LFR is dead already.

[Osmeric]

why would i want to reque when there is 0 reward for rekilling bosses.

also what happens if say, i kill a few bosses but the group fall apart or i have to leave.

You answered your own question.

[Redmage]

Again, that's a horrible idea. If there is 8 bosses, you will get 8 pieces of gear per week. Two weeks to get every slot filled with latest epics. How can you not see a flaw in that

its not even about the gear.

I don't need anything from the zandalari instances on my tank, i still run them several times a week (even after im valor capped for the week)

why?

Call-to-arms makes it a good way to make money, get flasks, and other cool stuff.
Crystals from DE'd loot
JP to spend on mats.

If i'm not going to get -any- of these things from LFR i will never do it.

[Deleted]

No im saying if theres no incentive for re-killing bosses or re-running the whole raid then tanks (and to a lesser extent healers) will que less, pug less, and que less often overall.

no tanks queing = no LFR for anyone.

How to fix it:

Make it one loot recieved per boss per week (like has been sugested multiple times in this thread)
Make any loot that everybody passes on auto-DE'd and given to a random person.
Have the call-to-arms for tanks and healers

This still means that everyone will be decked out in full Dragon Soul gear (EZ mode, but still) in a few days. After that no tank will queue so all your solution accomplished was that instead of LFR being dead during the end of the week, it will be dead after 1-2 weeks.

I seriously can't believe people are thinking that letting everyone being guaranteed to get your loot from each boss (even if it takes multiple runs) withing a single lockout (week) is a good idea. Dragon Soul raid would be worn out content 3 weeks after launch of 4.3 and the forums filled with QQ about how boring everything is.

The lockout that you only have one chance at loot from each boss has been fundamental since vanilla and abandoning that principle now, especially now, would be completely retarded. I know LFD set a bad example but extending that to raids is a whole different matter. Blizzard will end up with a burnt out community demaning new content every 6 weeks.

[Belial]

No im saying if theres no incentive for re-killing bosses or re-running the whole raid then tanks (and to a lesser extent healers) will que less, pug less, and que less often overall.

no tanks queing = no LFR for anyone.

How to fix it:

Make it one loot recieved per boss per week (like has been sugested multiple times in this thread)
Make any loot that nobody takes auto-DE'd and given to a random person.
Have the call-to-arms for tanks and healers

Ok. I'm gonna try one last time. Getting 1 peice of loot per boss per week = 8 peices of loot, right? So How many weeks do you reckon you would need to run the new raid before you have all the gear you need and don't want to go there anymore? exactly why this would be the most stupid thing ever as everyone more or less wouldn't join the LFR anymore after 2-3 weeks. Plus it would totally go agains't the way loot is handled in normal and heroic as it being a raid, not a dungeon. Just because it is a thing you can que for now and run multiple times a week doesn't make it a dungeon that you can farm.

The only reason it doesn't have a lockout is because if anything happens, disconnection, you being kicked or whatever reason that you can't finish the instance is so you won't be lock for the rest of the week. This means you can go in and do 2 bosses, leave the raid because for w/e reason and que for another later or another day and still be able to finish it up.

[CrunkJuice5]

Have the call-to-arms for tanks and healers

how to make lfr fail even harder then it potentially sounds.make a call to arms for tanks and healers,cant wait for all the healers in pvp gear and tanks with less hp then i have as a dps that cant hold aggro worth anything and chain pull plus ignore healer mana

i mean,dont get me wrong.call to arms sounded nice for all the impatient kids who play dps who cant wait long periods of time.but in reality,it was fail to begin with

[Ssateneth]

I plan to raid lead some LFR pugs. My loot rules?

(didnt read anything after)

Blizz already said loot rules will be set in stone and the leader, nor anyone else, has absolute power over who gets loot. It'll probably still be Need before Greed, meaning you kill a boss, cloth drops, clothies will have the need button lit up, all other classes will only get greed/DE/pass. Also, once that loot window pops up for that boss, it won't pop up for you again for that week, regardless of what loot drops or if you need/greed/DE/pass.

[paladinofcancer]

What a lot of people here dont seem to understand is that the essence is NOT "what do you feel are the best/fairest loot rules".

