[Moonkin] Guide :: 5.4 Edition

[Lilija]

I refresh my CA'd dots at the end of CA, and they not only last to the end of the next Eclipse, but generally most of the way back to the one after that.

During hero and/or some good SS procs, when reaching 0 eclipse energy during Incarnation, DoTs may have 2-3secs left. Even more if you use CDs mid fight and might refresh Incarnation DoTs few seconds later due to previous still having some significant time left.

Also, one more thing I wonder if the dps gain from casting uneclipsed DoT first is really worth it. I mean, when I previously casted eclipsed DoT first I could fully benefit from the crits extending DoT time therefor both DoTs will be closer in time left when I enter next eclipse. Casting non eclipsed DoT first causes me to quite often overwrite a DoT from previous eclipse by its none eclipse version several seconds before it ends because the other DoT already dropped off.

[Deleted]

Sooo, i got a question for all you theorycrafters. My raid leader approached med the other day, because he thought that my gemming was abit off. He told me that he has been simming me in my current gear, and gotten the conclusion that int is almost 2x as good as haste, which again was better than crit. Based on that he went like: WTF nubcake, why u gemming like shizz? And i told him, how the general consus was about boomkins and stat priorities. Then he went: They dont have your gear etc etc.
Stats wise, i've been gemming and reforging to reach the 5273 haste cap and after that i've been gemming for extra crit.
On armory under "Amirub" EU you can see the gem changes he suggested .
I've never in any of these posts encountered anyone advocating for gemming pure int, so i hope you guys can help me

[Lilija]

If nothing has changed from the last time I checked (the start MoP) simcraft is very wrong for moonkins.

[huth]

Looks like it. Which would mean we're a bit short on simming tools right now.

[Stommped]

Sooo, i got a question for all you theorycrafters. My raid leader approached med the other day, because he thought that my gemming was abit off. He told me that he has been simming me in my current gear, and gotten the conclusion that int is almost 2x as good as haste, which again was better than crit. Based on that he went like: WTF nubcake, why u gemming like shizz? And i told him, how the general consus was about boomkins and stat priorities. Then he went: They dont have your gear etc etc.
Stats wise, i've been gemming and reforging to reach the 5273 haste cap and after that i've been gemming for extra crit.
On armory under "Amirub" EU you can see the gem changes he suggested .
I've never in any of these posts encountered anyone advocating for gemming pure int, so i hope you guys can help me

Going for the bp then going for Crit is probably what you should be doing, although gear affects everyone's stat weights differently so it's best to check WC for yourself. As far as Int being 2x better then either Haste or Crit, again it depends on your gear. Stat weights are ever fluctuating and with the change to gems this expansion it's very important to constantly be aware of what yours are. For me Int is nearly exactly 2x better than Crit, so it really makes no different if I gem a Brilliant in a red socket or a Potent. I imagine you are somewhat in the same boat and the difference between gemming for Int or secondary stats is minuscule either way.

[CaseyTheRetard]

If nothing has changed from the last time I checked (the start MoP) simcraft is very wrong for moonkins.

Could you elaborate?

[Lilija]

Could you elaborate?

I did much more dps on a dummy than Simcraft has shown.

[Deleted]

Is the Revitalizing Primal Diamond Meta gem not better to use? (432 spirit + 3% increased critical effect?)

[Chamass]

Hey,

This might sound like a retarded question...

Right now, i always start 1 cast of solar eclipse on a fight, the logic being that i can then explode preplaced mushrooms on pull (since more often then not, i end up going with the misdirect symbiosis and burst agro is a bit of an issue still, being MUCH more geared then my tanks)

I see in the guide that you advice for 1 cast pre-lunar though.
What is the substantial difference? is it just a straight up DPS difference? If so, how much difference? I am not raiding until tuesday, so i dont really have a way to test this right now myself. just curious

[Pascal]

Hey,

This might sound like a retarded question...

