[Megathread] StarCraft 2

[Wass]

Woke up my dormmate, couldn't help but laugh out loud

Anyway I'm heading to bed now. Ben is quickly climbing to be my favorite streamer.

[Deleted]

o/ Yep. Good play, good analysis, entertaining. He needs a new playlist though. good music but i think i've heard Prayer of the Refugee more than i have Gentleman and I've been watching every Proleague stream..

[Deleted]

I agree it's pretty annoying having to carry multiple overseers just in case mines are lying around, Zerg have been just gg'ing at WCS after pushing with an all-in and loosing it to clumps of mines. Make them more expensive or do less splash (like 5 points), it's a bit silly that one will kill a clump of zerglings/drones but SUV's/probes can survive a hit.

Firebat's need to have the biological tag dropped, not only is it retarded by common sense that a car can transform into a lifeform but it will reduce their threat when dropped with a medivac or just dont make them transformers and have them like the campaign, a rax only unit.

Oracle's need a higher cost on pulsar beam, they shouldn't be able to kill a queen 1v1 with ease and then have free reign to destroy a mineral line so early on.

Something need's done to Skytoss overall, although killable they require very specific units and micro, even then you still need the ability to remax.

[-Zait-]

I think firebats and widow mines are fine. My idea for medivac change is to reduce the maximum cargo load of the medivac. The real problem is how much damage can be packed into a 1 or 2 medivac drop, especially when you consider what the cost of the units inside are.

I would disagree, a hellbat shouldn't be able to 1v1 an armored an unit, they're great against armored units, buildings, and decimate light units. Widow mines are very easy to use and are very hard to deal with, I shouldn't have to play Zerg (the race known for EXTREMELY fast units) by slowly throwing ling after ling in an area to suicide mine sweep, or have a bunch of overseers just to deal with 6-7 mines that cost very little cost to the Terran... that's just not right.

The problem about super speed medivacs isn't so much that they can have a bunch of units inside, it's that it's nearly impossible to kill the medivac (especially as Zerg unless you have mutas, and even then they can outrun them) since they can zip right past static defense and units. Making it an upgrade that you purchase (maybe the caduceus reactor) would make it more of a commitment to the Terran, and then since they committed to super heavy drop play, it'd be more balanced.

And yeah like Kakazam said, Oracles, a harassment unit, shouldn't be able to 1v1 a queen. Skytoss is just overpowered beyond belief, I went against a tempest stalker army (near max upgrades for them) with a max 3 3 3 carrier deathball and destroyed them.

Also Demuslim is hilarious.

[Deleted]

It's only scv's that survive btw. Probes get 1 shot as well. I sorta agree with the bio tag with the Hellbats as well, but i do like seeing medivacs incorporated into mech play even if drops aren't being utilized, but it does make my life more of a pain in the ass needing to add something to the ling/bling/ultra combo, or retaining more of my mutas from the mid-game which is already a pain in the ass with widowmines peppering the map with pain.

I don't agree with oracles having a higher cost on pulsar beam, but i do think they need more hp, and do less damage in an effort to give us the opportunity to incorporate them into the midgame or even deathballs. They do more than just global workers, but it's rarely used unless you somehow retain one from a failed oracle harass, which is usually a loss anyway. You can't really incorporate them atm because they just get destroyed if they get sniffed on by armored anti-air. Pretty sure a Thor's splash will kill it in 2 hits, or the anti air might even 1 shot it,, i've never really got one far enough to see how badly they get destroyed because i see them get wasted by a couple turret shots in early game.
To fix skytoss something needs to be done to void rays. Personally i'd remove the "Ok your armored shit dies now" button and put them back to WoL interaction where they charge up. Their damage is just a bit high right now.

All these issues aren't really huge though. Oracles as you say are a bit silly in the early game though definately to the point where not knowing about an oracle until its in your mineral line usually results in a loss as you likely wont have enough units to get rid of it.

[-Zait-]

It's only scv's that survive btw. Probes get 1 shot as well. I sorta agree with the bio tag with the Hellbats as well, but i do like seeing medivacs incorporated into mech play even if drops aren't being utilized, but it does make my life more of a pain in the ass needing to add something to the ling/bling/ultra combo, or retaining more of my mutas from the mid-game which is already a pain in the ass with widowmines peppering the map with pain.

