[Moonkin] Guide :: 5.4 Edition

[Wiyld]

Ok

Link to armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/Wiyld/simple

Im playing with Rawr and it keeps pushing me for more haste, I'm over the major cutoff and yet its willing to sacrifice hit for more haste when I'm significantly under cap. Now I understand how these programs work where they will give you an absolute value regardless of more practical things like what a pain in the ass it is to miss, but are the stat weights off that its valuing haste so much? I can only guess that it wants to push me toward 100% NG uptime, as I'm currently at like 97%. While I see the value in that, I'm just not sure its worth the loss of hit, especially when I don't have the 4 piece from the next tier yet when NG gets so much better.

[Drayarr]

I was just playing around with WrathCalcs for my Moonkin, Getting a rather weird result, swapping Inc for FoN = +500 DPS o.0
Should I start using FoN instead of Inc?
Armory in Sig for anyone wanting to look at gear.

[Deleted]

Hey guys,

I'd like to ask three quick questions:

- If I am not in a Eclipse and I have a CD for Starsurge ready, should I wait until I get into Eclipse or cast it right away?

- How to AoE? It wasn't mentioned in the original post, so I am kinda lost. I am not 90 yet, but during those few dungeons I ran already, I found Mushrooms kinda weak. Is dotting up everything with both DoTs a way to go?

- Same scenario as the first question, If I am few casts away from an Eclipse and my DoTs fall off, should I refresh them before an Eclipse or wait for an Eclipse? Or should I maybe refresh just Moonfire when I am about to enter Solar eclipse and vice versa?

[mikoslav]

Hey guys,

I'd like to ask three quick questions:

- If I am not in a Eclipse and I have a CD for Starsurge ready, should I wait until I get into Eclipse or cast it right away?

- How to AoE? It wasn't mentioned in the original post, so I am kinda lost. I am not 90 yet, but during those few dungeons I ran already, I found Mushrooms kinda weak. Is dotting up everything with both DoTs a way to go?

- Same scenario as the first question, If I am few casts away from an Eclipse and my DoTs fall off, should I refresh them before an Eclipse or wait for an Eclipse? Or should I maybe refresh just Moonfire when I am about to enter Solar eclipse and vice versa?

1) - cast it right away, you ll get into eclipse faster, which is important.
2) multi dotting instead of aoe is better, generally: 2-3 targets you should multi dot with both sunfire and moonfire (but you can also choose only eclipsed dot, depends if you also have a target that will live longer for your single target casting, SS procs mainly), 4-5 targets multidot only with an eclipsed dot, more than 5 targets you can use hurricane/astral storm as a proper AoE.
3) if you re far from eclipse you can refresh to get a chance for SS proc, if you re close to eclipse (1 cast from it) dont refresh, even the uneclipsed dot will be better to cast after you get a Nature's Grace.

[Deleted]

I have a question about multi-dotting situations. I haven't been doing as well as I should be on the bosses with multiple targets and I am trying to figure out why.

On bosses like Horridon, Council of Elders and Tortos where you'll have at least 4 targets up, you should always be casting SS on cooldown, even during Solar Eclipse because you move through Eclipses so fast anyway, right?

Now what I am wondering is:

Should I apply the Eclipsed DoT to all of the targets first and then apply the Uneclipsed DoT only if the Eclipsed DoT is up on everything?

Or should I apply both DoTs to each target straight away(because otherwise there's time lost changing targets twice as often)?

[mikoslav]

I have a question about multi-dotting situations. I haven't been doing as well as I should be on the bosses with multiple targets and I am trying to figure out why.

On bosses like Horridon, Council of Elders and Tortos where you'll have at least 4 targets up, you should always be casting SS on cooldown, even during Solar Eclipse because you move through Eclipses so fast anyway, right?

Now what I am wondering is:

Should I apply the Eclipsed DoT to all of the targets first and then apply the Uneclipsed DoT only if the Eclipsed DoT is up on everything?

Or should I apply both DoTs to each target straight away(because otherwise there's time lost changing targets twice as often)?

only eclipsed dot, uneclipsed is much less dmg.
uneclipsed dots you should apply ONLY after you dotted your targets with eclipsed one, and you dont have SS procs+you have to be moving.
If you can stand in 1 spot and hardcast wrath or starfire (after dotting with eclipsed dots), do it.

[Aleksej89]

Has this guide been updated for 5.2?

[Zareth]

Has this guide been updated for 5.2?

Not really a lot to upgrade in terms of the information that is on the original post; it's all accurate. The specific value of crit/haste/mas relative to int might've changed a little, but the secondary stat preference hasn't. The only thing that is worth pointing out is that HotW will now be valued over NV on basically every fight.

[Stommped]

only eclipsed dot, uneclipsed is much less dmg.
uneclipsed dots you should apply ONLY after you dotted your targets with eclipsed one, and you dont have SS procs+you have to be moving.
If you can stand in 1 spot and hardcast wrath or starfire (after dotting with eclipsed dots), do it.

This isn't accurate. Uneclipsed dot > nuke.

[Deleted]

This isn't accurate. Uneclipsed dot > nuke.

Thanks to both of you for the answers. That's what I thought given SS might proc while we are hardcasting the eclipsed nuke.

If you're currently outside of Eclipse, I guess the best strategy is to apply any DoTs that aren't up while waiting for SS procs to move you to Eclipse?