Right now, i always start 1 cast of solar eclipse on a fight, the logic being that i can then explode preplaced mushrooms on pull (since more often then not, i end up going with the misdirect symbiosis and burst agro is a bit of an issue still, being MUCH more geared then my tanks)

I see in the guide that you advice for 1 cast pre-lunar though.
What is the substantial difference? is it just a straight up DPS difference? If so, how much difference? I am not raiding until tuesday, so i dont really have a way to test this right now myself. just curious

From what I understand, you want to be able to pop your cooldowns at the beginning of the fight in order to be able to use them as often as possible during the duration of the fight, and the highest DPS strategy for popping those cooldowns is by starting in Lunar. Lunar is the 'single target' eclipse and (as I understand) just does more damage than solar eclipse does. If you start before solar and pop your cooldowns in solar, you lose out of DPS, but if you wait until you reach lunar to pop cooldowns you might miss the opportunity to use it an additional time before the fight is over due to waiting.

I see how you go with mushrooms and misdirect, but honestly I don't see it being a huge disadvantage for your tanks' aggro or your aggro or your raid if you just started with lunar. It's possible that you won't be able to wait until CA to pop mushrooms for the damage boost if the boss gets moved before CA, and it's definitely not as much damage to pop mushrooms outside of solar damage boost, but I'm not even seeing mushrooms as such an important part of the rotation that you should sacrifice the immediate nuke burst of starting in lunar JUST to boost the damage of shrooms.

[Deleted]

Hey,

This might sound like a retarded question...

Right now, i always start 1 cast of solar eclipse on a fight, the logic being that i can then explode preplaced mushrooms on pull (since more often then not, i end up going with the misdirect symbiosis and burst agro is a bit of an issue still, being MUCH more geared then my tanks)

I see in the guide that you advice for 1 cast pre-lunar though.
What is the substantial difference? is it just a straight up DPS difference? If so, how much difference? I am not raiding until tuesday, so i dont really have a way to test this right now myself. just curious

By being 1 cast of lunar eclipse, you pop starfall right before you start precasting a wrath,(then pop incarnation/nature's vigil) so 6-8 seconds of your starfall gets buffed by lunar eclipse+incarnation+nv, once that starfall ends you can pop another one. Which is ultimatly better then using shrooms.

[Juvencus]

Hey,

This might sound like a retarded question...

Right now, i always start 1 cast of solar eclipse on a fight, the logic being that i can then explode preplaced mushrooms on pull (since more often then not, i end up going with the misdirect symbiosis and burst agro is a bit of an issue still, being MUCH more geared then my tanks)

I see in the guide that you advice for 1 cast pre-lunar though.
What is the substantial difference? is it just a straight up DPS difference? If so, how much difference? I am not raiding until tuesday, so i dont really have a way to test this right now myself. just curious

-

By being 1 cast of lunar eclipse, you pop starfall right before you start precasting a wrath,(then pop incarnation/nature's vigil) so 6-8 seconds of your starfall gets buffed by lunar eclipse+incarnation+nv, once that starfall ends you can pop another one. Which is ultimatly better then using shrooms.

This. You get 1.8 buffed Starfalls, plus you can pop super charged buffed mushrooms in CA which you pop right after Lunar to continue benefiting from the already rolling Inc+NV

[Chamass]

Thanks
That makes perfect sense, not exactly sure why i didn't think of that...

[xrayEU]

So I was wondering, how much of a dmg decrease is it to use inc+NV @100 solar with bloodlust instead @100 Lunar with inc+NV? A lot of times BL is used when I'm in solar should I use my cooldowns or wait until I hit Lunar before I pop all my CDs?
Most of the time when we raid I call for BL and Skull banner when it suits my eclipse so its fine but sometimes it I'm just in wrong eclipse when we hit a certain point on the boss and have to use it anyway.

[Sunfyre]

So I was wondering, how much of a dmg decrease is it to use inc+NV @100 solar with bloodlust instead @100 Lunar with inc+NV? A lot of times BL is used when I'm in solar should I use my cooldowns or wait until I hit Lunar before I pop all my CDs?
Most of the time when we raid I call for BL and Skull banner when it suits my eclipse so its fine but sometimes it I'm just in wrong eclipse when we hit a certain point on the boss and have to use it anyway.

