4.3 Arcane Compendium

[Swizzle]

I get that, but there has to be some math that's been done to prove that VPLC > HC TM ? I can't find any of it anywhere, and I'm certainly not good enough to do it by myself.

The math just gets you to the point I stated. 505 passive Int coupled with a minimum 2k DPS proc comes out to some heavy DPS in a single trinket.

[Shangalar]

I've posted around hir for a while now and i feel like I understand Arcane, but I have a question. Is it better to just spam arcane blast to 35% mana before evocation or is it better to use evocation immediately after cooldowns and procs finish?

[Swizzle]

I've posted around hir for a while now and i feel like I understand Arcane, but I have a question. Is it better to just spam arcane blast to 35% mana before evocation or is it better to use evocation immediately after cooldowns and procs finish?

If you use Evocation before 35% mana, you're wasting mana and therefore losing out on some extra AB in the fight.

[Deleted]

I've posted around hir for a while now and i feel like I understand Arcane, but I have a question. Is it better to just spam arcane blast to 35% mana before evocation or is it better to use evocation immediately after cooldowns and procs finish?

Spam AM down to 35%

mana=DPS
wasted mana = wasted DPS
evoc'ing before 35% = wasted mana

[Shangalar]

True but I can also break Evocation earlier and in certain cases, like when I use a Volcanic Potion during the burn phase, I can evocate into overflow and subsequent arcane blasts will be more powerful due to mastery, especially if you time them right to get rid of the overflow just as the potion runs out. Anyway, thanks, will modify my gameplay slightly.

Additionally: I can't believe I wrote 'hir' instead of here, /megafacepalm to myself

[Deleted]

Breaking evoction early is still wasted mana, you have very simple aims as an arc mage
1/ do not go over 100% mana
2/ on conserve keep mana around 95%
3/ on burn, burn mana that will push you over 100% when you add in evoc's mana

i can see where your going with the overflow being caught and used by VP but in an ideal situation you have 4sec to burn before VP runs out
unfortunitly its hard to count on ideal situations, after 15sec when your mana gem/AP finishes you will have to evoc straight away but chances are you will be mid cast which will drop your 4sec window lower plus you will have to make sure you have PoM ready to keep 4stacks at the end of evoc otherwise your starting again at 0 AB stacks
reread what swizzle worte about the burn phase and get magemanabars if you dont already, set it up to change colour below 95% and at 35% this way you can focus on whats happening in the game and you can notice you mana levels with the cornor of your eye

[neilsonlin]

Would like to ask a question about stats, i.e: Mastery, Crit and Haste

In the opening thread you say that the stat values for Crit are above Haste, and I know that with high gear levels the soft cap for Haste is inevitable, though at lower gears(360ish) Is it viable to aim for soft haste cap or just stack mastery and reforge haste to crit?

[Shangalar]

At lower gear levels, 360-ish as you say, it is best to have the Tier 11 4-set bonus, which will allow you to have silly low amounts of haste (around 500 I think), making mastery and then crit much more valuable. At any gear level without T11 4-set bonus you should aim for about 1300-1400 haste, even though the soft cap is 1768.

[Heilige]

Would like to ask a question about stats, i.e: Mastery, Crit and Haste

In the opening thread you say that the stat values for Crit are above Haste, and I know that with high gear levels the soft cap for Haste is inevitable, though at lower gears(360ish) Is it viable to aim for soft haste cap or just stack mastery and reforge haste to crit?

Crit won't exceed haste until you're beyond the haste soft cap (and Heroic VPLC helps inflate Crit's value). If you read the thread the entire OP you'd have seen the section regarding haste soft cap.

Haste Soft-Cap

This is one that is, for whatever reason, controversial. The debate has come down to an argument about Haste and Mastery. While there is non clear answer (since both stats are actually very valuable), I can explain both sides of the argument and state my personal opinion on the matter. First and foremost, if you're in BiS gear, you'll be at the soft-cap whether you like it or not. So for a fully progressed Arcane Mage, this isn't an issue. However, the problem comes up for people asking what stat is better and what they should go for. Again, you shouldn't pass up one stat and hinder the other. If anything, Crit is your weakest stat so it should be cut before the other two, but that's neither here nor there.

