1. #1721
    Wiiiiinnnn.
    They failed to mention how many of those zones are just level content and have no real purpose outside just that. Aka wasted resources really. I don't see the path system covering up enough of the zones to make them any more useful outside leveling.

  2. #1722
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    They failed to mention how many of those zones are just level content and have no real purpose outside just that. Aka wasted resources really. I don't see the path system covering up enough of the zones to make them any more useful outside leveling.
    Erm, how are they wasted if they're leveling resources? Leveling is a part of most RPG's.

  3. #1723
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    Erm, how are they wasted if they're leveling resources? Leveling is a part of most RPG's.
    I know but in my eyes it's still wasteful that you hit level cap and now the lower level zones are little to no use to you. You can look at WoW and see plenty of zones piled up over the 10 years become barren even for leveling since everything goes so fast.

    I just think it's cool if more games had downscaling like rift and gw2

  4. #1724
    Or, just not have levels

  5. #1725
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Or, just not have levels
    Irrelevant if there is a gear curve, that's why to me TSW with no levels seemed redundant because each zone you couldn't do without better gear, just like you can't do a lvl 25 zone at lvl 5.

  6. #1726
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I know but in my eyes it's still wasteful that you hit level cap and now the lower level zones are little to no use to you. You can look at WoW and see plenty of zones piled up over the 10 years become barren even for leveling since everything goes so fast.

    I just think it's cool if more games had downscaling like rift and gw2
    I think the game is going to be a little alt-centric. You can't change paths once you pick one so if you want to do all the content you have to reroll. It's a bit of waste if you want to play only one toon but gives decent replay value for others. Its seems like that's what they're going for over down shifting.

  7. #1727
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    I think the game is going to be a little alt-centric. You can't change paths once you pick one so if you want to do all the content you have to reroll. It's a bit of waste if you want to play only one toon but gives decent replay value for others. Its seems like that's what they're going for over down shifting.
    You can't have both because....?

    I'm not saying without downscaling it would fail but games have been better off with it giving more replay value for already leveled characters and it's more elder game. Elder game being work they already did but it's still meaningful? Fucking brilliant.

  8. #1728
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Irrelevant if there is a gear curve, that's why to me TSW with no levels seemed redundant because each zone you couldn't do without better gear, just like you can't do a lvl 25 zone at lvl 5.
    what about something like the original guild wars, where leveling was just a tutorial and was only about 5% of the game if that. So while that leveling content would be wasted there would be very little waste in comparison to the rest of the game.

  9. #1729
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I know but in my eyes it's still wasteful that you hit level cap and now the lower level zones are little to no use to you. You can look at WoW and see plenty of zones piled up over the 10 years become barren even for leveling since everything goes so fast.

    I just think it's cool if more games had downscaling like rift and gw2
    It's a game with linear progression. Any game with linear progression is going to make older zones/content "obsolete". You can do what games like GW2/EQ2/Rift do and mentor down to do old content, but the content still isn't really "level appropriate".

    That's the nature of linear progression, it's planned into the design that much of the game will cease to be used after a brief period of time. A game like EQ1 or WoW has far, far more "obsolete" content than relevant content at any given time, and with each new piece of content, more of it becomes "obsolete".

    What you seem to be looking for is a game with purely horizontal progression. No levels, no power increases, no significant upwards advancement. There are a few games like that out there like that, but it's far from popular because rewards make people happy. If people don't feel like they're growing in power and progressing, they're generally not going to stick around in numbers for all that long.

  10. #1730
    It's a game with linear progression. Any game with linear progression is going to make older zones/content "obsolete". You can do what games like GW2/EQ2/Rift do and mentor down to do old content, but the content still isn't really "level appropriate".
    I'm aware it's still not level appropriate but it becomes just as relevant to elder zones.

    what about something like the original guild wars, where leveling was just a tutorial and was only about 5% of the game if that. So while that leveling content would be wasted there would be very little waste in comparison to the rest of the game.
    You said it yourself, the actual leveling process was almost non existent which I liked about in gw1. I consider it a different beast though in comparison to mmo's like wildstar and gw2

  11. #1731
    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    I think the game is going to be a little alt-centric. You can't change paths once you pick one so if you want to do all the content you have to reroll. It's a bit of waste if you want to play only one toon but gives decent replay value for others. Its seems like that's what they're going for over down shifting.
    Actually one thing they were pretty clear on was that no matter what path you pick you have access to do all the things the other paths can do, the only thing with the paths is that if you are doing something off your path your xp return will be lower than the xp return doing things on your path. The reason for this was that they don't want to create a game where friends can't play together because they chose different paths.

