Why has Blizzard become so obsessed with PUGS?

[Ant Man]

My warrior got his wrath (T2) helm off an onyxia lvl 60 pug, and this was before my guild could even down her, think it was like 2 or 3 weeks before they did. I have been in raid pugs since vanilla.

I think blizz is making them a huge priority because when people quiet or otherwise complain it's that they cant get into raids bc of schedule or something, looking for raid kinda fixes that. Or maybe not enough players do raid and blizzard is trying to increase that number.

[Yumisara]

PUGs are available for people who can't raid or dungeon with a main group, allowing casuals more access to things in this game. I don't see how pugging is an issue, it's annoying with bad people, but not an issue.

I personally don't like pugs, but I can get gear with my alts in pugs.

[tigojones]

I was pugging back in TBC. At first, it was because a couple guild mates of mine were trying to convince our guild to transfer servers off a lowest-of-the-low pop realm and onto one where we could recruit enough people to raid more than Kara. Took a couple weeks to get people over, so most of my raiding time was in PUGs.

These days, we have scheduled raid-times for progression content, two-nights a week for each group. Any other raiding is done at your convenience.

[Kimd]

Money, it's a crime.
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie.
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today.
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise that they're
giving none away.

[kage]

I have been playing World of Warcraft for about 6 years now, During World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade & most of World of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (Up to about ICC) PUG'ing was UNHEARD off, It never happened. It was simple, You didn't have a guild or time! You didn't raid!

When Blizzard nerfed ICC it opened the floor gate of PUG'ing. Suddenly people who had never raided a day in there life become "experts" in raiding.

The way raiding used to be is you got together with a bunch of people from the your guild on vent and spent hours going through a raid, Having a good time getting gear, talking & learning new encounters. Now when I look at trade chat it hurts my eyes "LFM FOR EPICSLY HARD RAIDSRSS!!!!!! LINK ACHIEVEMENST!!! OR NU INV FOR YOU LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!11" Then if someone makes a mistake in the PUG raid they get flamed like they have just killed a puppy! "WUT TEH HELL NUB LERN2PLY YOUR FKCIKING CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!1LOOT BAN LOLOLO"

If anyone ever spoke like that in my guild to any other player they would get kicked out the guild so fast. Raiding is suppose to be a fun way to spend your time but people who have only ever raided in PUG's are not experiencing that. There experiencing these absolute arse-hole "Elitists" who wouldn't survive one raid in a guild.

Now I admit it, I have PUGGED raids before, Once or twice. The way players act yelling, name calling, ninja'ing items. It would make anybody who wants to raid think again.

Why have Blizzard suddenly become so obsessed with "EVERYONE" seeing there content. Yes people are seeing your content, But are they enjoying it? Most likely no because they have been group with the people who every other guild avoids.

Your thoughts?

I've seen those chats only rarely is it one of "those" If you see messages already blaring alarm bells that it's @!#%^ don't join if you're in a pug & they start harrasing folks no reason and you can't get people to kick his/her/their sorry @sses then leave! Furthermore people in guilds or who don't have one currently can only pug. I have primarly been in guilds that didn't dungeon or raid so I've had to pug I find that if you are kind to the other members you'll find they want more than anything the same thing to have a fun time without all those hassles.

P.S. I've been on as long as you and I've seen people trying to set up raids and dungeons with random folk from trade chat since I joined

[Blackeyecycle]

Why wouldn't they be? This game is for casuals. They have way more complaints about people not being able to access content then the ladder.

[Papalenin]

ZA, Kara, Gruuls, Mags, and 3/5 SSC/ 3/4 TK were pugged quite frequently on my server (And my server was absolutely horrendous. No guild downed Muru prenerf and only 2 guilds on our high pop server cleared SWP after 3.0 hit and before wrath was released). Pugging has been alive and well for a LONG time. It's no surprise that blizz is catering to people who for what ever reason refuse to join a decent casual guild in order to raid. I'm just frustrated that they're making it easy mode. Just keep it on normal mode. If pugs can't clear it then that comes with the pugging territory. Personally, I was hoping it would match you with people of similar experience for the selected tier and have it remain on normal mode but I guess that was too much to hope for given the playing ability of most wow players.

[Aelreth]

Men lie, women lie, numbers dont lie.

Cata has been a failure, it is the only expansion to drop subs and blizzard is searching for a reason why.

One of the biggest new changes in cata was the development of the guild focus. IMO blizzard thinks that was a bad way to go because it limits people with less time to play enjoyment of the game so they are trying to remedy that.

This is my my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Deleted]

Pugging started in ICC? really? what happening to ToC? what happened to Naxx?

