1. #9361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Yeah except it's not accurate. There are at least 3 people here with similar experience that can detail exactly how so. It operates no differently than WoW or Rift in regards to mob damage.
    Then these people were not part of the extensive testing and Discussion in regards to this subject that myself and several others took part in within the Beta and Beta forums.

    Melee characters benefit from strafing around mobs. It causes the the mob to constantly readjust its position, causing ability resets, which helps to reduce incoming white damage received. It also puts you at an advantage when needing to avoid telegraphs since you are already moving out of it as it appears.
    This is tested and proven by myself and many other players after a lot of discussion in the closed beta.
    Last edited by mmoc3f9c23ccd2; 2013-09-27 at 09:44 AM.

  2. #9362
    Herald of the Titans Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirve View Post
    Am i the only one who plays MMOs with a regular mouse and a regular keyboard just fine? o.O feeling lonely here.
    Yea, i do the same, having a 5 year old mouse and keyboard, which i bought for my first laptop while moving to the dorm. So pretty much do not understand all the hassle around
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  3. #9363
    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoldierr View Post
    Yea, i do the same, having a 5 year old mouse and keyboard, which i bought for my first laptop while moving to the dorm. So pretty much do not understand all the hassle around
    not everybody able to make some weird finger-dance to reach 40+ keybindings, is able to move perfectly and has its camera under perfect control to keep important things in the middle of the screen. in my humble opinion mmo-mouses or even gamepads providing a much more user-friendly / ergonomic excess to buttons.

    Sure, it can be done with normal mouse and keyboard, but i'm not that sufficient in my finger movement to blindly tapping [a]+[w] the same time i have to press [jump] and [0] for a skill while keeping track of the adds I'm kiting with my hunter :/ with the gamepad my thumb does have complete control about movement, my tiny about jumping while mouse is free to take control over my camera and I have still enough buttons in reach for other fingers to maintain my rotation =)

  4. #9364
    Herald of the Titans Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    I will be honest, i didn't think of that.

    Everyone should be forced to play Starcraft Brood War for few years online before allowed to enter any MMO!
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  5. #9365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirve View Post
    Am i the only one who plays MMOs with a regular mouse and a regular keyboard just fine? o.O feeling lonely here.
    Are there people who play it with something other than that???

  6. #9366
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirve View Post
    Am i the only one who plays MMOs with a regular mouse and a regular keyboard just fine? o.O feeling lonely here.
    Yeah I can't be bothered to switch to a cheaply made Razer Naga every time I decide to open a MMO instead of FPS,RTS,SIM,etc(rest of the games).

  7. #9367
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yowser View Post
    Then these people were not part of the extensive testing and Discussion in regards to this subject that myself and several others took part in within the Beta and Beta forums.



    This is tested and proven by myself and many other players after a lot of discussion in the closed beta.
    You keep thinking that. Meanwhile other people will keep respecting the NDA, even when we disagree with you. I'll clarify: The way you are explaining whatever it is you think is happening is falsely implying that this is any different than any other hotkey MMO.

    That's what you're being refuted with. Running in circles doesn't magically reset swing timers for mobs. They hit you regardless. The same thing happens in WoW. If you are a great circle strafer you can override the mobs priorities in a way that every now and then you'll take less damage overall than you would if you just stood there.

    It's not an element of gameplay added so that skilled players find some exceptional way to be invincible. It's just a design quirk in this style of enemy AI. In other words, implying it's somehow different than say WoW or Rift is what is wrong. It's nothing new.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarzi View Post
    *snip*
    ...I have great fears for how far you will rubber band the other way when you actually get to play the game. I felt like you half a year ago. Reality doesn't like to coincide with the magical scenarios we put in our heads. And as a general rule of thumb, hyping a game up to be the next WoW is dooming your experience with it to failure from the start.

    I'd dial it back to cautiously optimistic and just take it for what it is worth. I find a lot more enjoyment out of all MMOs that way.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-09-27 at 02:21 PM.
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  8. #9368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You keep thinking that. Meanwhile other people will keep respecting the NDA, even when we disagree with you. I'll clarify: The way you are explaining whatever it is you think is happening is falsely implying that this is any different than any other hotkey MMO.

    That's what you're being refuted with. Running in circles doesn't magically reset swing timers for mobs. They hit you regardless. The same thing happens in WoW. If you are a great circle strafer you can override the mobs priorities in a way that every now and then you'll take less damage overall than you would if you just stood there.

    It's not an element of gameplay added so that skilled players find some exceptional way to be invincible. It's just a design quirk in this style of enemy AI. In other words, implying it's somehow different than say WoW or Rift is what is wrong. It's nothing new.
    My original reply was in reference to the claims that Moving in Wildstar was pointless.

    I'm fully aware its a design quirk, and have never implied otherwise. However, It was shown to reduce total incoming white damage by 30-40%, along with the advantages it brings to avoiding Telegraphs by already being on the move whenever they are cast.

    I cant say its something I have ever noticed in WoW or Rift though. Its certainly far more prominent in Wildstar.

  9. #9369
    My original reply was in reference to the claims that Moving in Wildstar was pointless.
    Because it is, unless you are moving out of aoe or have a snare, moving is 100% pointless.

    I'm fully aware its a design quirk, and have never implied otherwise.
    I cant say its something I have ever noticed in WoW or Rift though.
    Hmmm?

    However, It was shown to reduce total incoming white damage by 30-40%
    Random numbers are random, there was no such topic on the beta forums. I remember starting a 7 page thread about white damage and telegraphs and that never came up. Nor did the NDA leekers from the youknowhwatsite showed a beta forum post of anything like that (they often posted tons of relevant posts from other players on the beta forums). AI behaved just like tab target AI, "kiting" in a circle has no relation to swing timer unless you are actually out of range.

