Wolfheart: Major spoilers (read at your own risk 2.0)

[Lysah]

To be fair to Tyrande, her character was sooo much better in WC3.

I know my WoW lore, I know my Maiev lore, I just don't like her. An awesome story? I agree 100%. Is she justified in her actions and are they believable? Again, totally. But for whatever reason, I just loathe her. Same with Varian - is his outlook completely justified from his point of view? Absolutely. Is he an arrogant prick who deserves to burn in the fiery pits of hell anyway? Very much so, yes. I /spit at that asshole every chance I get. Too bad when you're the king of Stormwind or *snicker* the Supreme High King Overlord Emperor Warlord Mastermind of the Alliance it's not okay to be a selfish egomaniacal manchild. But, of course, you have to actually be able to look at the whole picture objectively to see that, which some of the fanboys in this thread can't seem to do.

Equating Maiev with Varian...now you've really hurt my feelings =(

Also, I hope Illidan does return. That way, Maiev can kill him in a one on one like she was always meant to. Her fault for jailing him in the first place, like every other story, should've ripped his neck out when you had the chance...

[turlyonlost to tirion wtf]

Equating Maiev with Varian...now you've really hurt my feelings =(

Also, I hope Illidan does return. That way, Maiev can kill him in a one on one like she was always meant to. Her fault for jailing him in the first place, like every other story, should've ripped his neck out when you had the chance...

Knowing blizzard he will come back from the dead by Possessing mAives and Akumas kid 0.o Derp I mean Akama

[RyanEX]

Speaking of that, as I've said, haven't done Barrens Horde side, could anyone link me to that quest where the orc/whatever says the Alliance struck first on wowhead or something please?

Also, another spoiler for people, not sure if anyone brought it: the magnataur were kept in cages and they obeyed Garrosh because he had their children/females hostages. Still they were quite unpredictable, in battle one stepped on a tauren and after Varian won the battle everyone ate burgers(ok, making the burger stuff up, but one did squish a tauren).

Don't remember any text about who struck first. Bulk of the chain seemed to be hooked on the Alliance attacking Camp Taurajo.

---------- Post added 2011-09-14 at 09:11 PM ----------

To be fair to Tyrande, her character was sooo much better in WC3.

I know my WoW lore, I know my Maiev lore, I just don't like her. An awesome story? I agree 100%. Is she justified in her actions and are they believable? Again, totally. But for whatever reason, I just loathe her. Same with Varian - is his outlook completely justified from his point of view? Absolutely. Is he an arrogant prick who deserves to burn in the fiery pits of hell anyway? Very much so, yes. I /spit at that asshole every chance I get. Too bad when you're the king of Stormwind or *snicker* the Supreme High King Overlord Emperor Warlord Mastermind of the Alliance it's not okay to be a selfish egomaniacal manchild. But, of course, you have to actually be able to look at the whole picture objectively to see that, which some of the fanboys in this thread can't seem to do.

You speak of fanboys when you've admitted that just just don't like a person for reasons unknown to you. In such a case you're in no position to deliver unbiased opinion any more than the said "fanboys". Varian's been wrong as many times as he's been right, what haters like you don't seem to want to get is that he is basing his decisions on what he knows. He's not a player character that does quests and gets first hand info. He's like a president getting the information that his subordinates deem necessary.

Was he wrong about the Worgen? Yes he was, he was an absolute ass. But he didn't roll a worgen alt and see that things weren't all sunshine and rainbows on the other side of the wall.

Was he wrong about the Horde? Currently no. Thrall putting Garrosh in charge was tantamount to trying to out an electrical fire with water. Coupled with Sylvanas actions Thrall's most likely lost Jaina's support in the upcoming novel Golden's writing.


As for Maiev...we know Knaak's track record with female heroine's. Instead of trying to come up with a believeable reason why she'd trip out, he just slaps you in the face "she's evil now. Who knew?" She had no problem working with Kael, nor working with a Horde raid to kill Illidan. So her obsession with driving out Highborne just doesn't hold water.

[Eucep]

On alliance side the main issue was that the alliance attacked and took out and important place, Taurajo. But there it goes into alliance inner conflict, with forces that are loyal and honorable, those who let civillians evacuate and so on. But then there is this force of conscripted soldiers, former Defias, as well as a few horde haters who want to annihilate them, who then proceed to ransack, attack civillians and plan to conquer the entire barrens and even end up assassinating a honorable alliance general to further their goals.