[Stommped]

Correct. When you have that many things dotted, try to stand as close as possible to melee and use SS's immediately, so as to not waste procs.

[mikoslav]

This isn't accurate. Uneclipsed dot > nuke.

I disagree.

---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 12:38 PM ----------

Thanks to both of you for the answers. That's what I thought given SS might proc while we are hardcasting the eclipsed nuke.

If you're currently outside of Eclipse, I guess the best strategy is to apply any DoTs that aren't up while waiting for SS procs to move you to Eclipse?

When I get SS proc while I am hardcasting I interrupt casting and cast SS.
I interrupt it with half step forward with both mouse buttons.

[Caterpillar]

2) multi dotting instead of aoe is better, generally: 2-3 targets you should multi dot with both sunfire and moonfire (but you can also choose only eclipsed dot, depends if you also have a target that will live longer for your single target casting, SS procs mainly), 4-5 targets multidot only with an eclipsed dot, more than 5 targets you can use hurricane/astral storm as a proper AoE.

Are shrooms no longer worh the 4 GCDs during the fight?

[mikoslav]

Are shrooms no longer worh the 4 GCDs during the fight?

if there is lots of adds (more than 7-8 I d say) and you have to be running, and you re in the solar eclipse, and you re sure you can hit all of the mentioned adds with your shrooms, then yes, you could use shrooms.
Other than that, only worthy to plant them before the pull.

[huth]

I disagree.

This is a math matter. Whether you agree is irrelevant.

[mikoslav]

This is a math matter. Whether you agree is irrelevant.

show me that math.

[Lilija]

show me that math.

DPET with NG
Taken from my WrathCalcs (not eclipsed/eclipsed):

Wrath: 51020 75517
Starfire: 61297 90729
Starsurge: 107746 159482
Moonfire (no extension): 144237 213493

[mikoslav]

DPET with NG
Taken from my WrathCalcs (not eclipsed/eclipsed):

Wrath: 51020 75517
Starfire: 61297 90729
Starsurge: 107746 159482
Moonfire (no extension): 144237 213493

thank you, I dont think that proves anything though.

the original statement that I disagreed with was "Uneclipsed dot > nuke.", and while uneclipsed dot does more dmg than say uneclipsed wrath, it still is not more beneficial than this wrath. Especially when in the new eclipse you re going to overwrite this dot with an eclipsed one.

To be clear - by disagreeing - I did not mean to oppose the statement that "uneclipsed dot does more dmg than single wrath or starfire cast", I just think it s less beneficial to be casting this dot, in the described situation.

uneclipsed dot does more dmg than uneclipsed wrath or starfire, but it does not move the eclipse bar.

I assumed this symbol "Uneclipsed dot > nuke." menat "better", not - "doing more dmg", which probably caused this little issue.

Anyway, the math needed to prove that in the described situation it is better to cast uneclipsed dot than to hardcast wrath or starfire should be much more sophisticated, so let me wait for that .

[Lilija]

thank you, I dont think that proves anything though.

the original statement that I disagreed with was "Uneclipsed dot > nuke.", and while uneclipsed dot does more dmg than say uneclipsed wrath, it still is not more beneficial than this wrath. Especially when in the new eclipse you re going to overwrite this dot with an eclipsed one.

To be clear - by disagreeing - I did not mean to oppose the statement that "uneclipsed dot does more dmg than single wrath or starfire cast", I just think it s less beneficial to be casting this dot, in the described situation.

uneclipsed dot does more dmg than uneclipsed wrath or starfire, but it does not move the eclipse bar.

I assumed this symbol "Uneclipsed dot > nuke." menat "better", not - "doing more dmg", which probably caused this little issue.

Anyway, the math needed to prove that in the described situation it is better to cast uneclipsed dot than to hardcast wrath or starfire should be much more sophisticated, so let me wait for that .

Uneclipsed DoT still makes a chance to proc SS higher. Both eclipsed and uneclipsed Wrath and Starfire are much less dmg than instant SS and DoTs. Also, in a multidot situation you do not overwrite already existing DoTs. I do agree than eclipsed DoTs should go first, however, this is a perfect situation when you have always every target in range. During many fights some targets like to move a lot which starts occassional range or being behind your back issues. Also, something I personally couldn't resolve so far is that my nameplate addon (tidy plates) doesn't always display DoTs on all targets especially those further from you. So basicly, with many targets (like Horridon) trying to keep any dotting order is much more hassle than it's worth. In my experience I had much better multidot results when I just dotted stuff with both dots regardless of eclipse, buffs and pressed SS each time it procced rather than trying to follow a perfect DoT rotation.

As for hardcasting it should happen ONLY when you already have both your dots up on all targets and no SS proc. Basicly, due to lowest DPET Wrath and Starfire are lowest priority during multidot. Situation is different in singletarget when casting DoTs just before Eclipse would mean you would have to overwrite them or skip eclipsed DoT which in both cases in a dps loss.

P.S. If you want more sophisticated math analize WrathCalcs engine :P Why do you want to do something that already has been done?

[huth]

I assumed this symbol "Uneclipsed dot > nuke." menat "better", not - "doing more dmg", which probably caused this little issue.

Given the topic, "better" <=> "doing more damage".

Also, i repeat, your agreement is of no consequence here.