  10. #9370
    If anything, it was because you were moving out of range. The mobs have a lot of difficulty detecting and compensating for range.

    I would call that an AI issue rather than a sign of action combat.
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  11. #9371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keren View Post
    not everybody able to make some weird finger-dance to reach 40+ keybindings, is able to move perfectly and has its camera under perfect control to keep important things in the middle of the screen. in my humble opinion mmo-mouses or even gamepads providing a much more user-friendly / ergonomic excess to buttons.

    Sure, it can be done with normal mouse and keyboard, but i'm not that sufficient in my finger movement to blindly tapping [a]+[w] the same time i have to press [jump] and [0] for a skill while keeping track of the adds I'm kiting with my hunter :/ with the gamepad my thumb does have complete control about movement, my tiny about jumping while mouse is free to take control over my camera and I have still enough buttons in reach for other fingers to maintain my rotation =)
    Wildstar will require like, 10 buttons to press tops. I mean sure.. yeah i guess gaming tech makes it easier but its really not that hard if you get used to it. I do my MMO rotations just fine, along with Keybinds for utility and ocasional abilities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    If anything, it was because you were moving out of range. The mobs have a lot of difficulty detecting and compensating for range.

    I would call that an AI issue rather than a sign of action combat.
    Didn't notice any sort of damage reduction from strafing around in my Stalker. I did on my Spellslinger, but only really because of this, being away from the mob half the time .

  12. #9372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirve View Post
    Am i the only one who plays MMOs with a regular mouse and a regular keyboard just fine? o.O feeling lonely here.
    No. I use a regular mouse and keyboard.

    I'm still really wondering how unavoidable white damage remotely translate to anything relating to action combat or even a hybrid.

  13. #9373
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    Do you mean that you believe white damage makes the combat not action combat?

    Or do you mean that it can still be action combat with white damage?

    I don't have an opinion either way, because according to some opinions in this thread I've never played a game that has "true" action combat, but then according to others, I have. So I kind of have no idea what people want to mean by action combat.
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  14. #9374
    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    No. I use a regular mouse and keyboard.

    I'm still really wondering how unavoidable white damage remotely translate to anything relating to action combat or even a hybrid.
    Unavoidable damage or unblockable damage is usually considered "not action" by the action MMO fans. Basically, having aggro is like having a DoT effect rather than being the target of attacks.

    Do I think this? Meh. I know what they mean and agree with it in principle. Combat on the player v mob side feels very dull compared to full action games where you are constantly dodging, blocking, moving ect. In player verse player it might be more fun. Who knows /shrug.
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  15. #9375
    Fluffy Kitten Remilia's Avatar
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    Part of action (positional) combat is meant so that well... your position matters. When you can't avoid it your position quite literally doesn't matter. Hybrid of it is obviously between tab target and action combat. You can argue that hybrid combat of takes from the white damage of tab target, but that's like... an in between of GW2 and tab target.
    No, red circles do not count, else FFXIV would be considered hybrid.

  16. #9376
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    red circles do not count, else FFXIV would be considered hybrid.
    So would WoW for that matter. There's only one full action combat game I've played and it is Tera. There are others from what I hear, but something like GW2 is not action combat. W* will be the exact same as GW2 in the fact that you have most attacks that will hit anything in it's range/shape, the mobs will hit you with white damage, and then there are some form of telegraphed specials.

    Actually W* is even less action combat than GW2 for the simple fact that GW2 dodges give you full immunity and you can still use targeted abilities without a target. Wildstar has some abilities that require you to have a target selected...the Esper is the only thing that comes to mind immediately from what I've seen, but it's there.
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  17. #9377
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    So would WoW for that matter. There's only one full action combat game I've played and it is Tera. There are others from what I hear, but something like GW2 is not action combat. W* will be the exact same as GW2 in the fact that you have most attacks that will hit anything in it's range/shape, the mobs will hit you with white damage, and then there are some form of telegraphed specials.

    Actually W* is even less action combat than GW2
    for the simple fact that GW2 dodges give you full immunity and you can still use targeted abilities without a target. Wildstar has some abilities that require you to have a target selected...the Esper is the only thing that comes to mind immediately from what I've seen, but it's there.
    But... In GW2 the ranged combat is all autoaimed. It's hard to say which one is more or less action combaty than the other. If that autoface feature can be abused then yeah. This will be less actiony hands down.

    We shall see...
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  18. #9378
    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    But... In GW2 the ranged combat is all autoaimed. It's hard to say which one is more or less action combaty than the other. If that autoface feature can be abused then yeah. This will be less actiony hands down.

    We shall see...
    It's just the mobs do the majority of damage via white damage and carbine wants you to build defensively with RNG defensive stats to counter this or group up. Imo they are pushing any sort of way to make you group. (loot is only if you are in a group if you share another persons mob, downscaling is only if you are in a group etc).

  19. #9379
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardarian View Post
    But... In GW2 the ranged combat is all autoaimed
    Those attacks go through enemies and don't require a target to use them though. Even the 'autoattack' can be fired off into nothing or simply aimed with your body without a target. In W*, some attacks literally require a target or they don't fire.
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  20. #9380
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Those attacks go through enemies and don't require a target to use them though. Even the 'autoattack' can be fired off into nothing or simply aimed with your body without a target. In W*, some attacks literally require a target or they don't fire.
    From what I remember. Espers was half aiming half tab target and spellslingers was full on aiming. However all ST heals were still tab target :l

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