[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[Immitis]

1) Initial wow wasn't so 'easy' and 'casual'...so it didn't turn mainstream because of that at all
2) It's not the norm as in, it's not what most games exist as....but whether we want to admit it or not, it is dominant. Which means it really is the norm.

Where's the proof for that? Judging from other MMO sales, revenue, and subs...the MMO genre has been growing at a steady pace. I'm not sure wtf WoW has to do with anything. More people are playing MMO's than ever...period.

actually yes wow was... it always was... and also besides initial sales most mmos barely have a million subs

---------- Post added 2013-03-13 at 08:03 PM ----------

Not even remotely close to being true. Tera alone has over 1 million players in the EU, which is bigger than EQ1 was at its peak pre-WoW launch.

The MMO genre has actually grown far past what WoW grew it. Since WoW has been on the slight decline from its peak, the MMO genre on the whole has continued to grow in terms of size and revenue.

no it hasnt. all mmos as a whole have seen declines, wow isnt in decline mmos are

[Edge-]

no it hasnt. all mmos as a whole have seen declines, wow isnt in decline mmos are

Market data disagrees with you and I'm inclined to believe market data. Not trying to be rude, but you're objectively wrong.

[Kelimbror]

actually yes wow was... it always was... and also besides initial sales most mmos barely have a million subs

My anecdotal experience and actual data disagrees with you.

no it hasnt. all mmos as a whole have seen declines, wow isnt in decline mmos are

Uhh yeah, what Edge said. The market is constantly growing. You are simply wrong. And I don't care whether I'm rude or not.

[Immitis]

Market data disagrees with you and I'm inclined to believe market data. Not trying to be rude, but you're objectively wrong.

im not wrong. all data shows mmos being on a decline especially in eastern countries

[Edge-]

im not wrong. all data shows mmos being on a decline especially in eastern countries

http://www.superdataresearch.com/glo...-exceeds-12bn/
http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/
http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/t...opportunities/
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Chi...012-43073.html

Some links that disagree with you.

[Immitis]

http://www.superdataresearch.com/glo...-exceeds-12bn/
http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/
http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/t...opportunities/
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Chi...012-43073.html

Some links that disagree with you.

all of those show a decline

[Edge-]

all of those show a decline

"The year-on-year growth in Western markets ranges from 14% in the US to 24% in Germany totaling $2.9bn and $700m respectively."
"Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs. This is 3% higher than last year."
"Our data clearly shows that the market for MMO games is growing in terms of number of gamers, share of people paying and money spent."
"Last year China made a breezy $6 billion from their more than 150 million local gamers, shooting past the forecast that they were expected to pull in only $5 billion."

I could pull some more quotes directly out of the links if you would like.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/tera-ad...o-play-6405262

There's a bit of temporary growth from a business model change too. (Yes the numbers will decrease, however it shows the kind of draw changing to a business model with no barrier for entry can have).

[ShimmerSwirl]

Current trends (WoW heroics going back to being super easy after Cata made them difficult, the continued decrease in difficulty across content in other games as well) disagree. The average person likes completing things and "winning" more than they like overcoming an extremely difficult obstacle.

You put entirely too much stock in 'current trends'.

[Edge-]

You put entirely too much stock in 'current trends'.

Sorry if I base my observations/opinions off of what I see happening within the market?

[Snugglees]

Well someone's being a negative nancy, haha.
Anyway, did you guys get any questions answered in the AMAA? I haven't checked it out yet. Can't wait to see what the other 2 races are, oooh and to see the armour.

[Deleted]

If people think that Wildstar will become WoW 2, then people are in for a big disapointment. Dont get me wrong, I am super hyped about Wildstar and look forward to it as much it is possible, but WoW is big because it is big. WoW is the VHS (video format) of MMOs. It become big, not because it was the best, not because it was first, it become and stay big because it was the first that was commonly spread. It took more than 20 years before some other other format (DVD) could challenge VHS and even seven more years before it passed VHS.

I really think Wildstar will become a great game, and I have really big hopes for it, but never ever think it will come even close to WoWs numbers. Wildstar doesnt need that to become a successful game.

[Kelimbror]

If people think that Wildstar will become WoW 2, *SNIP* but never ever think it will come even close to WoWs numbers. Wildstar doesnt need that to become a successful game.

I think you are misunderstanding what that statement means. It doesn't mean it's going to have 10 million subscribers. It doesn't mean it's going to be the most played MMO. It simply means it looks like it's going to have a lot of similarities in how accessible it is, how the aesthetic will connect with the audience and also age very well, and that much is vastly different than most MMOs that have launched in the last few years.

That's it. Placing anymore weight on that statement is false.

WoW is big because it is big. WoW is the VHS (video format) of MMOs. It become big, not because it was the best, not because it was first, it become and stay big because it was the first that was commonly spread.

Disregarding the fact that talking about technology is not even apples to oranges, but apples to squirrels, you are completely wrong. It's not like it just came into being out of the aether and it is because it was. That's silly. Why was it so commonly spread? Was it random? Video games aren't created by big bang theories.

