Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[Avianator]

Why doesn't Cooler's Revenge fit?

Cooler's Revenge can't take place during the 3 years waiting for the androids mostly because Goku doesn't have the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan at will. That was THE most important part of Trunks coming back, him making sure that Goku could transform at will and be able to fight the androids. The only way the movie fits is if it was an alternate universe where Goku came back with the wish from Porunga.

Basically the movies that CAN fit based on both the power scaling and the appearance of characters (in both how they look and the whether or not they're alive) are Garlic Junior, Bojack, Wrath of the Dragon, and Battle of Gods. Everything else is thrown off by things like Goku using kaioken and the spirit bomb with Piccolo and Yamcha alive, Dende being the guardian even though Trunks isn't in the movie at all and Gohan isn't a Super Saiyan, etc.

[Turin]

Cooler's Revenge can't take place during the 3 years waiting for the androids mostly because Goku doesn't have the ability to transform into a Super Saiyan at will. That was THE most important part of Trunks coming back, him making sure that Goku could transform at will and be able to fight the androids. The only way the movie fits is if it was an alternate universe where Goku came back with the wish from Porunga.

Basically the movies that CAN fit based on both the power scaling and the appearance of characters (in both how they look and the whether or not they're alive) are Garlic Junior, Bojack, Wrath of the Dragon, and Battle of Gods. Everything else is thrown off by things like Goku using kaioken and the spirit bomb with Piccolo and Yamcha alive, Dende being the guardian even though Trunks isn't in the movie at all and Gohan isn't a Super Saiyan, etc.

What are you talking about? Goku was always able to turn ssj at will. The reason for Trunks coming to the past was to warn everyone of the coming of the androids so they could prepare and in order to give Goku his medicine so he wouldn't die before the androids came.

[Avianator]

What are you talking about? Goku was always able to turn ssj at will. The reason for Trunks coming to the past was to warn everyone of the coming of the androids so they could prepare and in order to give Goku his medicine so he wouldn't die before the androids came.

That's my point. Cooler's Revenge can't be a canon movie BECAUSE Goku isn't able to. His Super Saiyan transformation against Cooler wasn't at will. It was in response to a life or death situation, like it was against Frieza. If he could have done it at will, he would have BEFORE Cooler almost destroyed the planet.

When Trunks came back in time the first thing he asked was if Goku could turn into a Super Saiyan. I didn't mean it as the MAIN reason for him showing up, I just meant it was an important thing for him. Even if he's warned about the androids and survives the heart virus, what would be the point if he couldn't even turn Super Saiyan at will?

[Turin]

Ah ok, sorry, I misunderstood you. Seems like I have to rewatch that movie though, as Goku not being able to turn ssj at will seems very weird.

And lol, i was thinking of the wrong Cooler movie. It's true that he only turned ssj at the very last moment, but I always simply considered that his stubborness. We all know DB characters like to hide their power till the last moment. Anyway, that was just my view on it back when I watched it. And regardless of that, I can find a flaw in almost all movies that prevent them from being canon.

Hmm, though you say ssj required a life and death situation, but that is not true. The trigger to turn ssj was strong emotions (and I think those emotions were supposed to be opposite of your character, though I'm not sure on that).

And lastly about Trunks coming to the past, I doubt it was to check Goku's ability to turn into a ssj. It's more likely that he wanted to check Goku's general power. After all, Trunks was aware that both himself and Gohan were able to transform at will, so why wouldn't Goku. And Goku could easily have learned that in those 3 years, if couldn't already.

[derpkitteh]

i thought goku went ragemode after the bird died in his hand in the cooler movie? it's been forever since i saw it, but i'm pretty sure it was either then or shortly after it.

[rarhyx]

Basically the movies that CAN fit based on both the power scaling and the appearance of characters (in both how they look and the whether or not they're alive) are Garlic Junior

No.
why? krillin didn't know Goku had a son before radditz appeared. and well... Goku was killed in that fight.
Garlic Jr. COULD NOT happen. (atleast not the manga-universe-timeline)

[Deleted]

The two TV specials, however, are considered fully canon in terms of timeline and story. Mostly because one is kind of a prequel (even though Bardock started out as a filler character ^^) and the other is an alternate timeline where Trunks actually comes to the timeline of the series.

Filler is when an anime adaptation stretches out the story more than the original source-manga did (a lot of the time with new content. e.g. characters, plot arcs etc). Bardock, however did actually appear in one panel of Toriyama's original DBZ manga, so he technically didn't originate as a filler character.
An example of a filler character in DBZ would be Marron (Krillin's girlfriend) as she never once appeared in the manga.

[GennGreymane]

Didnt babidi appear in the show before the manga?

[Zanito44]

a big movie time-line fuck up thing was with the hirudegarn movie. trunks getting his sword from tapion couldn't have happened, because the androids were already dead, goku was super saiyan 3, and everyone else would shit on the androids as well. though really, i always looked at dbz time lines working like it's believed to work irl. meaning when trunks travels through time, he doesn't stay in the same reality, he goes to another that isn't as far ahead as his.

Well there were three timelines due to the interference of time-travel. The Prime timeline which is probably future Trunks' timeline. The current which was made by Trunks interfering with the medicine and with Dr. Gero making himself into a cyborg while also releasing 16. Then there is the timeline in which Cell killed future Trunks after he left back to the future and stole his time machine to go back to the past to hunt for the present day and alive androids. So you're more or less right.