Bloodlust is pretty long, there's no reason you can't get to Lunar, then pop it there.

[Juvencus]

What talents do you guys use on Garalon? I had Inc+NV for my first few tries but then I realised it's a bit of a waste with all the movement ( even though I don't kite ). I tried FoN+HotW, for the rest of our tries, for the passiveness and the short burst for each leg but I'm not sure.

Also Wrathcalcs shows SoF+HoTW as 800-1000 dps more in my gear vs Inc+NV. Anyone else noticed that?

[boomkinhero]

I'd like to point out windsong > jade spirit. If it has already been stated, my apologies as I would rather base that assumption on the fact the OP has JS as primary weapon enchant instead of reading through 24 pages.

Consistently I am getting a combined up time of >50%, highest I've seen was 88%.
lower bound (that is impractical, will always do better than) would be 750 constant mastery, taken as .5 * 1500 proc.
Jade Spirit has an average proc around 22%, for the sake of argument let's calculate it based at 24% (perfect uptime) That would be a constant 396 int.

By your stat numbers:
.54 * 750 = 405dps
1 * 396 = 396

Giving a worst case scenario for windsong and best case scenario for jade spirit, the avg dps output still wins to windsong. Then on the fights where windsong cranks out that 80% combined up time, with the majority of that going to the crit buff, the gain completely blows JS out of the water.

[Juvencus]

I'd like to point out windsong > jade spirit. If it has already been stated, my apologies as I would rather base that assumption on the fact the OP has JS as primary weapon enchant instead of reading through 24 pages.

Consistently I am getting a combined up time of >50%, highest I've seen was 88%.
lower bound (that is impractical, will always do better than) would be 750 constant mastery, taken as .5 * 1500 proc.
Jade Spirit has an average proc around 22%, for the sake of argument let's calculate it based at 24% (perfect uptime) That would be a constant 396 int.

By your stat numbers:
.54 * 750 = 405dps
1 * 396 = 396

Giving a worst case scenario for windsong and best case scenario for jade spirit, the avg dps output still wins to windsong. Then on the fights where windsong cranks out that 80% combined up time, with the majority of that going to the crit buff, the gain completely blows JS out of the water.

As you present it, the difference is so minor than RNG will play a much greater role. Also HCs have huge amounts of movement which would hurt the mastery buff especially of you have just left an eclipse before moving.

Atm I'm enjoying the cheap enchant with similar DPS benefits (although Wrathcalcs has Jade Spirit as 463 theoretical-patchwreck-DPS more for me) :P

[Sunfyre]

What talents do you guys use on Garalon? I had Inc+NV for my first few tries but then I realised it's a bit of a waste with all the movement ( even though I don't kite ). I tried FoN+HotW, for the rest of our tries, for the passiveness and the short burst for each leg but I'm not sure.

Also Wrathcalcs shows SoF+HoTW as 800-1000 dps more in my gear vs Inc+NV. Anyone else noticed that?

WrathCalcs is pretty bad in that. I've learned not to trust it. It's just not modeled well at the true types of encounters we see.

As for Garalon, I've noticed that moving all of the time for legs/etc is a giant troll. We just DoT them up and focus down Garalon, so there's not much movement. The more you move to kill the legs, the less net DPS you do to Garalon -- as long as the legs are dying before new legs come up (so you don't waste mends), you're doing fine. I think NV/Inc is still the way to go.

[boomkinhero]

The wrathcalcs model for windsong is setup to model the described rppm system but in practice it does not work as modeled.

@Juvencus, the difference shown, as I stated was a worst case windsong (which will never occur, always being better than shown) beating out a best case jade spirit (which will never occur, always being worse than shown).. on average windsong is a large bonus vs jade spirit. Also you do realize int gives a lot more than 1 dps right? The numbers are based on stat weight, as in its normalized to one of the stats (in this case, int). Actual DPS is going to be around 3.5 dps per int.