Now, Haste is awesome for Arcane simply due to the play style of the spec. It only has casted DD spells to deal damage. Logically speaking, maximizing your cast output is a great DPS gain, which makes Haste good for the spec. To that end, Haste also reduces your down time due to GCD reduction and a sped up Evocation. The down side of Haste is that it burns through mana quicker due to not speeding up Mage Armor ticks, but at higher gear levels, the complaint, while real, is almost trivial.

Mastery, on the other hand, simply increases your damage done. While the text makes it seem more complicated than it really is, the fact of the matter is that the stat increases your damage at all mana levels, but to slightly varying degrees. The higher your Master, the higher the max cap is when scaling down. It's a lot less complicated than Haste so I'm not going to go deeper into it. There is also no down side to Mastery so yay, another paragraph skipped.

Now, some people make the claim that the two stats are inherently counter productive, but that's not true. Haste doesn't change the mana cost of spells, so in reality, you still get the same number of spells out under the same mana levels, Haste simply gets them out faster. So, while it may seem you're spending less time under max mana, you're really not...you're just doing more damage since you can fit in more spells per fight. For me, Haste is the better stat than Mastery up to a point, but you should never forgo one for the other. That's all I'm including on this topic for now.

[Swizzle]

You need to be in IRC more dammit, I get bored easy and there's no Mages on Illidan I can talk to about things.

[Heilige]

You need to be in IRC more dammit, I get bored easy and there's no Mages on Illidan I can talk to about things.

@ the Phillies game right now... just checking the net everytime I stand in line for a beer/bathroom.

[Wilderness]

At lower gear levels, 360-ish as you say, it is best to have the Tier 11 4-set bonus, which will allow you to have silly low amounts of haste (around 500 I think), making mastery and then crit much more valuable. At any gear level without T11 4-set bonus you should aim for about 1300-1400 haste, even though the soft cap is 1768.

You can't get down to 1400 haste at a high gear level.

[DeathDefier]

You need to be in IRC more dammit, I get bored easy and there's no Mages on Illidan I can talk to about things.

Logoz? One of the most consistently high parsing mages I've seen in the past year.

I'm sure he's willing to talk about mage stuff. I've messaged him on youtube several times and he has answered any and all of my questions.

[Swizzle]

Logoz? One of the most consistently high parsing mages I've seen in the past year.

I'm sure he's willing to talk about mage stuff. I've messaged him on youtube several times and he has answered any and all of my questions.

Oh god...please don't bring that name up in terms of actual mechanics. It's like talking to Justin Bieber or Selena Gomez about music: sure, they sold millions and topped some charts, but you know it's not because of their knowledge or talent.

[lalaine]

Oh god...please don't bring that name up in terms of actual mechanics. It's like talking to Justin Bieber or Selena Gomez about music: sure, they sold millions and topped some charts, but you know it's not because of their knowledge or talent.

yeah, parsing well for the past year and doing a hell of a lot of theorycrafting on his own is a real bieber approach to high end raiding, you nailed it. hopefully i can be his selena gomez since i'm in the same raid with him. illidan mages- the adolescent pop stars of the mage world? good to know!

[Kinmaul]

yeah, parsing well for the past year and doing a hell of a lot of theorycrafting on his own is a real bieber approach to high end raiding, you nailed it. hopefully i can be his selena gomez since i'm in the same raid with him. illidan mages- the adolescent pop stars of the mage world? good to know!

Logoz ensures that the raid caters to his dps; rogues tricks him, warlocks DI him on alysrazor, and priests PI him. He did the same thing back in ICC. Is he a good mage? Sure. Do most mages have a raid that caters to their dps? No. He's a good mage who gets amazing parses because he's fed. Nothing wrong with that since that's how you play the WoL game, but don't act like he would pull the numbers he does without the treatment he gets.

Oh one I got one more: Does Swizzle wish he got the same treatment in raids that Logoz does? Most definately.

[Swizzle]

Logoz ensures that the raid caters to his dps; rogues tricks him, warlocks DI him on alysrazor, and priests PI him. He did the same thing back in ICC. Is he a good mage? Sure. Do most mages have a raid that caters to their dps? No. He's a good mage who gets amazing parses because he's fed. Nothing wrong with that since that's how you play the WoL game, but don't act like he would pull the numbers he does without the treatment he gets.

Oh one I got one more: Does Swizzle wish he got the same treatment in raids that Logoz does? Most definately.