I don't agree with oracles having a higher cost on pulsar beam, but i do think they need more hp, and do less damage in an effort to give us the opportunity to incorporate them into the midgame or even deathballs. They do more than just global workers, but it's rarely used unless you somehow retain one from a failed oracle harass, which is usually a loss anyway. You can't really incorporate them atm because they just get destroyed if they get sniffed on by armored anti-air. Pretty sure a Thor's splash will kill it in 2 hits, or the anti air might even 1 shot it,, i've never really got one far enough to see how badly they get destroyed because i see them get wasted by a couple turret shots in early game.
To fix skytoss something needs to be done to void rays. Personally i'd remove the "Ok your armored shit dies now" button and put them back to WoL interaction where they charge up. Their damage is just a bit high right now.

All these issues aren't really huge though. Oracles as you say are a bit silly in the early game though definately to the point where not knowing about an oracle until its in your mineral line usually results in a loss as you likely wont have enough units to get rid of it.

I agree. Oracles are either the most useless unit in the game, or they win you the game. They need to be more well rounded; like have pulsar beam do less damage first of all, and give them more HP so they can actually be used in the rest of the game. I'd like for them to have an ability that added more defense to other air units, like guardian shield is for gateway armies... I think they actually had an ability like that early in the beta.

[Deleted]

It may have been the MS core, but something gave a a unit, or several units i dont remember which, 200 shields or something. It'll be on liquipedia under beta notes probably.

And wow i just found out that Overseer contaminate on hatchery makes larva spawn go backwards...

Is this widely known and i've been a retard? If not that's fucking huge.

Disregard that i'm drunk as shit it just changes to a progress bar for the contaminate which is the same colour and that goes backwards instead.

Having said that MERLINTHEWIZARD seems to be in a worse condition.

[MerinPally]

Speaking of alcohol, I want tp let you jbow I'km isbsolutely fuckedand I odn't wknow here i am and I have abs at 1pm and I'm int from 10am and I have to go or I fial mydegree . SO fuck you gys or I wi. Yeahjhhh, ring f fire motherufkcersplus clubs... yeahhhhhh,,

[Deleted]

And wow i just found out that Overseer contaminate on hatchery makes larva spawn go backwards...

What do you mean backwards?

I keep forgetting about that ability as well, might start using it more often in ZvZ. Can you clip contaminate so there is no time between one and another?

[Deleted]

What do you mean backwards?

I keep forgetting about that ability as well, might start using it more often in ZvZ. Can you clip contaminate so there is no time between one and another?

Nah it doesn't go backwards i was just being retarded. And i dunno about clipping it but you recast it i imagine, i haven't really tried.

I'm gonna make a new account tomorrow for experimenting with so it doesn't fuck with my ladder and try overseer harass out as a tactic in ZvZ. I personally think it'll work as you're so dependant on Larvae in ZvZ, so stalling injects would be great. The only thing is you'd need to time it to happen while spire is building so there's no anti-air to deal with your overseers. You can't really use it during the ling/bling phase of play because you need a lair, and going a really early lair means you'll probably lose in that phase due to having less lings and banelings, though the difference is minimal, i think it would be enough to cause problems.

It'd need pretty intense micro too, because to make the most of the harass you'd need to hit all bases at once, which should be 3 by the time spire is coming up. The third wont be saturated but it should be spawning. Anyway as i say i'll try it out tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

[Blackdecker]

Looking foward to Life vs Parting in today's GSL match. The only problem in watching Life is that his lings are stronger than everyone else, looks like his lings already start with 3/3.

@About Terrans:

I don't care about the medivac, but they need to change the widow mines. Terrans with Planetary/Tanks/Widow Mines can defend expansions without even looking at it.
Or you can just remove Thor's from the game.

[Wildmoon]

Looking foward to Life vs Parting in today's GSL match. The only problem in watching Life is that his lings are stronger than everyone else, looks like his lings already start with 3/3.

@About Terrans:

I don't care about the medivac, but they need to change the widow mines. Terrans with Planetary/Tanks/Widow Mines can defend expansions without even looking at it.
Or you can just remove Thor's from the game.

Changing only medivacs is enough. Mines are fine. Terran is the race that is supposed to excel at defense. Their static defence and defensive units have to be strongest because their army is the most immobile to move across the map. Zerg is very fast and Protoss could warp in. Why Thors even have anything to do with this? I would be glad if they would remove thor and replace it with some thing more mobile, less expansive but less powerful version of Thor though. Thor is so awkward and clunky. Goliath, I am looking at you.

[Blackdecker]

Changing only medivacs is enough. Mines are fine. Terran is the race that is supposed to excel at defense. Their static defence and defensive units have to be strongest because their army is the most immobile to move across the map. Zerg is very fast and Protoss could warp in. Why Thors even have anything to do with this? I would be glad if they would remove thor and replace it with some thing more mobile, less expansive but less powerful version of Thor though. Thor is so awkward and clunky. Goliath, I am looking at you.

