isit worth sacrificing 30% haste tick for int?

[Morggane]

just want to copy/paste that article on shadowpriest.com about haste plateaus so SOME PPLZ might finally get a clue. These facts also apply to warlocks btw before you QQ.

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User named frottyy made an excellent graph of the main point:




TLDR summary: Haste Plateaus are garbage. You scale well with Haste regardless of your exact Haste percentage.


Ever since 4.0, I've heard tons of people repeating the myth that DoT-tick breakpoints create "Haste plateaus". This is such a commonly-stated belief that many players take it as gospel truth. (ie, people asking "what's my haste cap" in /g) However, Haste was our best scaling stat in 3.3.x despite the fact that it never added extra ticks at all. It should be fairly easy to show that Haste plateaus don't exist, but I wanted to prove the point.

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1) Gaining an extra DoT tick does not increase your DoT dps.

This is one of the more counterintuitive functions of Haste:
i) At 9.99% haste, you get 5 ticks of VT over 13.64s. (one tick every 2.73s)
ii) At 10% haste, you get 6 ticks of VT over 16.36s. (one tick every 2.73s)

Even though you've crossed a "breakpoint", your VT still only ticks every 2.73sec. The actual DoT damage-per-second does not change. What changes is that you can cast VT less often and still maintain its uptime.

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2) Gaining an extra DoT tick increases your MF dps, but only a little.

i) At 9.99% haste you spend 1.36s every 13.64s refreshing VT. (~10% of total cast time)
ii) At 10.00% haste you spend 1.36s every 16.36s refreshing VT. (~8.33% of total cast time)

Over the course of 163.64 seconds, you will gain 2 GCDs (3.28s) or one Mindflay.
- Let's say you do 24k damage over the course of one MF (2 ticks for 6k and 1 crit for 12k)
- 24k damage every 163.64sec represents a net gain of 146 DPS.
- That is roughly equivalent to 50 Intellect. (consider how tiny this is at 85)

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3) External buffs will ruin your precisely-calculated Haste breakpoint.

Hurricane Weapon, Dark Intent, Power Infusion, Bloodlust, there are lots of buffs that add Haste and can be very variable.

Even just considering Bloodlust, a 40s buff over a 5min fight is a significant amount of time during which your "haste breakpoint" is irrelevant. And many DPSers put hurricane weapon on their weapon, which makes your Haste value highly variable.

Assuming you spend 20% of the time haste-buffed, your "50 Intellect equivalent" haste breakpoint is really only worth 40 Intellect. It is definitely not worth sacrificing better gear to stay at a specific breakpoint.

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Conclusion

Gearing for a "Haste Plateau" is completely pointless. Please spread the word so that people stop talking about mythological Haste breakpoints.

[DesireKT]

Shockingly in a somewhat roundabout way Morggane proved my point. External haste buffs and other damage modifiers change the value of our personal stats. Just the same as statweights change as you get different sets of gear. It greatly increases the value of static intellect which is what's present on both NF and VPLC.

So maybe if you can assume you get X/Y buff all the time from said people sure your personal BIS is going to be different. But that's not the point. That's a personal evaluation it does NOT change the fact that VPLC and Rune of Zeth are BiS for Warlocks alone. When you add in X/Y factors of course that's going to change the value of trinkets. Likewise take those effect away and it will again change the values of gear.

Again you should not take into account external buff cooldowns because that vastly changes things. So because said #1 DPS warlock is using NF doesn't mean anything when he's being fed tricks and PI.

I personally do fine enough on the ranking board without external single target DPS cooldowns. I rarely get a PI although I used to get them 100% back in ICC now our priest uses it for himself (don't ask /sigh) and aside from asking for tricks back in ICC on a couple of bosses I don't think I've gotten it on any sort of regular basis. Rankings aren't ALL about getting external buffs they help sure but "solo" rankings still have the ability to place rather high.

[Morggane]

No. Taking a hypothetical spell as example: Spell A ticks 5 times in 15 seconds. You get enough haste to get two extra ticks. It then ticks 7 times in 15 seconds, ticking faster corresponding to your haste. It's pretty simple. This does not imply having to refresh it more often?

the duration of a dot is calculated on the fly according to your current haste level. it is not a fixed duration anymore like it was before 4.0

this where you need to update your understanding of how haste works.

the dot duration is now calculated like this: maximum ticks that fit into the maximum duration of a dot without exceeding it by 1 full tick.

take corruption for example:

24% haste = 16.94 second dot with 7 ticks and a 1.20 second GCD (2.42 sec/tick)
25% haste = 19.20 second dot with 8 ticks and a 1.19 second GCD (2.40 sec/tick)

This means that at 24% Corruption gives 61.59 dps, 682 DPCT and at 25% 62.08 DPS & 993 DPCT. In other words, the importance of casting Corruption before another ability (based on DPCT) goes up, but the contribution of that 1% haste to the overall DPS is no different than going from 23% to 24% (61.09 to 61.59 is a 0.5 increase compared to the 0.49 for 24-25%.

so you can see that, in fact, you need to refresh corruption more often at 24% haste since the full dot only lasts 16.94 sec compared to 19.2 sec at 25% haste. that is where you gain "filler" time and this is where these "plateaus" mean something if you reallly want them to mean something. The dot DPS remains the same, but you gain the little extra dps of that filler time you can spend on a couple xtra SB during the fight.

*** then you do 1-2 mistakes and you already lost all that extra dps. Human error ---» plateaus

[Deleted]

Woah, alot of information in this thread lol, from such a "simple" question, brought such amazing info, thankyou all, i currently switched from DMC:V & Hc Bell, (thought bell would be better for the 2.1k spellpower) to Int trink from rag and RoZ, My dps has increased by a few k, thankyou all again

[Prydain]

Not a lock player but wanting to get some info cleared about trinkets because some post are not being specific about the ilvl (H or non-H)
From what I've it looks like the list looks like this (feel free to correct me):
H-VLPC
RoZ
H-NF
N-VLPC
DMC:V
N-NF
more than im not listing

Edit: I also found this Aff trinket analysis http://simulationcraft.org/422/Warlo..._Trinkets.html is it updated? I see H-Heart of Ignacious being #1 while noone has mentioned it so far.

[Deleted]

H-VLPC
N-VLPC
RoZ
DMC:V
H-NF
NF
<---a guess

[DesireKT]

H-VPLC
N-VPLC
RoZ
H-NF ~= DMC:V
N-NF

This is from what I remember and H-NF ~= DMC:V being roughly equal but H-NF still slightly better IIRC.

N-VPLC and RoZ might be swapped but it's really irrelevant because any version of VPLC and Rune of Zeth are the clear winners.

Simcraft only sims the use or proc effects of trinkets for that chart. It's in the thread if you look for it you can find the reasoning.

[Scorp969]

demo: moonwell+hc necromaniac
affli/destro :rune of zeth+capacitator

[Superduperman]

rune + capacitator

H nf is junk

[Napoles]

Would like to point out that losing Intell to reach 30% is indeed a significant dps increase in encounters where you can multi dot.
Current content would probably only be H Rhyo/Beth though.