[Jurwi]

I have been playing World of Warcraft for about 6 years now, During World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade & most of World of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (Up to about ICC) PUG'ing was UNHEARD off, It never happened. It was simple, You didn't have a guild or time! You didn't raid!

What the fuck are you talking about? I remember even doing MC PuG's back in Vanilla!

Besides, the potential PuG'ers are a by far bigger target audience than hardcore raiders.

[Rozaparks]

I've been playing since Patch 1.5 (when Battlegrounds first came out) and I did my fair share of pugging back in Original World of Warcraft. The thing is that most of the pugs were directed by the top guild on the server, so it was more of a Guild alt/friend run. Real pugging didn't start on my server until Burning Crusade.

What I am concerned with is how little the average player seems to care about their performance. No, I don't believe in having to completely out-gear the content before you seem eligible to participate. What bothers me, especially in the LFD we have now is that people just don't care. They won't gem properly, they won't enchant properly, and they will meet the requirements for Troll heroics by a literal single ilvl. Yeah they have every right to the content that I do, but I want to play with someone that will at least take 10 mins to read a thread about what gems and enchants they should have.

This is all coming from a Healer point of view. I hate healing bare-minimum ilvl idiots that are in almost full greens or DPS gear that queue as Tank that stack Stam. They are hard to heal. How will we be able to stop this in LFR? People like that don't deserve to see the content until they halfway care about their optimization. We can't simply kick them from the LFR because their kicking system is broken.

[Azaile-]

Pugs were massive on my server around the end of vanilla. TBC Kara up to mag was generally run in pugs. People didn't really bug TK or SSC till well into the black temple phase, but there was alot of Hyjal pugs even when it first came out. In wrath i don't think there was ever a time when pugging wasn't the acceptable norm.

[Styxz]

Pugging did NOT start in ICC...

Pugs were tended to have more success after the 30% nerf, but they did not start out of the blue.

[Strikesuit]

What bothers me, especially in the LFD we have now is that people just don't care. They won't gem properly, they won't enchant properly, and they will meet the requirements for Troll heroics by a literal single ilvl. Yeah they have every right to the content that I do, but I want to play with someone that will at least take 10 mins to read a thread about what gems and enchants they should have.

I think Blizzard has erred greatly by tuning daily heroic dungeons and normal raids with the expectations that people be fully optimized. As a player with a lot less time, I would appreciate a game that allows for single player progression or allows me to carry scrub players because that's all I have time to find. Unfortunately, Cataclysm hasn't offered a meaningful avenue for either approach.

[ElvenArcher]

We used to pug all the way back in pre-BC. It was freaking hard to always get 40 people to either, 1. Stay on for hours or 2. Get them to be there at the start, so we always pugged 10-15 people from other guilds or from word to mouth. And we didn't even have armory checks back then.

As for dungeons, it was half the time done word to mouth out of "LFM" in the back-then world LFG channel. That's why the auto LFG system made things easier, too many noobs not caring about reputation since their groups are always random. Back in the day if people knew you for being bad you either learned how to fing play or everyone knew you as "that person".

Pugging's old school, get with the times daddy-o.

Also, the people who have maintained the usage of the word vanilla over the years so as to make it a common term today should really, really diaf.

[Crackleslap]

i only started playing at the start of wotlk (Yes wrath baby, QQ more) my servers trade was flooded with PUGS! Absolutely FLOODED I TELL YA. Also, i like PUGS as well because im a reserve in my guild, therefor i don't get to raid with my guild much, working my way up though.

[Khaas the Insane]

This almost feels like a troll, but I'll bite. The gaming experience you have is not necessarily the gaming experience of everyone else. Your server alone is not indicative of every other server. Unfortunately (for you) Blizzard is going to do things you don't agree with sometimes, what you have to do is ask yourself is it enough to quit over?

Pugging has existed in MMOs for a long time, and it's not going to go anywhere in the foreseeable future. Sorry, but that's how it is. I can remember the days of pugging Nagafen in EverQuest a decade ago. And now, I take an alt and pug Firelands. Ultimately, I think it comes down to finding what works for you (not what you think should work for everybody else). For me, I raid with my guild and I enjoy it. And I either do an alt raid with my guild, or pug with said alt. The quality of life changes Blizzard is implementing are frankly welcome.

[Nero Duskwind]

I have been playing World of Warcraft for about 6 years now, During World of Warcraft, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade & most of World of Warcraft: Wrath Of The Lich King (Up to about ICC) PUG'ing was UNHEARD off, It never happened. It was simple, You didn't have a guild or time! You didn't raid!

