Legendary Daggers talks here please...

[Sesshou]

Actually, there was a method to my madness on that post and I was not obfuscating, stating anything incorrectly, nor making anything unclear. That you want to add that level of distraction is your own bit not mine. It would take 3 seconds to realize why I said what I did: Even if the tank spec for ferals was granted a legendary, it would also be subsequently available to the 'dps' spec (within the same talent tree).

I have no objections either way. I was simply clarifying, that's all. Don't get your knickers in a knot.

Well if it was a FERAL legendary yes. The thing you were responding to was about tanking legendaries. If it was actually tanking focused, meaning had dodge for one of the 2 secondary stats, and the legendary proc or whatever was completely useless for dps, then you wouldn't be using it to dps with. Now sure it could be a dps statted weapon with a dps special and technically you could use it as a bear to tank with, but its not a "tank" legendary at that point like he was talking about but a feral one.

[Deleted]

Fury of the Sunwell patch was released around the end of March 2008, with Kil'jaeden locked until May 20th. SK Gaming managed the world first kill on the 24th.
The bow has a 1 in 20 (taken from wowhead) chance to drop. Dont know about other people experience with Sunwell but my guild never got past M'uru before WOTLK was released in October (think I managed Brutallus before I went sleeper for the summer). We're talking around 4 months, over the slack summer season before the bow was out dps'd by lvl 80 blues.

I hope Blizz takes this sort of thing into account if they ever do a legendary in the last major content patch before an expansion again. Hopefully they'll at least make the legendary competitive for the first tier of raiding for the new expansion.

Just puuting in a quote from a post I did awhile back - looks like the Rogues will get the last legendary of this current expansion and you have to wonder how long they'll have to enjoy it....
From a hunter POV I can't see the problem with making the daggers open to the hunter class as long as any proc also affects ranged, although hopefully Blizz would also sync the 1H and 2H Agi enchants at the same time. Weapon speed, dps and damage wouldn't mean much and the only stats we'd be interested in would be the same ones as a generic rogue would need - Agility.
Although given the PvE class imbalance you'd probably see a hunter with them (at least with my guild since we don't have any regular rogue raiders) before rogues in that case.

[Sesshou]

I'm aware of that to which I was responding. And to address shadowboy's comment, even if it was a tanking proc, that wouldn't be the most important thing to a feral cat. What would matter would be the weapon dps (which obviously would be better than just about anything available) and the stats on the weapon itself. The proc would be immaterial for a cat, and I don't think anyone argues that.

With regards to your question specifically, dodge can be reforged down 40% to a useful stat (that's the only tanking specific secondary stat for druids really). When it comes down to it, my point above still holds true. Statwise, it would still be superior to all other options for dps. So, when looking at this, it's not like a warrior/paladin tank (1h weapon) and a lot closer (though not identical) to a DK tank for similar reasons.

If it's just easier to argue to argue, then skip the reply. I'm not doing this to advocate any position (for or against rogue legendaries). So, there is no need to flame. Sit and think for a few seconds to realize the implications rather than blast a reply back.

Uh you think it will have higher dps why? The last 2 are the same ilvl as another weapon from the same instance and have the same weapon dps and spell power. So please tell me why you would want it if 60% of one of the secondary stats was useless for dps? Also if it were tanking oriented, the gem sockets probably wouldn't be red, and there would probably be more stam on it in relation to agi.

[Sesshou]

Ah, it's clear you're not reading the post and just blasting a reply back. Good for you (in a sarcastic sort of way). Weapon dps for melee weapons {and exempting caster weapons} (specifically legendary) tends to be greater than weapons of the current (and next) tier. That is intended. Again, a few seconds of thought would have yielded this conclusion, but you spent it on a thoughtless reply instead. Bravo.

You are accusing me of not reading? I just flat out told you that you are wrong. The last legendaries have IDENTICAL weapon dps to weapons in their tier (or spell power for the staff). Read that last sentence and take a good minute to comprehend it please.

Edit:
Perhaps you need a visual aid, enjoy these 2 links:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50730
http://www.wowhead.com/item=49623

Same dps, same raid, same item level.

[Sicarius87]

Will do rogue legendary dagger work like Shadowmourne or Dragonwrath? Kill that, collect 25 of that superoverpriced material for the patch, or will it be an unique revamped quest?

