Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[Ðemonhuntr]

then how powerful was the barrier that Vegito had problems piercing i mean dayum O.o

[OrcsRLame]

then how powerful was the barrier that Vegito had problems piercing i mean dayum O.o

I believe the scientific term is, "very".

Seriously. Buu was putting out enough power to destroy the entire cosmos. And they mentioned a few times that Buu is kind of like the Hulk. The more angry he gets, the stronger he gets, and he was really pissed off.

[Ðemonhuntr]

mustve been a seriously u man bro moment since vegito was whooping his ass b4 but then again he does say its over when he does pierce it so i guess he was at max rage mode.

---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 02:13 AM ----------

Also they probably do, but wouldnt it be most efficient to train in your base form cuz the multipliers make it better? 1 in base is 50 in SS so even if you get 49 in SS its still worse then 1 in base but from what i recall they did mostly train in base.

[OrcsRLame]

mustve been a seriously u man bro moment since vegito was whooping his ass b4 but then again he does say its over when he does pierce it so i guess he was at max rage mode.

---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 02:13 AM ----------

Also they probably do, but wouldnt it be most efficient to train in your base form cuz the multipliers make it better? 1 in base is 50 in SS so even if you get 49 in SS its still worse then 1 in base but from what i recall they did mostly train in base.

I don't really think it makes too much of a difference. From what I've seen, power increases seem to be percent based. So training is probably effective as long as they're putting out a lot of effort. Though it seems like training in a form makes it feel more natural to be in that form, which is an advantage in and of itself.

Dunno, those are just some observations.

[Letmesleep]

Well, Vegito was so powerful it didn't matter if he was candy or a person. He was just fucking with Buu so hard that Buu thought it was easier fighting Vegito as a person, when really, it didn't matter. You gotta understand, the fusion earrings multiply the power of the two fighters together. Think of it this way. SS3 is a x400 increase. Fusion is a multiplier of the other person's power level. So, for example, if Buu saga Goku fused with Saiyan saga Vegeta, he would become 18000x more powerful. A 45 times larger increase than SS3, just for fusing with a Saiyan saga character. Now imagine how retarded even base form Vegito's power must have been, assuming Vegeta's power level was in the hundreds of billions or trillions. It literally would not have mattered if Vegito was a person or a piece of candy or a single cell amoeba, he'd still shit on Buu with that much energy.

And I actually like the Buu saga. It has its moments when it drives me nuts, but overall I enjoy it. And for the most part it makes sense to me.[COLOR="red"]

I think it's fine for you to enjoy the Buu saga. I admittedly find most things rather boring, so I'm not a great indicator of something's entertainment value. With that said, here are some reasons I don't like the Buu saga:

-Characters display no consistency whatsoever in terms of sensing power levels. Up until the Buu saga, characters were able to sense even the slightest rise or fall of energy in other people. In fact, much of the show's previous episodes are spent showing our heroes gauge the power levels of everyone around them. It's pretty much a staple of the series. Starting from the World Martial Arts Tournament, characters sometimes know how powerful people are, sometimes they don't. Piccolo is able to sense Supreme Kai's power level, but everyone else has to ask him how powerful he is. When Gohan gets smashed by Fat Buu, everyone just assumes him dead even though he's just off in a forest somewhere. In fact, everyone but Videl assumes him dead for, like, 20 episodes. When Kid Buu blows up the earth, he uses Instant Transmission (the very nature of the technique is dependent on sensing power levels) by sensing miniscule levels of power on completely different planets while he looks for Goku/Vegeta. So Buu can sense power on other planets, but our heroes can't sense it a few miles away in a forest?

-Buu is by far the least interesting villain to me. Both Frieza and Cell had intelligence and ambition, where as Buu just wants to blow shit up. Frieza wanted to rule the universe, Cell wanted to be the perfect warrior and test his power, but Buu's motivations can be summed up as "HULK SMASH". Buu's capacity for language is limited at best, and I feel he honestly never has anything interesting to say. Both Frieza and Cell's vocabulary were robust, and each made intelligent and degrading jokes aimed at their opponents. Buu's lines all sound like "Buu turn you into candy!!" and once he hits Kid form he stops talking almost entirely, having his lines replaced with evil snickering.

-One-shots. This saga is filled with immediate KOs. Gohan is defeated instantly by Fat Buu. Supreme Kai is defeated instantly. Gotenks is absorbed instantly. Mystic Gohan is absorbed instantly. This is not how you do fight scenes. I find power struggles and logical defeats far more interesting than "a piece of my body was hanging around somewhere, now it's going to absorb you without any kind of struggle".

