Alignment and the added game value

[Kambei]

One thing that I have hated is leveling a new character, especially in WoW, due to the very repetitive nature ever time. I am really looking forward to a leveling experience that changes with you as you make choices. Play around with it and you can see a different story with each character you play.

But I am glad your alignment is something that is a part of how your story plays out and has nothing to do with what gear you can get.

[noahjam326]

you can hover over to see the alignment? I dont like that at all should be an element of risk in it surely?

Yes you can, but you don't have to. You can just press 1, 2, or 3 and select without ever looking. I think it would also be cool if you could turn them off in the interface options as well. I like that Bioware is giving players options on how to customize their experience.

[Deleted]

I am looking forward to see if they allow for a playstyle of levelling a Jedi, melee dps, without having you personally massacre many many mobs. Bioware had this way of overlooking such in Mass Effect, in that you can get high paragon, despite killing so many things. Sure, they were droids, geth or krogan, but the Force should not see things like that. You may be forced to go healing/support and have your companions do all the dirty work.

Can you truly level up without the need to kill so many conscious beings? I am looking forward to trying, and I think that playing a Dark Side Sith (anything dark side) will be far too easy, while trying to be a Light Side will offer a greater challenge.

[Deleted]

God damn it, when you make awesome posts like this I just want to play the game more and more, this is torture!!

[Deleted]

I still can't help to wonder how well a right-thru evil jediknight will turn out... I read a qoute somewhere that "being a dark, evil jedi don't suit the Jedi council very well". But of what I know the jedi council has an important role in a jedi's daily life? (A mechanic for that wich turns you into a Sith warrior in a case like that is way to much of an erotic dream I know but can't rly help to come up with it while thinking)

[Roose]

Can't wait to see what this is really like. My question is what happens if you do go total dark as jedi or light as sith? Do you still stay in the republic as a known dark sider or do you start hanging out with the empire? It seems like they would stop bringing you along on missions if you are constantly killing allies and thwarting republic plans.

All I can think about are the "choose your own adventure" books when I was a kid. Yes, I used to cheat on them

[Trollsbane]

It's ideology. A dark Jedi won't ever switch factions or hang with the Sith. He'll take active measures to eradicate them through brute force. For him, the ends always justify the means.

[philefluxx]

On the Min/Max thing, what Im concerned with is not so much DS vs LS but the in between, the greys. There has always been a debate in the KoToR games whether going fully DS or LS is best and that you can essentially gimp your character if you play it on the fence.

[Trollsbane]

They said there will be grey alignment gear as well.

[Roose]

It's ideology. A dark Jedi won't ever switch factions or hang with the Sith. He'll take active measures to eradicate them through brute force. For him, the ends always justify the means.

I gotcha. I guess the whole movie thing is confusing me because all I think of is Anakin going to the dark side and joining up with the empire and Vader trying to get Luke to cross over.

I guess I just need to accept it for what it is instead of taking it so literal.

[Osskssa]

LS/DS will not have stat advantages over eachother. They want you to play the game you want to play, and story choices (LS/DS) will have no bearing on endgame (statsand min/maxing).

Didnt they say that fully DS/LS or neutral gives you access to unique skills/spells...is that for certain or is that pinned on the wall on crazy?

---------- Post added 2011-09-28 at 07:46 PM ----------

I gotcha. I guess the whole movie thing is confusing me because all I think of is Anakin going to the dark side and joining up with the empire and Vader trying to get Luke to cross over.

I guess I just need to accept it for what it is instead of taking it so literal.

What i like is that seducing someone as a Jedi gives you DS points, just like Annakin......see women are EVIL! lols

[Adeodatus]

They said there will be grey alignment gear as well.

I'm hoping to see what some of this Gray gear looks like. Light and Dark obviously have some powerful visual themes to draw from, and I hope that holds true for the gray gear aswell.

[Northy]

What bothers me is how whatever your choices are, in the end, is anything really "different"? Is there actually anything significant that would be different from say, a Trooper who went full light side, one who was neutral, and a Trooper who went full dark side? After a few weeks of being max level, does any of it really still matter?

I'm not bashing the game, I'm just asking someone who's experienced this (ie Trollsbane) if your choices are really important at all in the end.

It doesn't matter if the end is the same for everybody. It's the light side/dark side choices you make on the journey to that end that will make or break the game.

[Makuul]

Play as a selfish money grubbing Smuggler who only cares about himself.
Be a Trooper that has no morality, and instead enjoys suffereing of others to further his career.
Act out your fantasy of a Jedi Knight or Consular who defies the Jedi council's peaceful wishes, and instead goes about with a dominant hand crushing those that don't live up to a personal code.
Be a Bounty Hunter that cares more about people than money.
Play as an Imperial Agent who gets his job done, but never at the expense of killing innocents.
Become a Sith who doesn't believe in torture and puts the well being of the people above that of the ideology of the Emperor.

