Pokémon!

[Ryve]

Erm.

So it isn't blindingly obvious that the colours hadn't been decided upon, and that instead they merely said "this is what the legendary will look like, now colour it in". My apologies for not mentioning the issue was in the colouring, I forget the level of intelligence I'm dealing with. It was not a "finished" Ho-Oh.

I know, that's why I said "that's what the M stands for." Don't get all ellipsis on me, boy.

From what I'm seeing in this thread, it would come as no surprise.

Except they did. Most of the generation 2 pokemon and features were cut from the original and saved for later.
But do please go on. You're absolutely right about and clearly know everything.

Evidence beyond fan speculation?

Infracted: Please post respectfully, there is no need for insults

[Skelington]

Evidence beyond fan speculation?

Pokemon are listed in order of creation in the first game's pokedex with empty numbers filled by Missingno.s that later appear on pokemon in the second generation games, and Missingno.s that appear on r/b/y games connected to g/s/c will show the gen2 pokemon corresponding to the number.

[-Ethos-]

So it isn't blindingly obvious that the colours hadn't been decided upon, and that instead they merely said "this is what the legendary will look like, now colour it in". My apologies for not mentioning the issue was in the colouring, I forget the level of intelligence I'm dealing with. It was not a "finished" Ho-Oh.

Ignoring the snide remarks, I think its beyond coincidental they happened to give it a glowing aura matching the video game version it would end up being a mascot to.

[Ryve]

Pokemon are listed in order of creation in the first game's pokedex with empty numbers filled by Missingno.s that later appear on pokemon in the second generation games, and Missingno.s that appear on r/b/y games connected to g/s/c will show the gen2 pokemon corresponding to the number.


But hey, if this is all you can come up with to say it's wrong. Skelington isn't one to judge.

Missingno was one of the programming glitches, largely thought to be a Kangaskhan that evolved from Marowak that was never deleted from the game... Which actually makes a lot of sense. Different numbering systems on the newer Pokedexs don't "prove" anything. I know of a lot of psychics who brag about having predicted major natural disasters after the fact.

What do you mean "if this is all you can come up with"? It's blatantly obvious. The fact that you people want to believe otherwise does not alter the reality of the matter.

Ignoring the snide remarks, I think its beyond coincidental they happened to give it a glowing aura matching the video game version it would end up being a mascot to.

Given it was featured years before the video game version... Yeah, funny that. It's almost like they based Ho-Oh on the legendary Pokemon (which possibly wasn't even named at the time) that Ash saw when he began his journey.

[Skelington]

Missingno was one of the programming glitches, largely thought to be a Kangaskhan that evolved from Marowak that was never deleted from the game... Which actually makes a lot of sense. Different numbering systems on the newer Pokedexs don't "prove" anything. I know of a lot of psychics who brag about having predicted major natural disasters after the fact.

What do you mean "if this is all you can come up with"? It's blatantly obvious. The fact that you people want to believe otherwise does not alter the reality of the matter.

Given it was featured years before the video game version... Yeah, funny that. It's almost like they based Ho-Oh on the legendary Pokemon (which possibly wasn't even named at the time) that Ash saw when he began his journey.

Skelington didn't say anything about newer pokedexes. His humblest apologies that he didn't differentiate between the numbers you see and internal coding. There's more than one Missingno., and Cubone-Kangaskhan theory is just fan speculation.
Ho-oh is also one of the pokemon coded in the first game. It being solid gold in the anime doesn't mean much of anything.

[-Ethos-]

Given it was featured years before the video game version... Yeah, funny that. It's almost like they based Ho-Oh on the legendary Pokemon (which possibly wasn't even named at the time) that Ash saw when he began his journey.

Considering the anime didnt debut until over a year after Red and Green were released in Japan i dont think it really matters whether or not it was a proto-pokemon or Ho-oh. They obviously were working on the next generation of games whilst the anime was in development after the success of the first games. The fact remains they've planned the pokemon, the games and the stories out ahead of time constantly (as all game developers, writes etc. do) , as evidenced by pokemon like Gastrodon originally being part of the Gen3 lineup before being pushed back to Gen4.

[Loaf]

Do you even think before you post, or does the shit just dribble out? What hatred for Nintendo? What love of MS/Sony? Actually, I just remembered I've seen you post before, and it was of similar "quality". Don't bother trying to explain yourself.

