: "jump do avoid quake damage" in stone core or magisters terrace's 'swim to avoid fireballs' but rather than gimmicks, a constant part of positioning (firefall).

[Vespian]

That's fine... It's just that the language you are using isn't congruent with the common usage.

What is commonly held up as the difference between 2nd and 3rd generation MMOs is the combat (read, gameplay).
Everquest, WoW, Rift, Swtor, Lotro, Aion, ect are all 2nd generation MMOs whereas something like Tera, Nwo, Dragon prophet, Dragon nest, Vindictus, Firefall, Defiance ect are 3rd generation MMOs.
Combat in 2nd generation MMOs has a 'targeting' system (tab) that aims skills for you. Additionally, any aiming you have to do beyond 'facing your target' is along the XY axis (or 2 dimensional plane) whereas combat in a 3rd generation MMO requires the player to aim their attacks (usually with a cross hair) in a XZY axis. It's possible that movement will also take a similar transformation where jumping, flying, ect are incorporated into gameplay like boss mechanics in wow IE: "jump do avoid quake damage" in stone core or magisters terrace's 'swim to avoid fireballs' but rather than gimmicks, a constant part of positioning (firefall).

This is confirmed by law right? Or at least the entire internet as a whole?(sauce, with stamps pref.) Because mixing Shooters and MMO's is a gimmick. A trick, if you will. It doesn't do anything with the genre. Nothing new is being invented. They're AMMORPG's, like Diablo is an ARPG, different from the normal RPG.

A new generation, is when all new MMO's confirm to a new industry standard.

[RoninaThorstone]

A new generation, is when all new MMO's confirm to a new industry standard.

This is confirmed by law right? Or at least the entire internet as a whole?(sauce, with stamps pref.)

[Vespian]

This is confirmed by law right? Or at least the entire internet as a whole?(sauce, with stamps pref.)

Right, so you don't have any, thanks.

P.S. As per usual, I'm right.

[Valeron]

This is confirmed by law right? Or at least the entire internet as a whole?(sauce, with stamps pref.)

It is indeed the law

[RoninaThorstone]

Right, so you don't have any, thanks.

P.S. As per usual, I'm right.

You... Really don't understand anything I said. That's sort of sad (and a little funny)

[Vespian]

You... Really don't understand anything I said. That's sort of sad (and a little funny)

Of course I did. Choosing to ignore it due to the illogical nature of it though, is another thing.

[RoninaThorstone]

Of course I did. Choosing to ignore it due to the illogical nature of it though, is another thing.

Again, I really don't think you understand.

You are using second and, more importantly, third generation in a way that no one else is.

A new generation, is when all new MMO's confirm to a new industry standard.

Like I said, you can think this. Just don't expect anyone to understand you unless you go out of your way to explain that you have a different definition than everyone else.

[unholytestament]

So the lesson here is that we are allowed to call anything whatever we want by claiming that's how we choose to use those descriptors.