In fact, if you want to use your comparison (if we use the most basic similarity which is just how anything in creation is developed), then VHS existed for so long because nothing better was created. It just wasn't. You know what happened when something better was finally created? VHS rapidly became obsolete. It's a fallacy to say all of this just happened 'simply because' when reality is that the product is replaced when a better product comes out. 'Better' can have several implications depending on what actual things we're talking about ofc.

[ShimmerSwirl]

I think you are misunderstanding what that statement means. It doesn't mean it's going to have 10 million subscribers. It doesn't mean it's going to be the most played MMO. It simply means it looks like it's going to have a lot of similarities in how accessible it is, how the aesthetic will connect with the audience and also age very well, and that much is vastly different than most MMOs that have launched in the last few years.

That's it. Placing anymore weight on that statement is false.


Disregarding the fact that talking about technology is not even apples to oranges, but apples to squirrels, you are completely wrong. It's not like it just came into being out of the aether and it is because it was. That's silly. Why was it so commonly spread? Was it random? Video games aren't created by big bang theories.

In fact, if you want to use your comparison (if we use the most basic similarity which is just how anything in creation is developed), then VHS existed for so long because nothing better was created. It just wasn't. You know what happened when something better was finally created? VHS rapidly became obsolete. It's a fallacy to say all of this just happened 'simply because' when reality is that the product is replaced when a better product comes out. 'Better' can have several implications depending on what actual things we're talking about ofc.

Actually betamax was superior in a technical sense, but lets not let facts get in the way!

[SirRobin]

Actually betamax was superior in a technical sense, but lets not let facts get in the way!

I still think Betamax should have won. VHS hacked!

Remember when "VHS or Betamax" was a pickup line?

[Flaks]

Current trends (WoW heroics going back to being super easy after Cata made them difficult, the continued decrease in difficulty across content in other games as well) disagree. The average person likes completing things and "winning" more than they like overcoming an extremely difficult obstacle.

That's the WoW playerbase. Even though a lot of WoW players are going to try out Wildstar, they can't just cater 110% to their needs. The game NEEDS to have it's own personality in order to succeed.

[Kelimbror]

Actually betamax was superior in a technical sense, but lets not let facts get in the way!

Since I saw someone else quote you, please let's twist words into 'facts' some more!

'Better' can have several implications depending on what actual things we're talking about ofc.

What Sony did not take into account was what the consumers wanted. While Betamax was believed to be the superior format in the minds of the public and press (due to excellent marketing by Sony), consumers really wanted an affordable VCR (a VHS often cost hundreds of dollars less than a Betamax);^[5] Sony believed that having better quality recordings was the key to success, and that consumers would be willing to pay a higher retail price for this, whereas it soon became clear that consumer desire was focused more intently on recording time, lower retail price, compatibility with other machines for sharing (as VHS was becoming the format in the majority of homes), brand loyalty to companies who licensed VHS (RCA, Magnavox, Zenith, Quasar, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, even JVC itself, et al.), and compatibility for easy transfer of information.^[6]

Your personal opinion of the situation is irrelevant.


Anyone else see anything that caught their eye on the AMA? Overall it was some really good feedback about PvP and combat. Especially the balancing of abilities between PvP/PvE seemingly static and beta will have a 10 skill slot bar. As much as I love having 100 thousand abilities, after playing GW2 I realize that ability bloat really just clogs the game down...especially in the UI.

I especially like when you can build your character from a selection of spells, making choices matter beyond talent trees and whatnot. It also seems like a much more intuitive system than a standard talent tree. You see your abilities, that's what your character has. You don't have to do weird behind the scenes math or know about special procs and interactions.

Though maybe Wildstar will have that too, idk.

[Mmoplayer111]

Starting to slide more off the rails here.

WoW is big because it was: Accessible, Fun, Stylized, easy to learn but did have a mastery element, immersive, you could solo but also could level with others, based on an already huge franchise that many people really loved.

The reason why people leave WoW is simple, new things. The reason why people come back is simple, the new things don't live up to the hype or just don't play as well as WoW does.

I am hoping that Wildstar does really well, I like what I see so far, time will tell tho.

[Enjeh]

[RoninaThorstone]

1:13 = hellreaver?


:X

Anyways. Hopefully beta starts soon.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Since I saw someone else quote you, please let's twist words into 'facts' some more!





Your personal opinion of the situation is irrelevant.


Anyone else see anything that caught their eye on the AMA? Overall it was some really good feedback about PvP and combat. Especially the balancing of abilities between PvP/PvE seemingly static and beta will have a 10 skill slot bar. As much as I love having 100 thousand abilities, after playing GW2 I realize that ability bloat really just clogs the game down...especially in the UI.

I especially like when you can build your character from a selection of spells, making choices matter beyond talent trees and whatnot. It also seems like a much more intuitive system than a standard talent tree. You see your abilities, that's what your character has. You don't have to do weird behind the scenes math or know about special procs and interactions.

Though maybe Wildstar will have that too, idk.

Gratz on quoting a block of text from a random website concerning a topic you were ignorant about until today.