Breaking Down Frost PVP Specs

[Skygoneblue]

** Up to date for 4.3.2 **

Ok, I've tried digging over at Arena Junkies, but that place is so full of mouthy children that it's hard to find the 1 good post buried in 8 pages of garbage.

What I'd like to do is get "the basics" of DK PVP specs in one place. There seem to be several schools of thought floating around, but I'm having trouble nailing down ALL of the pertinent information at once.

Here's what I've found thus far...

DW Frost + Reforge/Stack Mastery:
http://wowtal.com/#k=3u4mNLGq.b0w.deathknight.

Glyphs:
Prime: Howling Blast, Frost strike, Obliterate
Major: Stragulate, Anti-Magic Shield, Hungering Cold or Dark Succor (situational)
Minor: Horn of Winter, Resilient Grip, Blood Tap, Path of Frost

Tips:
- Unholy Presence for shorter GCD and movement speed
- Uses primarily Howling Blast to promote Runic Power generation, as well as Necrotic Strike (although, slightly less powerful as Threat of Thassarian doesn't affect Necrotic Strike)
- Has trouble generating RP compared to 2H due to lack of Might of the Frozen Wastes
- Never uses Obliterate because of poor Rune -> Runic Power conversion (poor ROI)
- Stacks Mastery as majority of damage (HB and FS) are affected

2H Frost + Reforge/Stack Mastery:
http://wowtal.com/#k=ekcPMmP9.b0w.deathknight.

Prime: Howling Blast, Frost strike, Icy Touch
Major: Stragulate, Anti-Magic Shield, Hungering Cold or Dark Succor (situational)
Minor: Horn of Winter, Resilient Grip, Blood Tap, Path of Frost

Tips:
- Unholy Presence for shorter GCD and movement speed
- Favors Necrotic Strike stacking
- Rarely uses Obliterate, with the exception of low-armor targets within kill range
- Generates tons of Runic Power compared to DW due to Might of the Frozen Wastes
- Prefers Mastery as a majority of damage is Frost-based, and crits come easily

Additional Info added by posters:
- Chillblains and Desecration don't stack technically. However, Desecration is taken as it provides a much larger AoE snare (albeit, in melee range).

I've managed to come across thread after thread of people debating which is better. For the sake of the public, please keep your opinions to yourself. I'd like this to be purely objective to get as much useful information in one place as possible.

With that said, if there's anything vital about either of those specs that I failed to mention, please let me know and I'll be happy to update the post.

Thanks everyone. I look forward to your responses!

[Shrakx]

hey there, good post that sums things up well. I would add a link to the 2 specs as well .

[Skygoneblue]

hey there, good post that sums things up well. I would add a link to the 2 specs as well .

And that brings up a fair question in itself. People "seem" to prefer the Unholy sub-spec for 2H as the Necrotic Strikes will proc Desecration. However, that talent is of slightly less use for DW spec. Still, that being said, the talents that Blood offers DW are seemingly lackluster as well.

Any additional insight on talents is definitely welcome!

[ardipithecus11]

Thought Chillibains and desecration didn't stack.

[Pr0ev0lution]

Thought Chillibains and desecration didn't stack.

they don't but desecration is better than chilblains, chilblains is only really picked up for the CoI root

[Skygoneblue]

Thought Chillibains and desecration didn't stack.

I believe the idea is that if your Frost Fever is dispelled, targets can still be snared. It's a good question though. I see a lot of high-ranked DKs taking that talent as Frost. There must be more to it.

[ardipithecus11]

I believe the idea is that if your Frost Fever is dispelled, targets can still be snared. It's a good question though. I see a lot of high-ranked DKs taking that talent as Frost. There must be more to it.

It leaves a 37 yard snare, howling blast is 10 yards.

[Skygoneblue]

It leaves a 37 yard snare, howling blast is 10 yards.

What exactly leaves a 37 yard snare? I'm not following your comment.

[ardipithecus11]

What exactly leaves a 37 yard snare? I'm not following your comment.

Desecration leaves a 37 yard AoE, HB is 10 Yards. Sorry for the poorly elaborated comment.

[Skygoneblue]

Desecration leaves a 37 yard AoE, HB is 10 Yards. Sorry for the poorly elaborated comment.

No worries - thanks for clarifying!

[Sykotic13]

A couple of things.

• 2H Frost PvP still wants to stack Mastery over Haste. Haste isn't a bad choice (it being our 2nd best Secondary stat), but Mastery is still better since it means more damage output. Especially with Howling Blast and Frost Strikes being our two primary damage dealing abilities in PvP.
• Both DW and 2H will do Necrotic Strike stacking. The difference in the amount of healing absorbed isn't that much between DW and 2H (maybe 500-1000 HP), but the damage done to the target is significantly different (3k standard, 6k crit with DW and 5k standard, 10k crit with 2H (using my gear as an example)) since Necrotic Strike does not benefit from the Threat of Thassarian talent which would allow the off-hand weapon to hit as well.
• The part about Frost Strike being used for RP dumping is redundant in both specs. They will both use Frost Strike to dump RP as nothing else is close to being as good. Not to mention Frost Strike is really the only way to proc Runic Empowerment. If your runes are on cooldown you want to be using Frost Strikes and hope that RE procs and you get back a rune.

[Deris]

Mastery is always better due to your opponents CC'ing, stunning/rooting/etc'ing you - very rarely if playing vs halfway decent opponents should you ever have the opportunity to really tee off on someone and do a full RP/rune dump. If you do, they should be dead.

[Skygoneblue]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll update the first post.

[Christoffer1989]

Nice post, I have a question about glyphs, whats to use for frost specc?^^

[Bsod]

Nice post, I have a question about glyphs, whats to use for frost specc?^^

Prime: Howling blast,Frost strike,Obliterate(2h) or frost fever (2*1h)
Major:Stragulate,Anti-Magic shield,Hungering Cold or Dark Succor if you really want to farm in this spec
Minor: Horn of Winter,Resilient Grip(even if its bugged sometimes),Blood tab

[Seref]

Why is Obliterate rarely used? Is it because Necrotic's absorb bypasses defense?

(My PvP build is the same as my PvE dps, since my other spec is for tanking/solo'ing old content. So I'm less inclined to drop Rime for Desecration...)

[Skygoneblue]

Obliterate is heavily affected by armor, and resilience. We can gem to bypass resistance, ergo, Frost Strike is our heavy hitter. In PvE gear, I've Obliterated over 80k in heroics. In PvP, I can't remember the last time I saw anything over 40k with Obliterate (crit).

Obliterate can be used against a clothie or rogue who is about to die anyway, but in almost all circumstances, it's best to NOT try for the super fast kill and continue stacking Necrotics and killing with Frost Strike.

[Seref]

I see... So even 1v1'ing against a non-healer, it'd still be best to use Necrotic+Howling vs Oblit (with Rime)?

Do you think having Rime over Desecration/Hand of Doom to retain a viable PvE spec is okay?

(I don't know where to spend my last 2 Talent Points. For a dual PvP/PvE build, should I get 2/2 Butchery, 2/2 Improved Frost Presence, or 2/3 Epidemic?)

[Ieft]

Smiley face

[Bsod]

Why is Obliterate rarely used? Is it because Necrotic's absorb bypasses defense?

in the most situations frost strikes does more dmg than obliterate so you will use your KM-Procs. for that.
also 1NS+1HB>Obliterate in dmg and same runic power reg.
also NS gives an undispellable slow+not affected by defense CDs/HB gives aoe slow and spread dots