1. #841
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    I don't think one necessarily has to reach three to go to 4. Going to 4 is all about being able to control the Golden Ape form perfectly which is attained by going ape form while in SSJ(any) form. SSJ3 is actually a pretty terrible form and should be avoided if possible. It's highly inefficient and wastes tons of energy. I've always viewed SSJ3 as Goku's failed attempt to reach SSJ4 because he failed to realize at the time that one needs a tail and ape form in order to control the power. Had he known that back in DBZ, probably would of skipped 3 altogether.

    So i guess what I'm saying is I view SSJ3 and SSJ4 like, a fake SSJ2 and real SSJ2. SSJ3 is just a weaker, much less efficient form of SSJ4 because the control was not their to manage it. Like how future Trunks in fake SS2 was all buffed up, but it was a waste of power because he was to slow and not in full control.

    OT: Vegeta has an easier time of getting to SSJ4 then Goku does. If Bulma used the beam on him again, he would easily be able to do it. To go SSJ4 one needs to go Ape form while in any SSJ form. That way they become a golden ape. Very few Saiyans can control this form, in fact none up until Goku and Vegeta. The original Legendary SSJ was a golden ape who could not control the form and instead blew up the original Saiyan homeworld.

    Vegeta first mentions back in the Namek saga(I justed watched it yesterday) when Goku first appears on Namek that HE the prince of saiyans should be the legendary SSJ. This is because he's from a bloodline of Sayians that have total control over the Ape form. This is why come the end of GT, he actually has an easier time of managing the golden ape then Goku did and went less psycho.
    It's probably more accurate to say that Super Saiyan 4 is Legendary Super Saiyan 2.

    Legendary Super Saiyan is the form that Broly takes. Supposedly, it's the form you take if you meet the requirements for SS1 and you still have a tail. The only 3 characters that are known to have achieved this form are Broly, the Original Super Saiyan, and Bardock.

    SS4 is completely unrelated to SS2, SS3 and even SS1 in a sense.. As you said, it's all about controlling the Great Golden Ape form. My personal theory is that Great Golden Ape is LSSx10. It's an intermediary stage for LSS and LSS2.

    It's probably best to think of it as two separate charts.

    FSS-->SS-->ASS-->USS-->FPSS-->SS2-->SS3
    LSS-->GGA-->SS4 aka LSS2
    It's also possible there's a third chart, though it's unconfirmed if it's possible to transform into a Super Saiyan straight from the Great Ape form. If it is then the third chart would be.
    GA-->GGA-->LSS2

    It seems like the various charts have the potential to cross over at certain points, or even skip entire stages. For example, Goku is the only known character to reach False Super Saiyan, and Gohan skipped Ascended and Ultra moving straight to Full Power.

    Also, I abbreviated Ascended Super Saiyan as ASS, and that makes me chuckle.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 09:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by planrawsto View Post
    Can someone link me that blog where it's a dude talking about power levels and how insane they become by the end of DBZ?

    I saw it in someone's sig but I've misplaced it. It was a very entertaining read.
    Are you referring to my sig? If that's the case then I would very much like to see this blog, as my sig is original and entirely my own work. Also, I would pretty much be the guy to talk to about power levels.
    Last edited by OrcsRLame; 2012-04-12 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncanîdaho View Post
    Vegeta first mentions back in the Namek saga(I justed watched it yesterday) when Goku first appears on Namek that HE the prince of saiyans should be the legendary SSJ. This is because he's from a bloodline of Sayians that have total control over the Ape form. This is why come the end of GT, he actually has an easier time of managing the golden ape then Goku did and went less psycho.
    Yeah when he initially started crushing goku I thought he was just doing it for fun seeing as we knew he was already conscious of his actions in monkey mode (like in the 1st goku vs vegeta fight when he was talking etc)

    @ Laurcus What exactly is FSS ASS USS FPSS and LSS? sorry in the show its kinda hard to tell exactly what form they are in other than normal SS SS3 SS4 and I Assume GA means great ape and GGA means Golden Great Ape?

    Oh and Zoma I did not look closely enough at that picture of vegeta and recoome the first time. Now I know what you mean haha

  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by Lymph View Post
    Yeah when he initially started crushing goku I thought he was just doing it for fun seeing as we knew he was already conscious of his actions in monkey mode (like in the 1st goku vs vegeta fight when he was talking etc)

    @ Laurcus What exactly is FSS ASS USS FPSS and LSS? sorry in the show its kinda hard to tell exactly what form they are in other than normal SS SS3 SS4 and I Assume GA means great ape and GGA means Golden Great Ape?

    Oh and Zoma I did not look closely enough at that picture of vegeta and recoome the first time. Now I know what you mean haha
    FSS= False Super Saiyan. This is the form Goku reaches in DBZ movie 4, Lord Slug.