There's a flaw inherent in part of this setup, however. Because this game pits factions against each other (a la WoW) rather than the traditional "good versus evil" role, the classes that are inherently amoral (the two soldier and spy pairings) can be tweaked light, dark, or grey without creating much in the way of a lore hole. It can be rationalized as "it doesn't matter what you do as long as you do it for your faction."

E.g.: the selfish smuggler, the mission focused but no innocent bystanders BH, the agent who prefers to protect and foster good relationships with empire citizens rather than torture and blackmail to maintain a more willing network of informants and assets, the ruthless trooper who had his family wiped by empire goons and will stop at nothing for revenge, etc.

The problem, however, rears its ugly head with the force users. Because the classes are both constricted by faction choice AND morality, it's much harder to justify an actual crossover character. Grey works just fine from either side (with Jolee Bindo as a perfect example - a Jedi who places pragmatism and the long view ahead of idealism), but since their classes are tied inherently to the force, which is a Good versus Bad dichotomy rather than just Republic versus Empire, you wouldn't actually be a "dark Jedi" or a Sith Inquisitor who puts the well being of people above your own pursuit of power, you actually (lore-wise) would then become essentially a Republic Sith or an Empire Jedi. As far as story and lore construction goes, the force user classes are as much a function of their actions as they are whether they can cast Force Choke or not.

I know people won't care about this as it pertains to game mechanics and faction balancing, and generally, neither do I frankly, but I think it's an inconsistency that's pretty big in their story-driven MMO. Anakin was a Jedi until he chose to become Sith, which is completely separate from the Republic/Empire character creation choice. The minute a force user steps well outside of their intended ideology, they don't become a renegade ruthless Jedi, they become a fallen Jedi who is now considered Sith by the Star Wars' universe own set of rules.

As I said, this would be stupid to balance mechanics-wise, but lore-wise, I think creates a gaping hole.

[GarGar]

Anakin was a Jedi until he chose to become Sith, which is completely separate from the Republic/Empire character creation choice. The minute a force user steps well outside of their intended ideology, they don't become a renegade ruthless Jedi, they become a fallen Jedi who is now considered Sith by the Star Wars' universe own set of rules.

Not completely true.

Revan became a fallen Jedi when he ignored the Jedi Council and set out on his own to explore the Dark Side and increase his power. He didn't become a Sith until years later, when he chose to create an army in the name of the Sith Empire and use it to attack the Republic and try to take over the galaxy, thus becoming Darth Revan.

Anakin became a fallen Jedi when he acted on his love for Padme and later started to consider Palpatine's offer to use the Dark Side to save her. It wasn't until Palpatine convinced Anakin to become his apprentice that Anakin finally subscribed to the philosophy of the Sith Empire and became Darth Vader. Had he not been indoctrinated by Palpatine he could have continued his life with Padme and his kids as a fallen Jedi, because it was only after Padme learned about Anakin becoming a Sith Lord, killing younglings and him trying to kill her for not loving him, that she lost the will to live thus allowing child birth to kill her.

It may seem like semantics, but there are fallen Jedi that do not support the Sith Empire, moreso in the Old Republic timeline than in the movies. They reject the Jedi Council's philosophy of "There is no emotion..." and don't consider themselves under the control of the Council, but they support the cause of the Republic overall. They are ostracized from the Jedi Order and usually go into exile, but are not hunted down as Sith until they actually, y'know, become Sith and start fighting for the Empire.

In the same way, a Light side Sith still fights for the Empire and freedom from the tyrannical Republic, but they have their own ethics and morals. They don't consider themselves Jedi any more than a fallen Jedi considers himself a Sith.

The Republic vs Empire fight is not strictly one of good vs evil, of light side vs dark side. When you choose your faction in SWTOR you're choosing your allegiance, not your alignment. It's up to the individual to decide whether they're good or evil.

[Nellise]

It's up to the individual to decide whether they're good or evil.

The funny thing is because you actually need to do something in an MMO, you end up slaughtering thousands of the opposing side no matter what, even if you're "Light". You're considered good if you don't kill "Joe Commander", but those other 50 people you just killed on the way to him don't matter apparently.

[GarGar]

The funny thing is because you actually need to do something in an MMO, you end up slaughtering thousands of the opposing side no matter what, even if you're "Light". You're considered good if you don't kill "Joe Commander", but those other 50 people you just killed on the way to him don't matter apparently.

This seeming paradox could be resolved by saying Larry Light-side acted in self defense after being attacked by Joe Commander's lackeys, who tried to stop Larry on his way to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the situation.

What determines whether you're Light or Dark is your intention. Killing them was an unfortunate outcome that you would have chosen to avoid if possible.

[Deleted]

Can you truly level up without the need to kill so many conscious beings? I am looking forward to trying, and I think that playing a Dark Side Sith (anything dark side) will be far too easy, while trying to be a Light Side will offer a greater challenge.

I don't know, if the story is told well, it might be very hard for people to kill that person who may or may not be innocent. I imagine Bioware will really put you to the test with some choices. What about your character's love interest? Will you listen to him/her or will you do what you want and force him/her to agree with it? There comes a point where someone is so dark that even his/her trusted companions fear you.