Prot Paladin

[hordeftw92]

Ok, so me and my GM were doing a couple heroics for shits and giggles and I was healing and he was tanking. My main spec is Prot and my OS is Holy so I'm not amazing at healing, but i can effectively heal a dungeon group or raid. He was on his alt which was a Prot paladin sitting at about ilvl 352 or so and my tank is ilvl 368 and as where i eat alot more hits then he does I didn't have to heal him as much as I thought i would be. Turns out his talent tree is a lot different than mine and he uses seal of insight. I always have seal of truth on for aggro but lately I havent seen a single mob switch targets on me with me only using Hammer of Righteousness and sit around 8-10k dps on trash pulls without using consecration. So I've been thinking of trying out seal of insight, what do you think? Also he said he was getting a proc for devine light as I do in my heal spec?????? anyone know anything about that?? O.o

[Affenkatzen18]

Link your Armorys and lets have a look

[zcks]

While it can help your survivability a bit over the course of a fight it's generally better to use seal of truth because of the glyph for extra exp.

This is because it greatly reduces the chance your crusader strike or hammer of the righteous will be parried/dodged/blocked & thus helps to ensure more consistent holy power generation.

The only times I would suggest not using it is if your easily exp caped without it & will be way ahead on threat but need the extra survivability boost because your trying shit you haven't got on farm.

[Deleted]

On Divine Light - that is bullshit, the talent which does a DL proc is too deep into the Holy tree to take as Prot spec, and even if you could take it it only procs off of Holy Shock and only Holy Pallies have that spell. He might be getting Ardent Defender proc or Holy Light+300% proc, those are completely different things though and neither of them will heal you mid-pull.

As for Seal of Insight, it does help on healing. It does not help a whole lot so it really shouldn't make a big difference. Sure if you have zero threat issues then you can get away with using SoI but it shouldn't make much of a difference. If he took less damage than you thought he would it's likely because he was just playing well. Simple skill, such as proper CD usage, interrupts, stuns and mob positioning can make huge differences in a 5 man. A well placed HW stun alone can turn some of the hardest pulls in Cata 5 mans into cakewalk.

Finally if his spec was very different from yours you should link them both to get feedback. There really shouldn't be much of a difference in specs between 2 Prot Pallies, the majority if survival talents in the Prot tree are mandatory and shouldn't vary between specs.

[Deleted]

holy power and so in effect lost WoG's = x
healing benefit from seal of insight <x

WoG can't be used as an emergency heal if you don;t ahve he holy pwoer for it and not using truth means your not geting enough power to use it as much as you would want to.

insight healing is also a passive ocasional proc which will often overheal wog you won't spam randomly and overheal with.

the damg lost from truth and the fact that insight is such a puny heal and not when you want it (like the wog's you got with truth) means stick with truth.

[Deleted]

holy power and so in effect lost WoG's = x
healing benefit from seal of insight <x

WoG can't be used as an emergency heal if you don;t ahve he holy pwoer for it and not using truth means your not geting enough power to use it as much as you would want to.

insight healing is also a passive ocasional proc which will often overheal wog you won't spam randomly and overheal with.

the damg lost from truth and the fact that insight is such a puny heal and not when you want it (like the wog's you got with truth) means stick with truth.

You can't use SoT for healing purposes. That whole Exp = HoPo = WoG argument is nonsense, SoI is the healing glyph if you wanna heal use SoI. The 5%+healing alone from the glyph will be more beneficial to WoG than the extra expertise. It'll give you a ton more HPS than what you will see as SoT.

You might have had a point back when WoG had no CD, but with the way it is now you'll get the 3 HoPo back before the CD is up even with 0 hit and exp, so if you're going for a pure self healing build then SoI is 100% the better choice. The only reason to use SoT is for DPS, it is NOT more benefitial to your healing than SoI.

[DerSenf]

I don't think you loose any WoGs when using SoI. After all, WoG has a 20 second cooldown, you really should be able to land 3 CS/HotR/GCAvS during that time. If not, RNG hates you and probably wants you to die regardless of what you do.
The only thing you loose when not using SoT is threat and the HoPo to use SotR more frequently, which also is thread. Who ever says you loose healing because you have less expertise with SoI does not think about the cd of WoG.

That being said, i still would use SoT in any situation other then soloing old stuff or helping a bad geared healer keep you up in 5-mans. The trade off doesn't seem that good to me, and even if the extra damage from SoT is small, it helps and you will definitively notice it when using SoI.

[Deleted]

You can't use SoT for healing purposes. That whole Exp = HoPo = WoG argument is nonsense, SoI is the healing glyph if you wanna heal use SoI. The 5%+healing alone from the glyph will be more beneficial to WoG than the extra expertise. It'll give you a ton more HPS than what you will see as SoT.

You might have had a point back when WoG had no CD, but with the way it is now you'll get the 3 HoPo back before the CD is up even with 0 hit and exp, so if you're going for a pure self healing build then SoI is 100% the better choice. The only reason to use SoT is for DPS, it is NOT more benefitial to your healing than SoI.

Healing will undoubtedly improve with SoI glyphed and buffed. Threat issues however will be far more noticeable than the OP thinks , especially when you start to get 4+ parried CS's in a row. Not only is that no HoPo, that's next to no TPS either, and a 500% buff to fuck all, is not much.

[Zankoku]

Since the threat hotfix, mobs stick easier to tanks, even using SoI.

In your post, you said you hit 8-10k dps. For melee to pull aggro off of your target, they would have to do 44k-55k dps. Ranged would have to pull 52k-65k dps to pull off of you.

[ocping]

I ran a few randoms with SoI and it's coming out pretty good but I do notice more dodge/parries since 10 expertise is not small amount.

That said, SoT is better on bosses. Feel free to SoI on trash though, since they're same level and don't require that much expertise.

[Deleted]

Healing will undoubtedly improve with SoI glyphed and buffed. Threat issues however will be far more noticeable than the OP thinks , especially when you start to get 4+ parried CS's in a row. Not only is that no HoPo, that's next to no TPS either, and a 500% buff to fuck all, is not much.

Of course, but that's a whole different argument. My point was that if you want purely healing then it makes no sense to go for SoT just because of WoG. SoT is the DPS/threat glyph plain and simple. The reason we use it is because it's a very big DPS boost whereas SoI is very minor healing.

[Deleted]

I've recently made the switch to prioritizing SoI/WoG; just a word of caution for raiders:

You'll keep threat fine when you're solo tanking but on tank switch fights you will struggle keeping agro after taunting (unless the other tank is a SoI/WoG prot pally I suppose). I'd still recommend glyphing for the +10 expertise and switching to SoT for the pull and when taunting.