Iirc, the alliance mainly managed their overtake of Taurajo due to the cataclysm.

[Jistu]

Wow, this stuff is actually pretty cool.

I'm glad Maive is a villian now, I never liked her.

This doesn't totally redeem Knaak for wht he did to the War of the Ancients, though.

[Agoonga]

- There's still some nonsense about Varian's relationship with that wolf god, though our gentle readers have been somewhat coy about spilling the beans on that. Either way, it seems like it's more in the vein of "influence" than "possession," but it still comes off as contrived.

Varian = Naruto?

[turlyonlost to tirion wtf]

Varian = Naruto?

Excepted Varian has flaws sort of

[Zaelsino]

Excepted Varian has flaws sort of

So does Naruto. Crap hair and a horrible catchphrase.

[Dacia Ultan]

I'm glad Maive is a villian now, I never liked her.

I don't like Rhonin. Does this mean I should hope that he randomly jumps off the slippery slope for the hell of it just so that we can kill him for purplez?

[Brendanb]

If you can't debate nicely then don't do it. - Phen

I'm really interested in what you think is "Nice" in a debate, Phenomina. I thought he made completely valid points, you can't call Thrall a mary sue, but not Varian after he beats Garrosh with no explanation what-so-ever, just because he's part of the Alliance. Is it because he perceived someone as ignorant and voiced his opinion? This isn't allowed now in a debate? I see this as unjust, or perhaps even an abuse of power seeing how you yourself posted your own opinion on the matter earlier.

[Caiada]

I don't like Rhonin. Does this mean I should hope that he randomly jumps off the slippery slope for the hell of it just so that we can kill him for purplez?

It might. This could apply to a lot of characters/future villains actually.

[Arrashi]

There is only one word to describe varian's newfound power... HAX !!!! I would love if someone hit him with computer monitor.

[Seebach]

So I "borrowed" my cousin's Wolfheart novel, am 136 pages into it.

I'm already sickened by slogging through the damn thing (taking words from someone elses experience, it was summed up quite nicely). It feels like I'm walking through mud without rainboots in a down pour just to get through 10 pages.

I'm sick of the words "Naivette" (Not even going to search for the correct charactered letters for the blasted word) and "Assuage". I think they've both been used up to this mark twice, which one too many times respectively to use it in the same book over 3 chapters.

You could probably reduce the book by about 80 pages and it would read better.

That asside, what you actually get out of it in the end is what's important, which is sad, becuause so far, this could have been a special event as a prelude to cataclysm. It may have taken some of the impact of the book away, but it would have been awesome as an ingame experience.

[Dacia Ultan]

It might. This could apply to a lot of characters/future villains actually.

I certainly hope not. Having characters turn lulzebil for no particular reason—regardless of my opinion on them—is not a mark of good writing.

Let's put it this way: if you're reading a work of fan fiction, what do you think when a character randomly gets the "Ron the Death Eater" (Google it) treatment? Doing it canonically is only marginally better.

[Azaael]

Illidan will return, but most likely as an Eternal like Medivh, probably for the final expansion where we go against the legion.

This would be too awesome. I'm curious on to what's happening in Metzen's head here, though I don't suspect we'll see it for awhile. Though honestly thinking about it, I wouldn't want him back as like some sorta...Eternal or anything. Keep him powerful like he was(where only an entire army-read: a 25 man raid, which I always considered the stuff sent to attack people in the canon-could actually get him, but not like Sargeras or anything, don't Marty Stuize him), but make him more just about getting cleansed and doing some penance going stomping some Legion like a demon hunter should.

Metzen said it was actually an 80+ page novella, written by Micky Nielson (who also wrote the Nobundo short story). They don't have any concrete plans for a release.

I'd like to see this someday. It might make me understand it more, but who knows if it will ever see the light of day.

I know my WoW lore, I know my Maiev lore, I just don't like her.