What do you think?

From the sound of it, its just a really long quest line that will require a lot of pick pocketing (probably like you had to do for the Insane title) and other rogue-esque things. Will also cost a good amount of gold. I honestly dont think we will have to collect anything in a raid.

Hooray a single class legendary.

It will get nerfed once people start using it for pvp and be totally worthless.

Thats the purpose of a legendary. It will not get nerfed.

[Vurtago]

I will start by saying I didn't read the entire thread so sorry if I am repeating but.....everyone crying that only rogues get this legendary just stfu. Rogues are the only class that has nothing to offer a raid other then dps and an interupt , we have no buffs our recuperate doesn't do much unless no one is attacking, all vanish does is save our repair bill and it doesn't even work the way it supposed to lately , but we are still here waiting biding our time and I think this is blizzards way of saying they haven't completely forgotten us .

[Grindfreak]

I will start by saying I didn't read the entire thread so sorry if I am repeating but.....everyone crying that only rogues get this legendary just stfu. Rogues are the only class that has nothing to offer a raid other then dps and an interupt , we have no buffs our recuperate doesn't do much unless no one is attacking, all vanish does is save our repair bill and it doesn't even work the way it supposed to lately , but we are still here waiting biding our time and I think this is blizzards way of saying they haven't completely forgotten us .

Just to correct, we do bring things to a raid as debuffs, debuffs that provide a damage increase to a large portion of the raid, then we also have tricks of the trade, and various utility such as enrage dispels, slows, etc.

[AceofHarts]

Just to correct, we do bring things to a raid as debuffs, debuffs that provide a damage increase to a large portion of the raid, then we also have tricks of the trade, and various utility such as enrage dispels, slows, etc.

our slow is immune on almost everything, our interrupt is useful on one boss fight, our dps is mediocre at best (sans cleave), i havent had but one shiv use in 2 entire tiers of raiding, tricks is more or less a dps cooldown now. i don't mean to sound arguemenative but most our utility is lackluster when you compare it to battle rezz, tranq, rallying cry, etc.

[Grindfreak]

Something is more than nothing, which was my point.

[Sesshou]

Something is more than nothing, which was my point.

I see what you are saying too, but I think when most people say rogues don't bring "anything" they really mean "hardly ever bring anything meaningful." Basically everything we can do is either inferior to what some one else can do, is incredibly common, or basically just benefits us. Our one really useful gimmick (granted hunters had a similar one first) has now been degraded into something like mage FM and no longer has any real raid utility. So when you compare us to say a feral dps (probably the class/spec most similar to a rogue), in comparison we offer jack crap and they offer bres, innervate, enrage dispel (though i think LK was the last time it was useful on a boss encounter), kings, sunder, 5% crit. Dps warriors use to be in a similar position, but now they have raid stand so yeah... seems like we got the short stick on the homogenization to me.

Honestly, my vote for legendary effect is a raid buff. Perhaps something similar to the 8/8 hunter t2 bonus.

Edit: I just remembered how I used the same argument about raid utility shortly before cata launch and the responses were "omg we are getting smoke bomb, no one else can offer that" and it kinda made me lol a bit.

[sourmonkey]

well i would agree with key points of it being class specific and that being a issue with past legendarys being multi class equipable . ie Warglaives of Azzinoth ,Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings,Shadowmourne and the most recent Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest...

but there was the "Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury" which was a hunter onlyish item so this wouldn't be blizzards first attempt at a singled out class Legendary

will be interesting to see the questline and how the daggers will fit into the story

[kilj]

I love those who QQ about it, I mean really ya it would be awesome to have them as a rogue, but I just PvP only.... I wont ever get umm, but hey I did just save money on my car insurance!!!!

[The Chad]

Anyone else feel like these daggers are Blizzard's way of saying "Here, have something shining for all the crap you went through in this expansion."? After all, we are still the least beneficial class in a raid setting bringing very little buffs/debuffs as well as mediocre damage. Then there's Subtlety being the only competitive PvP spec through the whole expansion, a problem that Blizzard has made no attempts at all to rememdy to date. And remember the whole Rogue revamp that was coming in at the beginning of Cataclysm that just turned out to be a buff to Rupture for Assassination, giving Combat Rogues a key to hit in lie of SS to 5 Combo Points, and a failed attempt to bring Subltety into PvE* (which they really didn't change much from WotLK, still spam Backstab while keeping 3 finishers up but now it's 3.5 with Serrated Blades).