-The fights with various Buu forms all seem very pointless. Starting with Fat Buu, the damage he receives is literally shrugged off. Vegeta makes clear dents in his body, but 2 seconds later all the damage is reverted. There is no real tug of war here like there was with Frieza and Cell, he's simply untouchable. While Cell could regenerate, he was outclassed and put in danger several times during his saga. Frieza had to keep increasing his power in order to stay ahead. These were interesting battles because both Frieza and Cell actually took damage and could be worn down. Buu just negates any effort spent attacking him, and while our characters get more powerful, they don't do any more damage to Buu then they did previously. Buu is an "all or nothing" enemy, and that's not particularly interesting to me.

-Mr. Satan. This character is awful. Awful, horrible, bland, annoying, awful. Awful. I hate this character. Mr. Satan's lines are literally all the same, and for some reason, he feels the need to scream them. "I AM THE BEST! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! GOOD THING YOU HAD ME HERE!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!". This kind of character works for a little bit, but a person would have to have extremely high crap tolerance to enjoy him indefinitely. While he mellows out by the time Super Buu shows up, I had already grown to despise him. I can't even believe how much of the show is wasted on such an egocentric and one dimensional character.

-Various other annoyances like fighting candy, destruction of priceless ancient artifacts (TWO sets of fusion earrings crushed for no reason. TWO.), and a higher emphasis on the good guys running away than in any other saga. Also, Buu absorbs himself and gets stronger, but when Fat Buu is cut out of Super Buu, he gets even stronger than that? He talks about one of the past Supreme Kais making him weaker because he was nice, so why didn't the innocence of Goten and Gohan ALSO make him weaker? I call BS.

Another one of my complaints would have been fusion power levels (adding two SS1 children together was more powerful than SS2 Vegeta?) but you talked about how their power was was multiplicative, not additive, so that makes sense I guess. It's certainly never covered by the show.

One thing I should note is that I do actually think fusion is a neat idea. I'm confused on why they left the explanation of its power out, but it remains a pretty nifty trick.

[iadamson]

What I would like to do is create a comic book/ graphic novel, and bring a western feel to DBZ (keep the art the same)... pretty much a comic book version/ western version of the manga. With a twist... Modify the story a bit so its more consistent and incorporates movies and side stories etc. That'd be a cool comic series.

[GennGreymane]

someone will no longer have pokemon after this

---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 04:05 AM ----------



i surprised that never hit a planet with people invading to retaliate

[Ðemonhuntr]

I heared it hit Alderaan

[GennGreymane]

and they blamed the empire.... nice scape goat

[iadamson]

Good night sweet Krypton

[GennGreymane]

but for real. how did that have 0 consequences. do we all know how many times shit like that happened?

[iadamson]

maybe it dissipated before leaving the solar system, even if it left the solar system still a ways to go before another star/ solar system. There's more space than matter in the universe... i think.


thought this AF looked bad ass

[GennGreymane]

yes i cant wait for the next chapter, dat parunga in fighting form, u can tell he even lifts

i hope the beams just went away....... fuck to who ever is in that direction

[iadamson]

Inspired me to make a ms paint of fight form Porunga, LOLLLL I think his facial features and horns are more accurate though. One without and with a tail...





I think if I had the art skills, I'd make his first form have no spikes on his knees or elbows, and his second have have the Namekian Dragon Balls on his chest with perhaps spikes on his knees and elbows.

[GennGreymane]

reminds me of ragnaros with legs

[iadamson]

lulz same.

Still those guys who make up AF stuff are pretty creative and come up with good concepts.

Like that Marble guy, looks like AF beat Toriyama to the punch for a villain idea for the 2013 movie. (Makaishin as a bad guy)

Xicor & Ize are meeh I duno cool but idk. Adult Gotenks is neat, and ss4's and 5's for everyone is kinda neat too.

[OrcsRLame]

I think it's fine for you to enjoy the Buu saga. I admittedly find most things rather boring, so I'm not a great indicator of something's entertainment value. With that said, here are some reasons I don't like the Buu saga:

-Characters display no consistency whatsoever in terms of sensing power levels. Up until the Buu saga, characters were able to sense even the slightest rise or fall of energy in other people. In fact, much of the show's previous episodes are spent showing our heroes gauge the power levels of everyone around them. It's pretty much a staple of the series. Starting from the World Martial Arts Tournament, characters sometimes know how powerful people are, sometimes they don't. Piccolo is able to sense Supreme Kai's power level, but everyone else has to ask him how powerful he is. When Gohan gets smashed by Fat Buu, everyone just assumes him dead even though he's just off in a forest somewhere. In fact, everyone but Videl assumes him dead for, like, 20 episodes. When Kid Buu blows up the earth, he uses Instant Transmission (the very nature of the technique is dependent on sensing power levels) by sensing miniscule levels of power on completely different planets while he looks for Goku/Vegeta. So Buu can sense power on other planets, but our heroes can't sense it a few miles away in a forest?