    ASS (lol)= Ascended Super Saiyan. This is the form that Vegeta and Trunks fight imperfect Cell in.

    USS= Ultra Super Saiyan. This is the form Trunks used to fight Perfect Cell. Vegeta had access to this form, but didn't use it due to muscle bulk inhibiting movement. Goku also demonstrates this form to Gohan

    FPSS= Full Power Super Saiyan. This is the form Goku and Gohan reach that leads them to Super Saiyan 2. Some dispute that it should even be called its own form, as it's just mastery over the base Super Saiyan form. I disagree with that for several reasons, but that's another talk entirely.

    LSS= Legendary Super Saiyan. This is Broly's form. It's also possible that when Bardock becomes a Super Saiyan in Episode of Bardock that he was technically using this form, as he did have a tail when he transformed. Though his form appeared to be normal Super Saiyan, that could simply indicate that Broly is unique though. The Original Super Saiyan may have also used this form.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 11:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by planrawsto View Post
    Haha, yep, you were the guy. Thank ye sir. Very entertaining read indeed.
    Is there actually a blog that uses my stuff lol? Just so we're clear, I don't have a blog.

    Edit: Yeah, GA and GGA are Great Ape and Great Golden Ape.
    Last edited by OrcsRLame; 2012-04-13 at 12:01 AM.

  4. #844
    Because they were recommended by people I just got to and finished watching the Super Android 13 and Wrath of the Dragon movies.

    I didn't think the Super Android film was anything special, in fact I'd call it very much a typical DBZ film, almost a generic one amongst the others, although I was instantly confused because I tried to place the film inside the show's time line and I couldn't do so comfortably, what with the very start showing Doctor Gero being killed by 17. (Just how many projects does that guy have on the go at once? Seems almost like me!... If only I could create a computer that could do my own work (but about a dozen times better it seems) without my input.) I did like 13's southern voice though and his little rant against free will, he has a point that I don't think is very well rebutted, if at all.

    However, Wrath of the Dragon was a different beast entirely and I must say I was enthralled, it did seem very different from what I'd consider the norm and I know there was a little discussion on this come pages ago but from now on I consider that sword future Trunks has to be Tapion's enchanted blade, canon or not it will forever be in my mind.

    Of course I still sighed when the heroes were taken for a ride by the obvious shifty eyed villain.

    Oh and one other very minor point is that I disliked Hirudegarn's sort of transformation or renewal towards the end, it just made him look a bit too similar to that giant bug Nappa and Vegeta met at the beginning of Z, but it's a minor point.

  5. #845
    I watched the episode of bardock like last week.. and I never saw him go Super saiyan.. how could I miss that unless I watched some shortened version, but it was like 45 minutes..
    And how is Broly's different? I know he is legendary and magically comes back to life but he doesn't actually look or seem different than other super saiyans (other than that he has no pupils half the time.)

  6. #846
    Banned Rageissues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lymph View Post
    I watched the episode of bardock like last week.. and I never saw him go Super saiyan.. how could I miss that unless I watched some shortened version, but it was like 45 minutes..
    And how is Broly's different? I know he is legendary and magically comes back to life but he doesn't actually look or seem different than other super saiyans (other than that he has no pupils half the time.)
    I reckon you watched the Bardock TV special where he gets the ability to see the future. Episode of Bardock is a Japanese special that came out not too long ago, and it's impossible to miss him go Super Saiyan.

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by planrawsto View Post
    Do you have a tumblr or something, Laurcus? I found something by googling your signature ages ago. Was like a pages long rant. I wish I could find the whole thing.
    Nope. I really only post here. Well, at least concerning DBZ stuff. I am actually familiar with that Tumblr post though. It was a reposting of what I posted on page 2 of the Goku vs Superman thread here. I have no idea who made that Tumblr post, but oh well lol.

    I do go by Laurcus on basically any site I register on though. So if you see a Laurcus on the BioWare forums, Animesuki, science.net, Youtube, and a few others, it's probably me.

  8. #848
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    bardock never reached the legendary form

    he only reached SS1 and is confirmed to be the saiyan that freiza was afraid of (because bardock killed chilled)

    the real first legendary super saiyan of vegetas legends is some one else

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Lymph View Post
    I watched the episode of bardock like last week.. and I never saw him go Super saiyan.. how could I miss that unless I watched some shortened version, but it was like 45 minutes..
    And how is Broly's different? I know he is legendary and magically comes back to life but he doesn't actually look or seem different than other super saiyans (other than that he has no pupils half the time.)
    Yeah, as Rageissues said, you probably watched the tv special Bardock: The Father of Goku. There's another special with Bardock in it called Episode of Bardock. Hint, Bardock survives the destruction of planet Vegeta.