Not only that, but making a Dagger viable for Combat? I'm not going to hold my breath until I see some stats on these things. Combat is going to be absolutely sacked by the normalization, and if they increase weapon damage to compensate then Subtlety would get a huge boost which most likely make them a threat outside of Shadowdance in PvP(which would be nice though). And then Assassination is just "meh" to that weapon damage and if they make it improve poisons, it's going to do so much more for Assassination than the other two specs. I honestly can't think of a way for all 3 specs to benefit on a somewhat equal level without making Rogues horrifically OP (keyword horrifically, it's alright if we're a little OP'd from a legendary).

*Not to say that Subtlety isn't viable, just that it's too much of a pain for no benefit at best.

[Nifflevar]

Im happy combat gets to use this without a DPS loss
ASSUMING they do it right
Now Im curious, will we be using Backstab or Sinister Strike?

To expand on the last point, Im basically asking if it modifies into behaving like a sword ingame or what

Stuffs.....the interview said they will make it so combat rogues can still Sinister Strike....so no modifications to our rotation if they implement it the way GC explained it

[Herrenos]

A rogue legendary still strikes me as bizarre. I don't really mind it, but val'anyr and the glaives and smourne were all big plot-centric items.

This is just kinda... "huh?".

I honestly thought it would be 1h agi axes for the shamanz. (and rogues).

---------- Post added 2011-09-20 at 03:26 AM ----------

Stuffs.....the interview said they will make it so combat rogues can still Sinister Strike....so no modifications to our rotation if they implement it the way GC explained it

Equip: increases your sinister strike weapon damage by X. Current text:
An instant strike that causes 200 damage in addition to 100% of your normal weapon damage.

They'll just make the dagger's on-equip increase your SS's additional damage modifier by X amount. Like if it was ilvl 391, the average weapon damage for a 1.8 speed dagger is 1121. The average weapon damage for a 2.6 speed axe is 1619.

If they made Equip: Causes your Sinister Strikes and Revealing Strikes to deal an additional 500 base damage that would fix it.

Or make it like Hemo:

An instant strike that deals 155% weapon damage ((155 * 1.45)% if a dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from Bleed effects for 1 min. Awards 1 combo point.

[Resentful]

A rogue legendary still strikes me as bizarre. I don't really mind it, but val'anyr and the glaives and smourne were all big plot-centric items.

This is just kinda... "huh?".

I honestly thought it would be 1h agi axes for the shamanz. (and rogues).

---------- Post added 2011-09-20 at 03:26 AM ----------



Equip: increases your sinister strike weapon damage by X. Current text:
An instant strike that causes 200 damage in addition to 100% of your normal weapon damage.

They'll just make the dagger's on-equip increase your SS's additional damage modifier by X amount. Like if it was ilvl 391, the average weapon damage for a 1.8 speed dagger is 1121. The average weapon damage for a 2.6 speed axe is 1619.

If they made Equip: Causes your Sinister Strikes and Revealing Strikes to deal an additional 500 base damage that would fix it.

Or make it like Hemo:

An instant strike that deals 155% weapon damage ((155 * 1.45)% if a dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from Bleed effects for 1 min. Awards 1 combo point.

I can see them making Sinister strike work with all daggers ahahah

[Theleklol]

Maybe it'll make Sinister Strike always generate a second combo point? O.o

[AverageForumTroll]

WoW wont be here in 2-3 years.

The world ends in 2012 + there will be new games, blizzard will move their focus onto that titan game.

Is it just me or did no one else read in the interview where Greg Street said they were going to have at least 2-3 more expansions?

[Sesshou]

I can see them making Sinister strike work with all daggers ahahah

I can too and the mere thought pisses me off to no end. Pretty much guaranteed that I will reroll next expansion if all 3 specs are pigeonholed into daggers. If its just for next tier with the legendaries, I'd tolerate it.

[Roose]

No sir, I don't like it.