-Buu is by far the least interesting villain to me. Both Frieza and Cell had intelligence and ambition, where as Buu just wants to blow shit up. Frieza wanted to rule the universe, Cell wanted to be the perfect warrior and test his power, but Buu's motivations can be summed up as "HULK SMASH". Buu's capacity for language is limited at best, and I feel he honestly never has anything interesting to say. Both Frieza and Cell's vocabulary were robust, and each made intelligent and degrading jokes aimed at their opponents. Buu's lines all sound like "Buu turn you into candy!!" and once he hits Kid form he stops talking almost entirely, having his lines replaced with evil snickering.

-One-shots. This saga is filled with immediate KOs. Gohan is defeated instantly by Fat Buu. Supreme Kai is defeated instantly. Gotenks is absorbed instantly. Mystic Gohan is absorbed instantly. This is not how you do fight scenes. I find power struggles and logical defeats far more interesting than "a piece of my body was hanging around somewhere, now it's going to absorb you without any kind of struggle".

-The fights with various Buu forms all seem very pointless. Starting with Fat Buu, the damage he receives is literally shrugged off. Vegeta makes clear dents in his body, but 2 seconds later all the damage is reverted. There is no real tug of war here like there was with Frieza and Cell, he's simply untouchable. While Cell could regenerate, he was outclassed and put in danger several times during his saga. Frieza had to keep increasing his power in order to stay ahead. These were interesting battles because both Frieza and Cell actually took damage and could be worn down. Buu just negates any effort spent attacking him, and while our characters get more powerful, they don't do any more damage to Buu then they did previously. Buu is an "all or nothing" enemy, and that's not particularly interesting to me.

-Mr. Satan. This character is awful. Awful, horrible, bland, annoying, awful. Awful. I hate this character. Mr. Satan's lines are literally all the same, and for some reason, he feels the need to scream them. "I AM THE BEST! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! GOOD THING YOU HAD ME HERE!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!". This kind of character works for a little bit, but a person would have to have extremely high crap tolerance to enjoy him indefinitely. While he mellows out by the time Super Buu shows up, I had already grown to despise him. I can't even believe how much of the show is wasted on such an egocentric and one dimensional character.

-Various other annoyances like fighting candy, destruction of priceless ancient artifacts (TWO sets of fusion earrings crushed for no reason. TWO.), and a higher emphasis on the good guys running away than in any other saga. Also, Buu absorbs himself and gets stronger, but when Fat Buu is cut out of Super Buu, he gets even stronger than that? He talks about one of the past Supreme Kais making him weaker because he was nice, so why didn't the innocence of Goten and Gohan ALSO make him weaker? I call BS.

Another one of my complaints would have been fusion power levels (adding two SS1 children together was more powerful than SS2 Vegeta?) but you talked about how their power was was multiplicative, not additive, so that makes sense I guess. It's certainly never covered by the show.

One thing I should note is that I do actually think fusion is a neat idea. I'm confused on why they left the explanation of its power out, but it remains a pretty nifty trick.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. I like the Cell saga a lot more, definitely the height of the series. And Hercule can go die in a fire. I'd be cool with that.

I do have some corrections though. Buu isn't an all or nothing villain. It was shown twice that damage does leave a lasting effect on him. The first time this is shown is in Super Buu's fight with Vegito. After Vegito forces him to regenerate about 6 times or so, Buu comes back sweating and breathing hard, and he accidentally left a hole in his chest when he regenerated. This shows that Buu does have his limits, and repeated regenerations will wear him down. Then later on when Fat Buu fought Kid Buu, Vegeta made a comment that he could feel the fat one's power dropping rapidly while Kid Buu pounded on him. If you combine the information we got from these two facts, that shows that regenerating costs energy. No energy=dead. Buu can be killed via raw damage.

Okay, on to sensing power levels. I don't believe Piccolo sensed Supreme Kai's power level. I believe he simply recognized that he was a Kai. And it seemed to me like Piccolo had a great deal of knowledge about the Kais. He probably realized that he wasn't either of the 4 Kais, so he assumed that he was the Grand Kai. When Gohan lost to Fat Buu, he may as well have been dead. Considering he was hovering near death, he probably had even less power than a normal person. I doubt it would have been possible to pick him out from anyone else at that point.

The main thing that was interesting about Buu was his backstory and transformations. Personality wise he was pretty bland. I agree some of the fight scenes were lazy too. Everything with Gotenks felt like filler to me. And not the good kind of filler that makes me laugh like Goku and Piccolo learning to drive. It's like the kind of filler that makes me want to stab myself in the eye. I would have liked nothing more than for Ultimate Gohan to kill Super Buu and have that be the end of Buu without ever seeing Kid Buu.