[Deleted]

I still think the Future Trunks timeline doesn't make a lot of sense. They could've used the Namekian dragonballs to wish back everyone who died, Piccolo could have fused with Kami and defeated all the Androids. But no... they had to build a time machine.

Well, I guess Goku would still be dead though, since he died of natural causes. But besides that, all the others could be saved. Even after the timeline was saved we still don't see Trunks making an effort to bring them all back.

[Deleted]

I still think the Future Trunks timeline doesn't make a lot of sense. They could've used the Namekian dragonballs to wish back everyone who died, Piccolo could have fused with Kami and defeated all the Androids. But no... they had to build a time machine.

Well, I guess Goku would still be dead though, since he died of natural causes. But besides that, all the others could be saved. Even after the timeline was saved we still don't see Trunks making an effort to bring them all back.

I think future Trunks wasn't aware that the Namekians survived nor of king Kai, Bulma was maybe but then how would he communicate with a being (king Kai) in this example if had never done it before and how would king Kai recieve that message then?
Bulma could've created a spaceship aswell just like her father did for Goku but how would they know where new Namek is?
And even then if they would find it you really think the Namekians would just let him wish 3 wishes to a complete and total stranger for them?
And even if he says hes Goku's and the rest of teams friend how would they believe him it's not like he could ask it to them?

So it is best to let hes timeline for what it is...

[Pendulous]

I think future Trunks wasn't aware that the Namekians survived nor of king Kai, Bulma was maybe but then how would he communicate with a being (king Kai) in this example if had never done it before and how would king Kai recieve that message then?
Bulma could've created a spaceship aswell just like her father did for Goku but how would they know where new Namek is?
And even then if they would find it you really think the Namekians would just let him wish 3 wishes to a complete and total stranger for them?
And even if he says hes Goku's and the rest of teams friend how would they believe him it's not like he could ask it to them?

So it is best to let hes timeline for what it is...

Easy. King Kai connects to the new Guru (I forget his name). Talks them into getting all the Z Fighters back. King Kai knows what's up. Really, all that should have happened pretty damn soon.

[Deleted]

Easy. King Kai connects to the new Guru (I forget his name). Talks them into getting all the Z Fighters back. King Kai knows what's up. Really, all that should have happened pretty damn soon.

I agree with that king Kai can communicate with future Trunks or Moori but I think that in the back of hes head it's best to keep them dead there arn't any evil scientists or people around in future Trunks timeline so why get the strongest in the universe back alive for no threat.
The only exception might be Buu but I think supreme kai knows that earth is for 99.99999999999999999% dead, so it would form not a single threat so he decides not to tell anything either.
And otherwise they will find a solution later.

[Deleted]

Easy. King Kai connects to the new Guru (I forget his name). Talks them into getting all the Z Fighters back. King Kai knows what's up. Really, all that should have happened pretty damn soon.

That shit is too late. If a person has been dead for over a year, you can't wish them back to life with the Dragon Balls.

Plus, who's to say King Kai knew what was happening on Earth? He's not omniscient - he has to focus on a place (like, dial-in) to know what's going on there, and even then, he has to have someone's ki to focus on. If he doesn't have cause to do so, he would be in the dark just as much as anybody.

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Didnt babidi appear in the show before the manga?

Not to my knowledge, no. Are you thinking of Garlic Jr per chance?

[GennGreymane]

Out team four star havin some fun

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No I checked the wiki I was right, Babidi did appear in the anime before the manga.

[Deleted]

Easy. King Kai connects to the new Guru (I forget his name). Talks them into getting all the Z Fighters back. King Kai knows what's up. Really, all that should have happened pretty damn soon.

I agree. King Kai decides to contact people in the main timeline as well, why would he just ignore them in Future Trunk's timeline? Besides, shouldn't Goku be with King Kai when he's dead?

[Zoma]

I agree. King Kai decides to contact people in the main timeline as well, why would he just ignore them in Future Trunk's timeline? Besides, shouldn't Goku be with King Kai when he's dead?

I picture it like this. Goku dies from heart virus and goes to King Kai's. After a while, he gets bored out of his mind because of bad jokes and no more real training. King Kai takes him on a trip to the rest of Otherworld for better training.

Meanwhile, androids appear and kick Earth's ass. The Z-fighters die, and head to King Kai's unaware that King Kai isn't there at the moment. They get there and can't figure out where to find King Kai, since Bubbles can't speak English and Gregory came down with a bad case of anime-only character. After the year long rez deadline on the Dragon Balls is over, Goku and King Kai finally return, and realize that they may have really fucked up. Everyone feels bad. A little while later, Gohan joins them and gives Goku a "Where the fuck were you?" for not being around when they needed to contact Namek, but he's used to dad not being around anyway.

Years later, Trunks goes into a time machine, stuff happens, he comes back and kills the androids and Cell. Everyone celebrates. Meanwhile, in Hell, Vegeta glories in the fact that his son is now the strongest warrior in the universe. Take that, Kakkarot and Kakkarot's son.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Then couldn't Baba have done something? You think she would've noticed that the earth was torn to all hell and maybe warned someone about it like Yemma or gotten the news across to Goku. She can transport freely through otherworld can't she? Just pop over to Grand Kai's planet and let Goku/King Kai know, unless you mean they went somewhere else.

I like the story and the idea of what happened, but you gotta admit it does have its plot holes. In order for people to get to heaven/hell they have to pass through Yemma. You'd think he would know something is going down if all the Z fighters started popping up left and right.

Yeah, but doesn't it have to be a universal threat like Buu for him to interfere though?

[GennGreymane]

[the0o]

where is that from?