Don't know if the Terrans i play still don't have the multitask to make the drops a pain, because i usually don't have problems with them.
How is MMM immobile ? even you bring back the old medivac they are still pretty mobile.

Thor's was just a joke.

[Whitepepper]

I would disagree, a hellbat shouldn't be able to 1v1 an armored an unit, they're great against armored units, buildings, and decimate light units. Widow mines are very easy to use and are very hard to deal with, I shouldn't have to play Zerg (the race known for EXTREMELY fast units) by slowly throwing ling after ling in an area to suicide mine sweep, or have a bunch of overseers just to deal with 6-7 mines that cost very little cost to the Terran... that's just not right.

The problem about super speed medivacs isn't so much that they can have a bunch of units inside, it's that it's nearly impossible to kill the medivac (especially as Zerg unless you have mutas, and even then they can outrun them) since they can zip right past static defense and units. Making it an upgrade that you purchase (maybe the caduceus reactor) would make it more of a commitment to the Terran, and then since they committed to super heavy drop play, it'd be more balanced.

And yeah like Kakazam said, Oracles, a harassment unit, shouldn't be able to 1v1 a queen. Skytoss is just overpowered beyond belief, I went against a tempest stalker army (near max upgrades for them) with a max 3 3 3 carrier deathball and destroyed them.

Also Demuslim is hilarious.

I disagree with all of this except maybe about Demuslim. As a zerg player I feel mines and hellbats are fine. Is your hellbat complaint that they kill roaches 1v1? Medivac speed is fine and it's fine that they can get away as well. The problem is the damage the medivacs can carry in them. Either the cargo size of the vacs should be smaller, say reduced from 8 to 6, or the unload time per unit should be increased. Those would be my suggestions for fixes. Also you're wrong about mutas and vacs. Medivacs have the same speed as mutas during boost, after boost runs out the mutas can catch them.

As for Oracles, I think they are fine as well. If an oracle can't 1v1 a queen then it becomes absolutely useless as a harassment unit in the zerg matchup. Also, did you just suggest that skytoss is op based on your experience in a protoss mirror match???

Edit: I'm playing around with the unit tester and the only armored unit I've found that a firebat can beat 1v1 is a marauder. Both the roach and the stalker came out on top. This was at equal upgrades.

[Deleted]

Mines are fine imo, just like fungal and storm it forced the opponent to actually care about their units and not just a-move, medivac boost needs to be tweaked somehow, i hope it wont be removed since its very fun to watch, hellbat not so fun to watch still kinda strong

[Wass]

Wow so many complaints during one night, zergs probably just want to go back to how it was in WoL anyway.

@Black did you run into those planetary tank terrans on the ladder? I hope you made broodlords?

A shame really, ever since infestors were nerfed I just don't see broodlords anymore.

[-Zait-]

Wow so many complaints during one night, zergs probably just want to go back to how it was in WoL anyway.

@Black did you run into those planetary tank terrans on the ladder? I hope you made broodlords?

A shame really, ever since infestors were nerfed I just don't see broodlords anymore.

Not so much complaints as a Zerg, but from all three of the races.

[MerinPally]

Holy shit I posted in this thread last night. Also, I feel so ill it's unreal and I have labs and I think I'm gona be throwing up through it...

[Deleted]

Nah it doesn't go backwards i was just being retarded. And i dunno about clipping it but you recast it i imagine, i haven't really tried.

I'm gonna make a new account tomorrow for experimenting with so it doesn't fuck with my ladder and try overseer harass out as a tactic in ZvZ. I personally think it'll work as you're so dependant on Larvae in ZvZ, so stalling injects would be great. The only thing is you'd need to time it to happen while spire is building so there's no anti-air to deal with your overseers. You can't really use it during the ling/bling phase of play because you need a lair, and going a really early lair means you'll probably lose in that phase due to having less lings and banelings, though the difference is minimal, i think it would be enough to cause problems.

It'd need pretty intense micro too, because to make the most of the harass you'd need to hit all bases at once, which should be 3 by the time spire is coming up. The third wont be saturated but it should be spawning. Anyway as i say i'll try it out tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

I tried last night and you can clip them over each other which means you could stop a hatchery producing units for just under 100 seconds with 2 overseer's. That's 2 rounds of units that hatch can't get out with good injects.

[GeordieMagpie]

Today I have truly learned, going with 2/2 marines (stim + combat shield) alone, with around 5-10 ravens, beats Infestors, brood lords, and all that shite.

Macro'ing it was awesome, ..though it was a pain in the ass to split against banelings with infestors around