Fusion Dance is addition of power levels. It's only the Fusion Earrings that's multiplication. Even so, SS1 Gotenks was not shown to be stronger than SS2 Vegeta. Gotenks only really has one showing before he goes into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, and that's when he gets wrecked by Fat Buu in base form. He does keep up with Super Buu decently before SS3, but that's after a significant period of time training in the Time Chamber. And it's hard to say how seriously Super Buu was taking that fight. He mainly seemed to be toying with him. Even when Gotenks went SS3 I believe Buu still had the superior power, especially with the comment he made to Gohan about how he was just trying to amuse himself until Gohan arrived, because he could sense Gohan's power.

Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is the strongest version of Buu. When Kibito Kai and Old Kai say that absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai weakened him, that's a dubbing error. What they actually say is that it pacified him. And Goten may be super innocent, but I don't really see how that compares to the Grand Supreme Kai. He's the literal god of the universe, (his name fully translated is Grand God King of the Worlds) he created the universe, and from what I've seen of him he was pure good, probably more so than is possible for a mortal. Basically, he absorbed a benevolent god. Not the same thing as a nice kid.

[CursedEmbrace]

Mr. Satan. This character is awful. Awful, horrible, bland, annoying, awful. Awful. I hate this character.

And Hercule can go die in a fire. I'd be cool with that.

I actually quite liked the guy.

And, as an aside another character I liked was that black guy at the Buu saga tournament (I think that's when he showed up at any rate) who talked in incomprehensible jive nonsense.

[McGrubbin]

Laurcus you should start adding TL;DRs to your posts.

[Letmesleep]

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. I like the Cell saga a lot more, definitely the height of the series. And Hercule can go die in a fire. I'd be cool with that.

Lol true that. He becomes a lot more likeable when he's with the dog running from Buu, but it's the 40 something episodes that preceded his change that made me want to tear my hair out. I kinda like the timid and caring Mr. Satan. The arrogant and loud Mr. Satan, though? Kill it. Kill it with fire.

I do have some corrections though. Buu isn't an all or nothing villain. It was shown twice that damage does leave a lasting effect on him. The first time this is shown is in Super Buu's fight with Vegito. After Vegito forces him to regenerate about 6 times or so, Buu comes back sweating and breathing hard, and he accidentally left a hole in his chest when he regenerated. This shows that Buu does have his limits, and repeated regenerations will wear him down. Then later on when Fat Buu fought Kid Buu, Vegeta made a comment that he could feel the fat one's power dropping rapidly while Kid Buu pounded on him. If you combine the information we got from these two facts, that shows that regenerating costs energy. No energy=dead. Buu can be killed via raw damage.

That's true, Super Buu did start to take noticeable damage that didn't revert after a couple seconds. This is actually the only part of the saga I've found interesting thus far. I've stalled right before SS3 Goku fights Kid Buu, so I haven't seen that part with Vegeta yet.

Okay, on to sensing power levels. I don't believe Piccolo sensed Supreme Kai's power level. I believe he simply recognized that he was a Kai. And it seemed to me like Piccolo had a great deal of knowledge about the Kais. He probably realized that he wasn't either of the 4 Kais, so he assumed that he was the Grand Kai. When Gohan lost to Fat Buu, he may as well have been dead. Considering he was hovering near death, he probably had even less power than a normal person. I doubt it would have been possible to pick him out from anyone else at that point.

I'm still not sure Gohan's situation makes sense. We've had plenty of near deaths during other sagas where the characters still sensed the spark even when they were out cold. Once Gohan recovered, why didn't Goku or anyone else sense him? Goku at the very least should have known considering he frequently uses Instant Transmission all the way from Other World. Piccolo did indeed have knowledge about the Kais that no one else seemed to, though I'm not sure what that has to do with anyone being unable to sense him.

The main thing that was interesting about Buu was his backstory and transformations. Personality wise he was pretty bland. I agree some of the fight scenes were lazy too. Everything with Gotenks felt like filler to me. And not the good kind of filler that makes me laugh like Goku and Piccolo learning to drive. It's like the kind of filler that makes me want to stab myself in the eye. I would have liked nothing more than for Ultimate Gohan to kill Super Buu and have that be the end of Buu without ever seeing Kid Buu.

I agree. I sadly never got to see the episode where they learn to drive, but I've heard it's really funny.

Super Buu with Gohan absorbed is the strongest version of Buu. When Kibito Kai and Old Kai say that absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai weakened him, that's a dubbing error. What they actually say is that it pacified him. And Goten may be super innocent, but I don't really see how that compares to the Grand Supreme Kai. He's the literal god of the universe, (his name fully translated is Grand God King of the Worlds) he created the universe, and from what I've seen of him he was pure good, probably more so than is possible for a mortal. Basically, he absorbed a benevolent god. Not the same thing as a nice kid.

Oh I see, well a dubbing error makes more sense than becoming stronger with less absorbed people.