When Blizzard nerfed ICC it opened the floor gate of PUG'ing. Suddenly people who had never raided a day in there life become "experts" in raiding.

The way raiding used to be is you got together with a bunch of people from the your guild on vent and spent hours going through a raid, Having a good time getting gear, talking & learning new encounters. Now when I look at trade chat it hurts my eyes "LFM FOR EPICSLY HARD RAIDSRSS!!!!!! LINK ACHIEVEMENST!!! OR NU INV FOR YOU LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!11" Then if someone makes a mistake in the PUG raid they get flamed like they have just killed a puppy! "WUT TEH HELL NUB LERN2PLY YOUR FKCIKING CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!1LOOT BAN LOLOLO"

If anyone ever spoke like that in my guild to any other player they would get kicked out the guild so fast. Raiding is suppose to be a fun way to spend your time but people who have only ever raided in PUG's are not experiencing that. There experiencing these absolute arse-hole "Elitists" who wouldn't survive one raid in a guild.

Now I admit it, I have PUGGED raids before, Once or twice. The way players act yelling, name calling, ninja'ing items. It would make anybody who wants to raid think again.

Why have Blizzard suddenly become so obsessed with "EVERYONE" seeing there content. Yes people are seeing your content, But are they enjoying it? Most likely no because they have been group with the people who every other guild avoids.

Your thoughts?

This is absurd. For the better part of the 6.5 years I've been on WOW, I was a member and, at one point an officer, of a raiding guild that formed itself from the core of an organized MC Pug/Alt run in Vanilla. If you think pugging raids didn't exist prior to ICC, you've been living under a rock. In Vanilla and TBC, it wasn't as public as it is now because the tools weren't available in game and, as a consequence, the groups were better able to organize stable groups through social connections, guild alliances, and old-fashioned vouching for players who good impressions from prior experiences.

There always has been PUG raids.

There were 40 man pug MC's back in Vanilla. They had nice web signup sheets and everything. Basically first come, first serve with probably a core of 20 regulars. Most people don't have 10-20 RL friends to raid with so they go with strangers.

Blizzard is simply making it easier to play with strangers, and what you are seeing is the social bonds of WoW are breaking down because they are not as strong as people thought. People won't admit that the only reason they put up with some people is because they are there to give them something, mainly loot. When that group is no longer necessary, all the people that were simply there for loot move on to other pastures. The problem is so many people are moving on to random grazing that they are losing the little social bonds that did exist.

The social bonds are not the basis of why people are playing together anymore, its for loot. Before you were forced to develop those social bonds because if something were to happen where they get broken then more often than not you were setback months of time. Now you can jump in trade and probably get a PUG faster than an organized group.

This sums it up perfectly. Simply put, Blizzard's implementations of cross-server dungeons/raids, LFD, and now LFR, has increasingly facilitated the process of finding groups to raid with. However, the consequences of these facilities is that they have completely eroded the social aspects that add to the fun factor of an MMORPG.

No longer do you have a good population of players making a conscious effort to mentor and publicly exchange knowledge to improve their peers' class/role performances, but you have people parroting information found on sites such as Elitist Jerks or Arena Junkies and dismissively pointing new players there. No longer do you have players organizing PUGs via signup sheets, word-of-mouth, and inter-guild activity, but you have tools like LFD and LFR pooling a massive amount of uneducated, unprepared players with delusions of entitlement and elitism together where selfishness and impatience compound the the already high chances for failure.

Blizzard has trended this game towards being more "casual friendly," but how "casual friendly" is it really when Blizzard's good intentions of facilitating content and reward access have backfired and given way to an increasingly toxic social atmosphere?

[ElvenArcher]

This almost feels like a troll, but I'll bite. The gaming experience you have is not necessarily the gaming experience of everyone else. Your server alone is not indicative of every other server. Unfortunately (for you) Blizzard is going to do things you don't agree with sometimes, what you have to do is ask yourself is it enough to quit over?

Pugging has existed in MMOs for a long time, and it's not going to go anywhere in the foreseeable future. Sorry, but that's how it is. I can remember the days of pugging Nagafen in EverQuest a decade ago. And now, I take an alt and pug Firelands. Ultimately, I think it comes down to finding what works for you (not what you think should work for everybody else). For me, I raid with my guild and I enjoy it. And I either do an alt raid with my guild, or pug with said alt. The quality of life changes Blizzard is implementing are frankly welcome.

Dude, even if this were not a serious post, it has NOTHING to do with trolling. Stop abusing this goddamn expression on things which are harmless, it's so fing annoying.

[djahy]

Blizz noticed real life, and people like me that refuse to have to lock down a certain time 2-3 days a week for maybe 2-3 hours.

/thread