  12. #1732
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Actually one thing they were pretty clear on was that no matter what path you pick you have access to do all the things the other paths can do, the only thing with the paths is that if you are doing something off your path your xp return will be lower than the xp return doing things on your path. The reason for this was that they don't want to create a game where friends can't play together because they chose different paths.
    This isn't entirely correct. They actually had complaints from alpha that you didn't get enough diversity from the other paths, so they added some cross quests that multiple paths get to do, but you can't actually experience different path quests unless you are grouped. So while you probably can see everything if you play in a group constantly, you will not have access to do the other path quests on your own at any time.
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  13. #1733
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Irrelevant if there is a gear curve, that's why to me TSW with no levels seemed redundant because each zone you couldn't do without better gear, just like you can't do a lvl 25 zone at lvl 5.
    Depends on how much of a gear curve there is.
    If you can do all the content in stock gear, then it's not important.
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  14. #1734
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Graaah. What phase of beta are they in? There's no videos of people playing the beta except for ZAM official/MMOhut, so I assume there's an NDA up. Also, did they how many 5 man dungeons there will be at release?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 06:38 AM ----------

    Just read that 20 mans and 40 man raids will be completely different raids. There won't be a 20 man and 40 man version of the same raid as I thought they were going to do. Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, it's nice that they won't have to struggle with balancing 20 man and 40 man versions for the same raid, but on the other hand it kinda sucks that people will have to raid with the size they don't prefer to experience all the raid content. I personally will do both, but I can see other people not being happy with this.
    Last edited by Loaf Lord; 2013-04-06 at 06:38 AM.

  15. #1735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphlord View Post
    Graaah. What phase of beta are they in? There's no videos of people playing the beta except for ZAM official/MMOhut, so I assume there's an NDA up. Also, did they how many 5 man dungeons there will be at release?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 06:38 AM ----------

    Just read that 20 mans and 40 man raids will be completely different raids. There won't be a 20 man and 40 man version of the same raid as I thought they were going to do. Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, it's nice that they won't have to struggle with balancing 20 man and 40 man versions for the same raid, but on the other hand it kinda sucks that people will have to raid with the size they don't prefer to experience all the raid content. I personally will do both, but I can see other people not being happy with this.
    As far as I can recall they are still in the F&F, friends and family, phase. Not sure if they are even calling it Beta yet so it might still be, technically, Alpha. Supposedly the Closed Beta, NDA kind, will begin within the next month or two.
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  16. #1736
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Blagh, the games more far away than I thought.

  17. #1737
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphlord View Post
    Blagh, the games more far away than I thought.
    Still before end of year, last I heard, so quite a ways away still. Not to mention that I have not caught any delay signs yet. And we often get one or two of those. So I would not be too surprised if it ended up being this time next year before WSO launches.
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  18. #1738
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    Still before end of year, last I heard, so quite a ways away still. Not to mention that I have not caught any delay signs yet. And we often get one or two of those. So I would not be too surprised if it ended up being this time next year before WSO launches.
    Idk....saying the two remaining classes won't be available with the initial launch of beta is a pretty sketchy indicator if you ask me. That means they won't be done by then at the least, which is...troubling.
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  19. #1739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Idk....saying the two remaining classes won't be available with the initial launch of beta is a pretty sketchy indicator if you ask me. That means they won't be done by then at the least, which is...troubling.
    I think it's more of an indicator about the beta starting soon, rather than what the game is like when it actually launches.
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  20. #1740
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Idk....saying the two remaining classes won't be available with the initial launch of beta is a pretty sketchy indicator if you ask me. That means they won't be done by then at the least, which is...troubling.
    I don't think that's necessarily so. They have the majority of races/classes, which if it's anything like standard MMO procedure (and I dont see why it wouldn't be) they are all invariably funnelled into the same content after the first few hours of play. The most important content is available to be tested. Comparatively a new race/class and all the things associated with it like a starter zone are easily tested and fine tuned in a shorter time span.

    From a project management standpoint I don't see any problem with their decision to start beta without them. Keep in my mind we don't know the state of completion they are in. They could be 95% done and not in at the start of beta just as easily as they could be 0% done.

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