This is just where I am. I mean, I can think of several characters in books and movies that I've read and seen where I can say I think they are good characters-where I hate their guts. I'm a big Song of Ice and Fire fan and oh boy does this one have some. I can't explain it. There can be Dude 1 and Dude 2, and both can be well-written characters, but I'll hate Dude 1 to the absolute core and want to see them have lots of bad stuff happen to them but I'll like Dude 2 even if he's bad, but both of them, again, are well-written. It's just something that happens when I read a character.

[Trassk]

So I "borrowed" my cousin's Wolfheart novel, am 136 pages into it.

I'm already sickened by slogging through the damn thing (taking words from someone elses experience, it was summed up quite nicely). It feels like I'm walking through mud without rainboots in a down pour just to get through 10 pages.

I'm sick of the words "Naivette" (Not even going to search for the correct charactered letters for the blasted word) and "Assuage". I think they've both been used up to this mark twice, which one too many times respectively to use it in the same book over 3 chapters.

You could probably reduce the book by about 80 pages and it would read better.

That asside, what you actually get out of it in the end is what's important, which is sad, becuause so far, this could have been a special event as a prelude to cataclysm. It may have taken some of the impact of the book away, but it would have been awesome as an ingame experience.

From this, I've seen a lot of people saying the same thing, that well the draft of the plot is good, the writing itself is beyond terrible.
For me the writing is everything that keeps me wanting to raid. You shouldn't have to feel like you swimming though a tar pit just to see the outcome of the story, when another writer could do so much better.

[Lysah]

This is just where I am. I mean, I can think of several characters in books and movies that I've read and seen where I can say I think they are good characters-where I hate their guts. I'm a big Song of Ice and Fire fan and oh boy does this one have some. I can't explain it. There can be Dude 1 and Dude 2, and both can be well-written characters, but I'll hate Dude 1 to the absolute core and want to see them have lots of bad stuff happen to them but I'll like Dude 2 even if he's bad, but both of them, again, are well-written. It's just something that happens when I read a character.

I didn't really take to Maiev at first, either. I mean, I never really hated her, but playing WC3 Illidan/Tyrande/Malfurion seemed so cool at first, and she just pops out of nowhere in the first night elf campaign mission and is like "kill Illidan yeah!" It did seem random and out of place, and she does come off as a cold bitch quite often during the WC3 campaigns, mostly in the way she talks.

In the end though, I guess not everyone can relate to her and her story like I can. And if you don't hate the super night elf trio, it's certainly that much harder to side with Maiev. Most of us who are big fans of Maiev also hate Tyrande, if not Illidan and Malfurion as well =) It's kind of picking teams, I guess.

[Caiada]

I certainly hope not. Having characters turn lulzebil for no particular reason—regardless of my opinion on them—is not a mark of good writing.

Let's put it this way: if you're reading a work of fan fiction, what do you think when a character randomly gets the "Ron the Death Eater" (Google it) treatment? Doing it canonically is only marginally better.

I try not to read much fanfiction. :/

And this would only work, to me at least.... with characters who were already badly written. Going some dramatically different direction could make them more interesting. Maybe just that direction shouldn't be evil.

This makes me think though; I wish the Warcraft Universe wasn't so morally distinct with its characters sometimes.

None of this applies to Maiev, also. She's looking like she's going the cliche way of crazy-evil, like Fandral. Lose a loved one -> Go mad with supremacy crap -> Become a raid boss in the future.

Med'an would be a perfect choice for the slightly blacker future with corruption though. That's my secret hope for his inevitable future implementation.

[Lysah]

If they would come out and admit Maiev and Naisha were lovers, it would all be okay in my eyes. As of right now, we have no actual proof of this, so all we can really say is "lose some friends > go mad with supremacy crap > become a raid boss." Not nearly as convincing as Fandral's seeing his son die before his eyes. Twice.

[Caiada]

If they would come out and admit Maiev and Naisha were lovers, it would all be okay in my eyes. As of right now, we have no actual proof of this, so all we can really say is "lose some friends > go mad with supremacy crap > become a raid boss." Not nearly as convincing as Fandral's seeing his son die before his eyes. Twice.

Yeah, I actually enjoyed what they did with Fandral... but doing it again, and agreed on it being much less convincing, would be disappointing. Ideally, it goes some other direction. This whole 'Night Elf supremacist' subfaction going on here needs to be dealt with in a way that doesn't involve them just being evil and us killing them or being killed.