(Dis)enchanters, need and greed rolls. Solution?

[Catbrain]

There have been many threads about how enchanters get stiffed in dungeons because every one can get hold of enchanting mats. yada yada yada, heard it all before.

Now we know that there is an option to add a bonus to rolls, how about maybe enchanters get a bonus to their disenchant roll on greens/blues in dungeons?
Every still gets a chance of the mats but overall enchanters would get more. The bonus doesnt even have to be that big to make a difference, maybe just add 25 to their roll.

Any thoughts or am i just dragging up a done to death argument?

[Deleted]

Yeah let's give rogues a bonus to lockbox's aswell. Etc etc No.

[Rakudjo]

Yeah let's give rogues a bonus to lockbox's aswell. Etc etc No.

Lockboxes rarely have anything good in them. And if you're going to do that, you might as well give that bonus to BS as well. We can make keys that will open them.

[Exeris]

I would say no and my mage main is an enchanter.

And I never realy got what the problem was either.

[Kurzior]

Seeing as enchanting is the only crafting profession also capable of functioning as a gathering profession, they don't really need this. You can make plenty of gold as an enchanter just doing enchants for people with their own mats (its how every other crafting profession works) and you don't even need to farm chaos orbs (or their equivalent). You also have the option of buying mats, making scrolls and selling for profit.

If you're saying that enchanting should be a gathering profession, i.e. only the disenchant aspect of it but you get all of the mats from any item that no one rolls need on, then maybe you'd also like to have everyone be able to do their own enchants without a profession?

[Haruk]

+25 might be a bit much, but I think +5 would be fair. The point is, if there is no enchanter in your group, nobody gets to roll disenchant, so your only option is greed then vendor. So having an enchanter along benefits everyone in the group besides the enchanter and the enchanter should be entitled to some minor perk as well.

Tailors are not asked to share their cloth bonus when in dungeon groups, all extra cloth on dropped mobs goes to them. If this worked like enchanting, any bonus cloth drops as a result of having a tailor along would go to whomever's turn it was to loot, not necessarily the tailor. I'm sure tailors would screech about that.

[Mammoth]

Enchanting is a crafting profession, they're meant to make money from crafts. If they want to gather they can grind older content for many mats.

Frankly I've gotten to the point where I'm fed up with enchanters feeling entitled to the DE mats by default. Remove the DE option from the enchanting profession and instead make a NPC that will DE loot for everyone and always enable the DE option in all dungeon loot modes. That way everyone can farm dungeons for loot, need rolls that make loot soulbound cannot be DE'd as a method of ninja'ing loot and everyone can DE their green drops. If you can't appreciate the benefits the enchanting profession brings already, they should be taken away.

[chipsky]

No.

What I would support... like the guild bonus... if the enchanter *wins* the disenchanted item, they have a chance to get additional bonus material. Similar to the cloth scavenger bonus.

[Auloria]

I don't feel TOO strongly about it, but it is kind of weird that enchanters are "forced" to disenchant for their party.

However, I don't think a roll bonus is the appropriate answer. If we agree that there is a problem with the system, the disenchant roll should be removed, not buffed for enchanters.

(Since someone brought up the lockbox, how come if there is a rogue in the party, the lockbox isn't automatically unlocked?)

[xskarma]

Any thoughts or am i just dragging up a done to death argument?

I think we've been there and discussed this, this just makes it technically feasible, the reasoning has not changed.

I still don't want it, and my main income is from Enchanting

[Affectionate]

Lockboxes rarely have anything good in them. And if you're going to do that, you might as well give that bonus to BS as well. We can make keys that will open them.

the best thing in a lockbox.... is another lockbox! double gold ftw[

[Joodoc]

Yeah let's give rogues a bonus to lockbox's aswell. Etc etc No.

the differences is the lockboxes drop regardless of if the rogue is in the group or not, enchanting materials are only if an enchanter is in there.

I agree with this completely, and 25 sounds good, that way everybody can still get mats, we just get a higher amount. makes it fair because without us there would be no mats, so we get 25 bonus, however without us there would still be an item that could be gotten, thus it isn't a guaranteed to us.

[Merendel]

Enchanting is a crafting profession, they're meant to make money from crafts. If they want to gather they can grind older content for many mats.

Frankly I've gotten to the point where I'm fed up with enchanters feeling entitled to the DE mats by default. Remove the DE option from the enchanting profession and instead make a NPC that will DE loot for everyone and always enable the DE option in all dungeon loot modes. That way everyone can farm dungeons for loot, need rolls that make loot soulbound cannot be DE'd as a method of ninja'ing loot and everyone can DE their green drops. If you can't appreciate the benefits the enchanting profession brings already, they should be taken away.