The essence is "Why the hell would anyone be willing to tank or heal for wipe/flamefests most of these raids will be, if they can just aswell dps, have a more relaxed time, and have exactly the same chance at exactly the same loot they would if they were tanking/healing, and if there really is no reason to tank or heal and everyone will only queue as DPS, how realistic is it to join a LFR queue and not be waiting for a few hours only to be grouped with a dk who wants to try out if dual-wield tanking really is not viable?".

Simple, same reason I am willing to queue as a tank in LFG... fast queue.

[xskarma]

I might be a minority in this thread, but I like the fact it's need before greed instead of Master loot. There is always going to be trouble about loot, whichever way you divide it, and to me Need before greed is the most honest one, with the least risk for people who act reasonable and trust in their fellow players.

Also as has been pointed out before, getting more than 1 chance at a boss is stupid, people would burn through the content like crazy and have little incentive to return again. It's not like that in normals or HC so why the hell would Blizz do it in this mode? that would legitimize the claim that it's a loot pinata mode. It's not, it's a mode designed for people to pug, not some loot-fest-free-for-all

EDIT: Hmm seems the wave of QQ about the loot rules has sparked Blizz in to deliberation:

Blue respons about maybe changing things about the loot rules

It's in uncertain terms though:

As an update, some of you have expressed concerns about how loot rolls will work with regard to class role in the Raid finder.

I wanted to let you know that we're aware of your concerns on that subject, and we're considering some options to address them. It's unclear at this point whether any of those options will make it into patch 4.3 alongside the Raid Finder though, or whether they're even feasible in the short term.

[PaladinBash]

I'm a tank on every character I play which can tank and I love it. I took a break for a while from WoW and with work starting up I can't raid on an Aussie server (since they raid on EST and I'm in WA). My only option is to play on American servers (and I do for the most part) but even then it means raiding at fairly unusual hours and a lot of the time I want to even pug I can't because it's like 1.00am there or something. The LFR is a great thing for people like me (in theory) who are only too happy to carry mediocre players through easy content to figure it out (I have lots of alts and need practice on them- easy mode Dragon Soul sounds perfect for that). The main issues I have with it though is loot and no CTA.

First off the loot issue. DPS are going to roll on my gear. Healers are going to roll on my gear. Why wouldn't they? What possible reason could they have to not do so? If I am not going to get loot for the spec I like to play I may as well just queue as DPS and take it from someone else. Hell I am pretty sure I can just faceroll my way around and still outdps most of the people there so I won't have people complaining. If there's nothing to stop other people doing it to me then there's no reason for me to not do it to others. If I am not getting something out of tanking then I don't see why I'd bother doing it. Oh sure I love it but if a choice is between doing one of two things I love and one of them gives me something and the other doesn't...which does a sensible person choose?

That brings me to the CTA. When I'm bored for 20 minutes and I'm on WoW I look to see if there's a CTA bag. If there is then a group gets a competent and pleasant tank that can actually hold aggro, pulls stuff properly and doesn't let people dick around and annoy people. If there's not a bag then a group get stuck with a bad DK in PVP gear that can't tank more than 1 mob, goes AFK and lets DPS pull things without laughing at them getting killed (as any real tank should). If there was a big juicy reward that tanks and sometimes healers get for doing LFR I'd do it. Oh sure it'd encourage bad DKs like the one I mentioned to tank and make everyone's life but mine miserable but let me repeat that: everyone's life but mine. DPS casually go around needing on tank gear and say "QQ MORE IT'S ONLY GEAR" then I retort "QQ MORE IT'S ONLY YOUR TIME THAT'S WASTED" when you get stuck with a bad tank because I don't get anything out of raiding as a tank.

[xskarma]

Oh sure it'd encourage bad DKs like the one I mentioned to tank and make everyone's life but mine miserable but let me repeat that: everyone's life but mine. DPS casually go around needing on tank gear and say "QQ MORE IT'S ONLY GEAR" then I retort "QQ MORE IT'S ONLY YOUR TIME THAT'S WASTED" when you get stuck with a bad tank because I don't get anything out of raiding as a tank.

And the fact that you seem to take the illogical step from when I tank people need on my gear so I won't tank --> But you wouldn't mind if the tank you queue with as DPS needs no your dps gear? same thing really.