I never did get that treatment. If you recall, when we tried to do it on BQL, we had people taunting and killing themselves, consequently wiping the raid to ensure I don't get first bite. In any case, I was referring more to the, "they're good because they have a huge team of people propping them up to ensure they're doing good, with little effort on their own" with the Biebs reference.

[lalaine]

Logoz ensures that the raid caters to his dps; rogues tricks him, warlocks DI him on alysrazor, and priests PI him. He did the same thing back in ICC. Is he a good mage? Sure. Do most mages have a raid that caters to their dps? No. He's a good mage who gets amazing parses because he's fed. Nothing wrong with that since that's how you play the WoL game, but don't act like he would pull the numbers he does without the treatment he gets.

Oh one I got one more: Does Swizzle wish he got the same treatment in raids that Logoz does? Most definately.

yes, i am aware of these things considering i am there with him. and yeah, its definitely how one plays the wol game. but to say something as unecessarily douchey as that he lacks knowledge and talent blows my mind. don't know what mage this swizzle person plays on illidan, but give me a fkn break here. rude as shit.

*** Infracted ***

[Swizzle]

yes, i am aware of these things considering i am there with him. and yeah, its definitely how one plays the wol game. but to say something as unecessarily douchey as that he lacks knowledge and talent blows my mind. don't know what mage this swizzle person plays on illidan, but give me a fkn break here. rude as shit.

Analogies are not rude, nor was it meant to be offensive. It was a joke made at the expense of a non-poster. It's funny that my Mage is my forum name, and I've been around longer than Logoz, but since I don't force raids to do my bidding, I'm not as well known. I made a judgment call from what I've seen from his videos and actually being in a PUG raid or two with the chap. Jumping to cancel your main nuke is not what I consider in-depth class knowledge. In any case, no more thread derailment from this point forward. That includes you Kinmaul.

[LogozRR]

Geez, why so much hate Swizzle? I don't read these forums often, but I saw this recently and then looked around some more. Apparently you've been hating on me since early ICC. What did I ever do to you? =( Since I don't post on these forums, I'm sorry if I've ever offended you in any way in-game. I am unaware if I did somehow.

I'm not an arrogant guy. I will never claim I'm the best mage in the world, or even close to it. I know a lot of the parses I get now and parses I got back in ICC were because I got fed everything. That's no surprise and I'm not denying it. However, like you and others have said, that's how you play the WoL game; we can all agree on that much at least. Now onto the reason I get these perks.

Ever since I joined Raiding Rainbows during ToGC progression, I was consistently #1 or at least top3 dps in guild on every fight (unless the fight favored melee) even without any special buffs like tricks/PI/innerv. You might not believe me, but since those parses are long expired, I have no way to prove it. You just have to believe me or talk to my guildies who were there at the time. I continued constantly proving myself to be one of the best dpsers in the guild, which is why I started getting the nice dps buffs in ICC.
From a progression standpoint, it would be foolish to not tricks/PI the highest dps (assuming threat isn't an issue). ToTT'ing the highest dps increases raid dps the most, which causes the boss die fastest. I'm not forcing the raid to do my bidding (I can't even if I wanted to, I'm not GM or even an officer). It's just the smart thing to do, and in the raid's best interest, to Tricks the highest dps, which is usually me even w/o tricks.

Now obviously, it goes without saying that I enjoy getting fed every buff under the sun, I mean, who wouldn't? ^_^ And I'll go as far as to say, nor am I ashamed to admit, that one of the reasons I remain in RR is because of the special treatment I get. I must admit, it feels nice.
I know I can easily make member status in any top5 US guild if I wanted to, but I'm humble enough to admit that I probably won't be the best player there nor will I be the best dps, which means I won't get special buffs or special treatment. I know I won't be the worst player there, but I won't be the best either. And as anyone can predict, without getting fed buffs, I won't parse as high. With how brutal WoL is these days, it's almost impossible to parse #1 on anything without getting some helpful buffs from other classes in the raid =D

In conclusion, you could accurately say that I enjoy being the big fish in a small pond (not a top3 US guild), rather than being an avg fish in the biggest lake (vodka/Premo,etc). Being in RR gives me a better chance to parse than a top3 guild, which I don't mind at all.
In the end, I'm satisifed with how fast my guild progresses.
I like our raid hours, raid atmosphere, and the ppl I raid with.
And lastly, I'm both joyous and grateful I get the opportunities to parse well with special buffs. What more is there to say?
So why all the hate? =)