Do tell me why you're talking of people buying 'anything they shit out' then. Enlighten me o'mighty prophet of gaming. Sounds like hatred to me. Otherwise you'd talk like a civilized human being. The love of ms/sony comes from hatred for nintendo. Either you're one of them or you're one of those who turned on Nintendo. Or maybe you're just full of loathing and hate anything that other people like. Idk. I would love to hear the reasoning I mentioned in the first sentence though.

[Ryve]

Skelington didn't say anything about newer pokedexes. His humblest apologies that he didn't differentiate between the numbers you see and internal coding. There's more than one Missingno., and Cubone-Kangaskhan theory is just fan speculation.
Ho-oh is also one of the pokemon coded in the first game. It being solid gold in the anime doesn't mean much of anything.

Fan speculation that makes a lot of sense, given the similar appearance between baby Kangaskhan and Cubone/the fact that Missingno evolves into Kangaskhan... Aside from that, where is there any evidence of Ho-Oh being coded into the original Pokedex? It being solid gold in the anime suggests it had not yet been completed yet.

I'd highly doubt Ho-Oh of all being planned for the first batch, given Moltres meant there was already a legendary Phoenix style Pokémon.

Considering the anime didnt debut until over a year after Red and Green were released in Japan i dont think it really matters whether or not it was a proto-pokemon or Ho-oh. They obviously were working on the next generation of games whilst the anime was in development after the success of the first games. The fact remains they've planned the pokemon, the games and the stories out ahead of time constantly (as all game developers, writes etc. do) , as evidenced by pokemon like Gastrodon originally being part of the Gen3 lineup before being pushed back to Gen4.

Err... And Gold/Silver weren't released for more than a year after the anime...

At the time, they wouldn't have known how big Pokemon would become. It could have vanished into obscurity before Ash ever collected the Kanto badges. I think you will find once it had an established fan base they were able to start planning ahead - if the chances of getting there are looking bleak, the budget won't allow for those kind of man hours. As for Gastrodon, I can only assume they'd hit the "lame" looking Pokemon budget for that generation, so decided to hold it back for next time. But it's pretty obvious that by now if they're planning on releasing another 100 or so Pokemon in the next 2 gens, that they'd have the budget to have the creative team/artists working on it.

[wariofan1]

Ho-Oh being solid gold was probably to emphasize its status and because the Pokémon wasn't known to others yet. Pokémon like Girafarig, Ampharos and Ho-Oh were supposed to be in Pokémon Red, but was cut, sketches from the designers goes to prove that. I think it was something like 180 Pokémon that was planned to be in the game, but was cut for whatever reason.

Edit: Here's an interview, apparently there were 190 Pokémon originally:

"So at the worlds this year I decided to ask Shigeki Morimoto, the guy who made Mew, about it. Since I asked him at the autograph table, where he would have his translator, I didn't have long so I can pretty much outline the exchange as this:

Me: "So in Red and Green, were there originally exactly 190 Pokémon?"

*Translator relays to Morimoto; he sort of jumps in his chair enthusiastically (lol) and seems very happy, grinning at me*

Translator: "Yes; we decided to save the rest of the designs for later"

Me: "So for example Ho-Oh was made for Red and Green first? Since it was in the first episode of the anime?"

*he hears Ho-Oh and looks confused, then then when the translator says the rest to him he remains the same*

Translator: "No, not Ho-Oh. He wasn't made earlier."

And then I say domo arigato and get rushed out by the queue building behind me, heheh. However what he said about Ho-Oh just doesn't make sense so I'm guessing that was an error in the translation. Since Ho-Oh is #49 in the list and appears in anime episode 1 it obviously had been made by that time so he probably tried to say Ho-Oh wasn't made for Red and Green, and was just in there with no real intention of keeping it in."

And some of the sketches I talked about:





So that's Girafarig, Chikorita and Qwilfish if anyone is wondering.

[Taurenburger]

Ho-Oh being solid gold was probably to emphasize its status and because the Pokémon wasn't known to others yet. Pokémon like Girafarig, Ampharos and Ho-Oh were supposed to be in Pokémon Red, but was cut, sketches from the designers goes to prove that. I think it was something like 180 Pokémon that was planned to be in the game, but was cut for whatever reason.

Hmm, this makes sense. Why else would there be a pokemon, unknown to us untill the second generation, to appear in the very first episode of the pokemon anime?

[Loaf]

Aliens.