My guess is that if you actually realised that there is no difference between these 2 cases and that you are stuck with hoping noone needs on your gear that doesn't need it, you are probably the type to go for the shorter queue, so guess you're tanking anyway

Don't take this as a dig at you, just stating that is how you come across with that post.

[Zephyr Storm]

How is that a fail thing? That's how raids have literally always worked. How is it magically a fail thing?

Do you really think Blizzard wants everyone to get all the gear pieces they want in one week? There is a reason why raids have a cooldown

Just like it is in Normal and Heroic. But nooooooo... I demand that I'm able to farm my 8 peices of loot a week from this LFR feature so I can get all excited for next week so I can get more loo.... oh wait!! *snap* No more loot I can use from there, oh well, nice short raid Blizzard, really good going. What the hell am I suposed to do now. I hate you Blizzard.

You two are comparing a regular guild ran and guild oriented raid to a LFR raid. You can't do that. You know why? Let me break it down for you...

In a guild raid, everyone is in there to help each other out and progress through the content together. Loot is usually distributed pretty evenly across the board so that everyone at least gets something. You know the people, they know you, and you're all in it together. If you haven't gotten loot in a long time, more often than not, a fellow member will pass up on loot so that you can have some. Or the higher ups in the guild will decide that you deserve to get something after a loot drought. Even if other people get their toons geared before you, the loot will eventually go to you by default. All in all, you are usually guaranteed some loot, even if the dice never roll in your favor.

In a LFR raid, everyone is in there to look out for themselves and no one else. Everyone will be rolling on everything, even if it is a side grade or very small upgrade. No one is in there to help you gear your toon or to progress through the content. They are there to deck their toons out in epics. Whereas in a guild raid, once your teammates get the loot they need, it will eventually come to you if you haven't been lucky with the dice. In a LFR raid, if you are never lucky with the dice, you will NEVER get any loot. Because chances are, you are going to be running with brand new people every week, all who need upgrades just like you.....every week. EVERY week. You'll be stuck, raiding the same shit over and over, and getting little to no results in return.

Now, I know that I'm talking about some worse case scenarios here, but the fact is, it will happen to people. Even if they do get an upgrade every so often, it will be alot slower and alot more agonizing than it should be.

Now obviously, the thing that I mentioned they should change isn't the perfect solution. If you could do the raid 20 times in the same week, yeah you prolly will get the gear you need, fairly quickly. But they at least need to allow you maybe 3 chances a week per boss to get your gear. Definitely more than 1 chance a week. Blizzard can't make something like the LFR feature and still treat it EXACTLY like a guild raid would be ran. If they follow through with that mindset, the LFR will quickly become an unpopular and unused feature sitting in the game, collecting dust. We'll look back at it in a few months down the road and say,"What the hell was Blizzard thinking when they implemented that piece of shit?"

Edit:

Also, the loot in LFR will be a lower ilvl then regular raids. So for all the raiders out there QQing about random PuGs getting easy loot...guess what? IT'S LOWER ILVL than what you'll be getting. Which means, said PuGs won't be able to perform as well as you still because their gear is STILL INFERIOR.

Seriously people. Some of you are acting like Blizzard is going to hand out heroic raid ilvl loot to the people in LFR. Get off your high horse and let other people enjoy the game, even if it is a casual and easier way of doing it.

[Deleted]

It will fail because :

-Raid setups will be bad (even though it will be strictly balanced, it will be bad)
-There will be lots of issues with assigning people to a specific job (how the hell can you do heroic baleroc with random healers, how the heall can you do heroic majordomo with people who don't know when to pack)
-There will be issues with loot distribution (LOTS OF ISSUES...)
-There will be no real raid leader, but some little hard headed people who will try to take command. Therefore, there will be no way for people to understand and follow a leader.
-People with unoptimized gear, low individual skill will slow others.
-No team spirit whatsoever.
-Some people won't accept authority.
-Some people will go afk anytime they feel necessary.
-Some people will just leave the raid mid-fight because mommy called them for dinner.
-If some people don't get the loot they wanted, they'll just rage and quit.