    Broly's form, Legendary Super Saiyan, is actually quite different from normal Super Saiyan. It's more powerful, and in his case it produces a green aura. It also vastly increases his muscle size, and appears to burst forth from under his skin when he transforms. Supposedly, the form is accessible because he has a tail, (you never see his tail except when he's a baby but trust me it's there) which Bardock also has when he goes Super Saiyan. So in theory, Bardock should have access to the form as well.

  10. #850
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Broly does have a tail

    he keeps it in his belt.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    bardock never reached the legendary form

    he only reached SS1 and is confirmed to be the saiyan that freiza was afraid of (because bardock killed chilled)

    the real first legendary super saiyan of vegetas legends is some one else
    We don't know for sure that Bardock never reached LSS. It's not like he died immediately after Episode of Bardock. You are right though in that he is not the Saiyan of legend that Vegeta spoke of. It is likely though that both were alive at the same time.

    inb4 Fight between Bardock and Original Super Saiyan.

  12. #852
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    ---------- Post added 2012-04-13 at 02:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    We don't know for sure that Bardock never reached LSS. It's not like he died immediately after Episode of Bardock. You are right though in that he is not the Saiyan of legend that Vegeta spoke of. It is likely though that both were alive at the same time.

    inb4 Fight between Bardock and Original Super Saiyan.
    I would love to see an episode of bardock based series, why not have him be the main character and basically reset power levels to namek-freiza saga levels so the universe does not implode

    rumors have it its a plan, i want it to be so

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by CursedEmbrace View Post
    Because they were recommended by people I just got to and finished watching the Super Android 13 and Wrath of the Dragon movies.

    I didn't think the Super Android film was anything special, in fact I'd call it very much a typical DBZ film, almost a generic one amongst the others, although I was instantly confused because I tried to place the film inside the show's time line and I couldn't do so comfortably, what with the very start showing Doctor Gero being killed by 17. (Just how many projects does that guy have on the go at once? Seems almost like me!... If only I could create a computer that could do my own work (but about a dozen times better it seems) without my input.) I did like 13's southern voice though and his little rant against free will, he has a point that I don't think is very well rebutted, if at all.

    However, Wrath of the Dragon was a different beast entirely and I must say I was enthralled, it did seem very different from what I'd consider the norm and I know there was a little discussion on this come pages ago but from now on I consider that sword future Trunks has to be Tapion's enchanted blade, canon or not it will forever be in my mind.

    Of course I still sighed when the heroes were taken for a ride by the obvious shifty eyed villain.

    Oh and one other very minor point is that I disliked Hirudegarn's sort of transformation or renewal towards the end, it just made him look a bit too similar to that giant bug Nappa and Vegeta met at the beginning of Z, but it's a minor point.
    Yeah, as I said, Wrath of the Dragon is the best. Super Android 13 is fairly average in most respects, I just like the finish. And really, the best thing about the finish is that the zoomed out spot makes a badass clip for AMVs. And for me, the finish is one of the most important parts.

  14. #854
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    I like how androids 13-15 was basically american

    u know why

  15. #855
    Oh yep I did watch the one where he got the ability to see the future.. didn't realize there was more than one.

    If it's the tail that unlocks LSS then couldn't GT goku technically do it?

    Also I just watched Lord Slug in Japanese (because that was the way I found it) and the voices... Goku and Krillin's are just so bad. Yajirobe sounds so funny too. Piccolo sounds ok and King Kai sounds like a narrator.
    What does all the san and chan after the names mean? Is it like a way to show the relationship to that person?
    Also I know movies do not fit timelines n all, but when is it kinda supposed to be because it mentioned frieza and super saiyans and all, but goku never went SS (unless the one I watched was Subbed incorrectly lol)

  16. #856
    Field Marshal Ibeblinkin's Avatar
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    i'd love to know who the saiyan of legend is,and if he's tied to goku in any way,will probably never find out

  17. #857
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    freiza in japanese actually sounds pretty normal

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-13 at 02:32 AM ----------



    ---------- Post added 2012-04-13 at 02:34 AM ----------

    i;m sorry but the animation for that is just to good to not make into its own series or remake aaaaaallll the dbz in that animation

  18. #858
    Is there somewhere with the Episode of Bardock with English voices? Not subbed

  19. #859
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karosea View Post
    Is there somewhere with the Episode of Bardock with English voices? Not subbed
    nope

    suffer through bardocks child voice (aka same as gokus)

    and enjoy freizas actually..... more masculine then goku voice

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    nope

    suffer through bardocks child voice (aka same as gokus)

    and enjoy freizas actually..... more masculine then goku voice
    Nooooooooooooooo the japanese voices really annoy me..

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