While I dont agree with the OP in we enchanters should not get bonus rolls I dont agree with basicly anything else you said. You say your fed up with enchanters feeling they are entitled to DE mats? Frankly many of us are fed up with with folks that feel they are entitled to reap the benifits of our profession for free, no need to even ask. I'm happy to take an even roll with the 4 others for the green, I'm not greedy. Most of the time I'll DE greens for free if someone asks, if they tip great, but if they are rude and demanding I'd like the option to tell them to buzz off. If everybody has to roll greed and find a DE'er later thats fair and fine by me. If the enchanter feels like leting the group have the lazy button to auto DE thats fine by me. You want to mooch off my effort to level a crafting profession without even the curtisy of a please? hell no.

If you want to maintain the statuesque with anybody able to DE then lets go one step further. If your loged in and maxed out blacksmithing (or any other prof) and a guy can just come up to you, click open your craft window and craft an item with their mats and walk off without even a by your leave then well have parity professions.

[Mammoth]

One would assume that someone wishing to roll Greed would also get a +25 bonus, since they do not require the services of the enchanter. So what you really should be saying is that someone who selects DE and is not an enchanter should get a -25 on their roll.

[Jrs418]

I don't feel TOO strongly about it, but it is kind of weird that enchanters are "forced" to disenchant for their party.

yea its not fair , and its not fair they need it to disenchanted and may someone else need it for use ?

so making it Greed/need disenchantable is fair enough to all

[Joodoc]

+25 might be a bit much, but I think +5 would be fair. The point is, if there is no enchanter in your group, nobody gets to roll disenchant, so your only option is greed then vendor. So having an enchanter along benefits everyone in the group besides the enchanter and the enchanter should be entitled to some minor perk as well.

Tailors are not asked to share their cloth bonus when in dungeon groups, all extra cloth on dropped mobs goes to them. If this worked like enchanting, any bonus cloth drops as a result of having a tailor along would go to whomever's turn it was to loot, not necessarily the tailor. I'm sure tailors would screech about that.

+5 isn't enough, because by us being in there, an epic item goes from selling to vendor to 40g tops, to selling on Ah for much more, depending on your servers AH prices. +5 means we only get about 1/20 more mats than non enchanters, whereas +25 is 1/4, still not a lot considering you make easily a 300% to 1000% profit by us jsut being in group. even more so when heroics just start dropping epics that was a 5000% increase for quite some time(increase you don't do math that is about 2kg)

[Deleted]

the best thing in a lockbox.... is another lockbox! double gold ftw[

I've had better, a lockbox in a lockbox in a lockbox.

[Joodoc]

No.

What I would support... like the guild bonus... if the enchanter *wins* the disenchanted item, they have a chance to get additional bonus material. Similar to the cloth scavenger bonus.

I would support one where we get like 25% of what we DE as a bonus, so say it becomes 4 dust, they get the 4 dust, and we get one dust, one in 4 maelstroms is duplicated in our bags, etc. maybe not 25%, but something like that.

also they could disable it so it doesn't work when we win

[Dannz]

no

+5 isn't enough, because by us being in there, an epic item goes from selling to vendor to 40g tops, to selling on Ah for much more, depending on your servers AH prices. +5 means we only get about 1/20 more mats than non enchanters, whereas +25 is 1/4, still not a lot considering you make easily a 300% to 1000% profit by us jsut being in group. even more so when heroics just start dropping epics that was a 5000% increase for quite some time(increase you don't do math that is about 2kg)

dunno about you, but enchanting mats go for nothing on my realm, and have been going for nothing since 4.1 and epics everywhere, maelstrom is worth less than blue shards now, and greater celestial essences (GREEN ITEMS) are worth more than them... so we are not making 300-1000% profit from disenchanting worthless epic items.

tbh, this topic is only brought up by greedy enchanters, that think that the enchanting market is a huge profit... you can make more money in a day by browsing the auction house than the enchanting mats that are acquired from dungeon runs. you are just greedy pricks.

oh, and i do have an enchanter... so it's not a none-enchanter biased opinion, stop being dickheads.

[Joodoc]

yea its not fair , and its not fair they need it to disenchanted and may someone else need it for use ?

so making it Greed/need disenchantable is fair enough to all

we could need it to DE just as much as someone else could need it to sell, that is just a screwed up person, has nothing to do with being an enchanter. he is saying it isn't right that we HAVE to DE stuff for our group yet we get nothing out of doing that

in fact, it hurts us, because it means there are more enchanting mats on the AH, thus the price of em drop, so we can't sell the stuff as high

---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 03:00 PM ----------

no



dunno about you, but enchanting mats go for nothing on my realm, and have been going for nothing since 4.1 and epics everywhere, maelstrom is worth less than blue shards now, and greater celestial essences (GREEN ITEMS) are worth more than them... so we are not making 300-1000% profit from disenchanting worthless epic items.

you realize 300% is only 120g for those epics that sell for 40g, most epics sell for like 10 or 20, thus 300% is only 30-60g. yeah you are making that much, currently maelstroms are 160g on my server, though i know that is high.

---------- Post added 2011-10-07 at 03:02 PM ----------

One would assume that someone wishing to roll Greed would also get a +25 bonus, since they do not require the services of the enchanter. So what you really should be saying is that someone who selects DE and is not an enchanter should get a -25 on their roll.

this I could agree too