To foresee even more, I can say this will cause :
-Lots of Game masters reports
-Lots of whine on the forums
-Lots of rage against Blizzard and their poor attempt at doing a thing that is not 100% gameplay-related but more social and communication-related : RAIDS.


Strictly speaking, managing and winning a random raid is harder than killing Heroic Ragnaros 2 weeks before anyone else.

Good day sir.

[namelessone]

One question - if you only raid in WoW for loot - what the hell do you use loot for?
I always though I needed loot to get a shot at raids and actually, you know, play the game.

[Daffyduck]

how to make lfr fail even harder then it potentially sounds.make a call to arms for tanks and healers,cant wait for all the healers in pvp gear and tanks with less hp then i have as a dps that cant hold aggro worth anything and chain pull plus ignore healer mana

i mean,dont get me wrong.call to arms sounded nice for all the impatient kids who play dps who cant wait long periods of time.but in reality,it was fail to begin with

Call to Arms is/was a great idea, no way in the world I would have tanked so many randoms if I didn't have a chance of winning a mount etc.

If your jealous that DPS can't get the satchel, roll a tank so I can DPS.

---------- Post added 2011-10-01 at 07:11 AM ----------

It will fail because :

-Raid setups will be bad (even though it will be strictly balanced, it will be bad)
-There will be lots of issues with assigning people to a specific job (how the hell can you do heroic baleroc with random healers, how the heall can you do heroic majordomo with people who don't know when to pack)
-There will be issues with loot distribution (LOTS OF ISSUES...)
-There will be no real raid leader, but some little hard headed people who will try to take command. Therefore, there will be no way for people to understand and follow a leader.
-People with unoptimized gear, low individual skill will slow others.
-No team spirit whatsoever.
-Some people won't accept authority.
-Some people will go afk anytime they feel necessary.
-Some people will just leave the raid mid-fight because mommy called them for dinner.
-If some people don't get the loot they wanted, they'll just rage and quit.

To foresee even more, I can say this will cause :
-Lots of Game masters reports
-Lots of whine on the forums
-Lots of rage against Blizzard and their poor attempt at doing a thing that is not 100% gameplay-related but more social and communication-related : RAIDS.


Strictly speaking, managing and winning a random raid is harder than killing Heroic Ragnaros 2 weeks before anyone else.

Good day sir.

The content will be so easy that alot of the issues will be irrelevant, there will be alot of bitching and whining though.

Biggest issue will be loot rolls and an entire group made up of people that can't even handle ZA/ZG when the content first come out. Ima do them on the weekend just for the lulz.

[fengosa]

It will fail because :

-Raid setups will be bad (even though it will be strictly balanced, it will be bad) 2/6/17 tanks-heals-dps. Ideal raid comp isn't needed in normals, won't be an issue in LFR
-There will be lots of issues with assigning people to a specific job (how the hell can you do heroic baleroc with random healers, how the heall can you do heroic majordomo with people who don't know when to pack) a lot of mechanics will be relaxed. On nerfed VnT, a twilight meteor won't kill someone at full hp even if they don't stack. Difficulty will be as such...only catastrophes will be punished, not minor issues.
-There will be issues with loot distribution (LOTS OF ISSUES...) The loot rules are Need>Greed. You can roll on any item you can reasonable equip. Fairly simple and straight forward
-There will be no real raid leader, but some little hard headed people who will try to take command. Therefore, there will be no way for people to understand and follow a leader. A raid leader will be appointed, most likely from the largest group queued. They will have raid warning capability and hopefully the common sense to macro proper warnings
-People with unoptimized gear, low individual skill will slow others.[B]can be avoided by forming the majority of the group from your own server[b]
-No team spirit whatsoever.can be avoided by forming the majority of the group from your own server
-Some people won't accept authority.can be avoided by forming the majority of the group from your own server
-Some people will go afk anytime they feel necessary.can be avoided by forming the majority of the group from your own server
-Some people will just leave the raid mid-fight because mommy called them for dinner..can be avoided by forming the majority of the group from your own server
-If some people don't get the loot they wanted, they'll just rage and quit. valor is award from killing the 'last' boss(either 4th or 8th in dragon soul). There is incentive to stay outside of loot.