[Deleted]

Yeah like someone above said. They already thought of way more than 151 Pokemon when the first game came out. But they could only fit 151 in the game. They basically ran out of space.

[Calill]

Just throwing this out there

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_index_number_%28Generation_I%29

The list is data-mined from the original games that shows there were 190 pokemon in the original game yet 39 of those data entries were deleted and traces of them that still existed in the original game became missingo.
All of those 39 removed from the original game appeared as gen 2 pokemon, Ho-oh is listed there as number 52.

It was also confirmed by one of the developers that 190 were created for the original game, finally I believe one of the developers stated that they often deal with hundreds of different pokemon designs but they are forced to draw the line at one point and some pokemon do not make the cut, though they do often save designs that they liked for later games.

[twinkleblur]

Does no one love sweet Meganium? While speaking of Meganium does anyone always try to get a female Chikorita when choosing grass as the Gen II starter? A male Chikorita just seems weird.

meganium honestly is my least favorite starter. infact expect for cindaquil and his family tree...after there 1st evolution...they just didnt feel as powerful.

[Deleted]

meganium honestly is my least favorite starter. infact expect for cindaquil and his family tree...after there 1st evolution...they just didnt feel as powerful.

But Cyndaquil is so cute

But yeah I don't like meganium, only evolved starters I like less are Emboar and Serperior

[Ryve]

Ho-Oh being solid gold was probably to emphasize its status and because the Pokémon wasn't known to others yet. Pokémon like Girafarig, Ampharos and Ho-Oh were supposed to be in Pokémon Red, but was cut, sketches from the designers goes to prove that. I think it was something like 180 Pokémon that was planned to be in the game, but was cut for whatever reason.

Oh, most definitely to make it look like something rare and unusual. As the rest of your post confirms, he wasn't designed for the original game. So the odds that he was modeled around being a fleshed out version of the original legendary bird Ash saw on leaving Pallet is pretty likely. Ít also happened to be something that they were able to go back to what must have been many years later with Eusine, once he was fully developed and appropriate back story had been covered.

For all of the daft comments about me "hating" the series, I've watched up to the Battle Frontier, and played every game that came out up to Black/White... They just crossed the line for me, because I'd always played every generation using a fresh team, and it was the first time even after scouring the new Pokedex that I could not find 6 that I liked - the fact that many were worse looking clones of the original games 150 didn't help. I also found the triple battle system to just be tacky and clunky, and the story to be more annoying than engaging. I don't see any point in buying B/W2, given I still wouldn't be able to make a current gen team of 6. (I always did the story with a visually aesthetic team, and battled friends with hand picked, EV raised monsters)

[Deleted]

Oh, most definitely to make it look like something rare and unusual. As the rest of your post confirms, he wasn't designed for the original game. So the odds that he was modeled around being a fleshed out version of the original legendary bird Ash saw on leaving Pallet is pretty likely. Ít also happened to be something that they were able to go back to what must have been many years later with Eusine, once he was fully developed and appropriate back story had been covered.

For all of the daft comments about me "hating" the series, I've watched up to the Battle Frontier, and played every game that came out up to Black/White... They just crossed the line for me, because I'd always played every generation using a fresh team, and it was the first time even after scouring the new Pokedex that I could not find 6 that I liked - the fact that many were worse looking clones of the original games 150 didn't help. I also found the triple battle system to just be tacky and clunky, and the story to be more annoying than engaging. I don't see any point in buying B/W2, given I still wouldn't be able to make a current gen team of 6. (I always did the story with a visually aesthetic team, and battled friends with hand picked, EV raised monsters)

And why exactly do you feel the need to tell us all of this? Why do you need to ruin the game for others, and tell them they can't like it, just because you don't like it?

[Ryve]

Why do you need to ruin the game for others, and tell them they can't like it, just because you don't like it?

I never said/did anything of the sort. Are you intentionally flame-baiting?

[twinkleblur]

But Cyndaquil is so cute

But yeah I don't like meganium, only evolved starters I like less are Emboar and Serperior

that was a typo...i meant i like him lol the rest suck. and besides..he can learn thunderpunch...take that water types!!!

[Deleted]

that was a typo...i meant i like him lol the rest suck. and besides..he can learn thunderpunch...take that water types!!!

I like most starters, only gen 5 and some of the ones in previous games (Usually grass starters, lol) are the ones I don't really like.