To foresee even more, I can say this will cause :
-Lots of Game masters reports
-Lots of whine on the forums
-Lots of rage against Blizzard and their poor attempt at doing a thing that is not 100% gameplay-related but more social and communication-related : RAIDS.


Strictly speaking, managing and winning a random raid is harder than killing Heroic Ragnaros 2 weeks before anyone else.

Good day sir.

If you throw 25 completely random people in a group, yes this will be awful. If you use it to gear some alts in your guild along with other people from your server than it will be completely manageable. As an individual you have a lot of power to form the majority of your group, grab people from your guild, friends list, and trade chat with some basic gear checking. I'd be comfortable knowing I could get at least 15 people in a group before I hit the queue button. I'd be happier if I could get a full 25 in group but I don't want to endlessly search for a healer in trade so at some point i'll say 23 ppl in vent is good enough...we'll carry the last 2.

This isn't LFD. You don't just queue up and work with 4 other random people. You will have to put some effort into organizing some of it beforehand, but in the end it will give you raid content that is puggable by the average player. I've been raiding on my resto druid lately and FL pugs have been not existant on my server. I'm very much looking forward to actually raiding on my warrior again, even if it is at a lower difficulty.

[Masternewt]

Typical reasoning by what is today an average wow slob, the traditional whiner with a soaring case of entitlement.

Bad players, who are nownthe majority, demanded easier 5 man heroics. And they got nerfed.
Then they wanted easier raids. Amd they got nerfed.
Then they wanted easier hard modes raids. And they also got nerfed.

Now blizzard introduces idiot mode raiding. Fool proof, faceroll raiding so that every flipper handed derper who already got all of the content tailored to his fail and they can now get full raid tier and see all content by just having a pulse. And what do these players do? Of course, demand MORE! I want a drop for me from every boss! I want to farm bosses endlessly until i have everythng!

Suddenly the baddies who can't play worth a damn because they have a life, have all the time to farm raid bosses 20 hours a day as long as it drops something they can get every time. Ahahahahahaha.... Yes, wow community is horrible. For all i read here i will be joinin lfr with my paladin tank heroic firelands gear and needing on ALL plate. You deserve it.

[allakaboom]

IDK bout dead, but I have a feeling that it will either work out 90% of the time, or fail 90% of the time. And no one can say for sure...

[Thundertom]

It will fail because :

-Raid setups will be bad (even though it will be strictly balanced, it will be bad)
-There will be lots of issues with assigning people to a specific job (how the hell can you do heroic baleroc with random healers, how the heall can you do heroic majordomo with people who don't know when to pack)
-There will be issues with loot distribution (LOTS OF ISSUES...)
-There will be no real raid leader, but some little hard headed people who will try to take command. Therefore, there will be no way for people to understand and follow a leader.
-People with unoptimized gear, low individual skill will slow others.
-No team spirit whatsoever.
-Some people won't accept authority.
-Some people will go afk anytime they feel necessary.
-Some people will just leave the raid mid-fight because mommy called them for dinner.
-If some people don't get the loot they wanted, they'll just rage and quit.

To foresee even more, I can say this will cause :
-Lots of Game masters reports
-Lots of whine on the forums
-Lots of rage against Blizzard and their poor attempt at doing a thing that is not 100% gameplay-related but more social and communication-related : RAIDS.


Strictly speaking, managing and winning a random raid is harder than killing Heroic Ragnaros 2 weeks before anyone else.

Good day sir.

Lol, solid argument you got there buddy.

It is my humble opinion that a lot of the LFD/LFR issues can be solved by 1 thing; Communicate.

This doesn't mean yelling. This means a simple "Hey guys" when you enter, this means a simple "Bleh, I stood in fire, my bad" when you wipe, this means "Sorry guys, I've had enough, good luck!" when you're leaving.

I've been running a lot of LFDs in all classes, and I think only 5 of them failed. I think it has a lot to do with your own attitude, rather then pointing fingers at other people.

[Herecius]

Lots of people getting angry. Take it down a notch. /soothing ocean noises

[Deleted]

The biggest turn off for me is the lack of power given to a leader. I really don't like joining to a group where is no leader and everything is unorganized. I'd gladly join as a raid leader but there is nothing you can really do if people intentionally/unintentionally mess up.