(Dis)enchanters, need and greed rolls. Solution?

[Pann]

Might not be going to be changed, but should be changed. I don't agree with you that selling enchants is more profitable than selling mats. Most scrolls on my server go for barely any mark up over mat cost. Not mention how much longer it takes to turn them over compared to mats. With cheap mats available to all, partly due to the DE roll option, everybody generally has one friend, alt, guildy etc. to create enchants for them.

But the optimum way to profit from the enchanting profession is not the point, the point is enchanting is the only profession FORCED to share a benefit with others in a dungeon run. That seems like an injustice, however minor it may seem to you, and injustices should not be allowed to stand.

You might not agree with me that scrolls sell for more than the mats, but all the major gold making blogs and websites and the fact that I make several thousand gold per day from enchanting say that you are wrong. I'm not going to go into the ins and out of making gold from enchanting as there are guides and links in the stickies in this section of the forum. I would however suggest that you download TSM, run a few scans of the AH and you will be surprised at just how profitable enchanting is.

Your second point is ultimately the crux of the argument against of the disenchant roll and the reason behind complaints such as non-crafters should not be able to roll on orbs and even gear should not be available from running hcs. Don't get me wrong you are not the first and nor will you be the last person champion such ideas, but it seems to me that you are not interested by making a profit from your profession but are more concerned that somebody else might profit from it.

[Haruk]

...but it seems to me that you are not interested by making a profit from your profession but are more concerned that somebody else might profit from it.

That's not the case. I wish to profit from enchanting mat sales, and the DE roll depresses mat prices and hence impacts my profit. If this was not the case, I would not care that others could disenchant their roll wins just because my enchanter was in the group with them.

You will perhaps counter argue that lower mat prices are good for me if I switch to selling scrolls for profit. I'm unconvinced. I suspect if mat prices were higher, scroll prices would also be higher. In most cases, supply lowers demand (cost) of raw materials, but the cost of raw materials can usually be passed on when producing a crafted item.

[Shoukyaku]

Or just not be greedy would be the better option.

I don't mind sharing my disenchant ability, why do you?

Because they did not invest the time/money into leveling enchanting. Everyone uses the argument "Well they have rights to the mats because the items were attained by the group." Yes thats true, but they should have a roll on the item itself, NOT the disenchanted result. If i come across a node or something that needs to be skinned while in a group, NO ONE calls for the node items or skinning results to be rolled upon. As well they shouldnt, because it was THEIR work leveling those professions. Why should that be any different? Those aforementioned items were uncovered by the GROUP am i not correct? So why should disenchanted items be any different? If someone wants to roll on the item itself thats fine they are entitled to it, they however are NOT entitled to the disenchanting results. To think so is pompous and arrogant, along with having a supreme self sense of entitlement. You want mats simply level an enchanter. Its that simple.

[ComputerNerd]

Seeing as enchanting is the only crafting profession also capable of functioning as a gathering profession, they don't really need this. You can make plenty of gold as an enchanter just doing enchants for people with their own mats (its how every other crafting profession works) and you don't even need to farm chaos orbs (or their equivalent). You also have the option of buying mats, making scrolls and selling for profit.

If you're saying that enchanting should be a gathering profession, i.e. only the disenchant aspect of it but you get all of the mats from any item that no one rolls need on, then maybe you'd also like to have everyone be able to do their own enchants without a profession?

Thats the very reason why it should never have been changed to the current system in the first place.
Nobody else has to share the results of their profession in such a way.
On a gatherable "node" in a dungeon/raid then the only competition is with others with the same skill, not everyone else.
There are no farmable nodes out in the world for enchanting materials, and with them being fairly uncommon when relying on random drops which are not exactly a feasible source for the lower materials, let alone for the rarer like shards or crystals.
Enchanting has unique difficulties and a unique reliance on group content for its gathering so should not be the the only one with a huge unique additional drawback of being forced to compete with an entire group for the results.

Armor/Gear drops have value at a vendor, so everyone get some benefit even on a greed roll.
Nodes have no value due to being innacessible otherwise so are a bonus, while our source is a necessity.

[Pann]

That's not the case. I wish to profit from enchanting mat sales, and the DE roll depresses mat prices and hence impacts my profit. If this was not the case, I would not care that others could disenchant their roll wins just because my enchanter was in the group with them.

You will perhaps counter argue that lower mat prices are good for me if I switch to selling scrolls for profit. I'm unconvinced. I suspect if mat prices were higher, scroll prices would also be higher. In most cases, supply lowers demand (cost) of raw materials, but the cost of raw materials can usually be passed on when producing a crafted item.

As I have said before the profit from enchanting is in the scrolls and not the mats, by dismissing this you are not maximising the amount of profit from your profession. You are treating enchanting as a gathering profession and not a crafting one, this is the same as a jewel crafter only prospecting ore and not crafting gems from the results.

You are also overstating the impact of the disenchant roll on the price of enchant mats at present the only price the roll sets is that of Maelstrom Crystals. The roll adds convenience when you do not have enough essences or Heavenly Shards (most times it will be cheaper to craft and disenchant to get these mats), but ultimately the price of enchant mats is set by the price of Obsidium and Elementium ore.

You seem like an intelligent person, I urge you to spend some time reading the Consortium Forums and take some time to download and configure TSM, you will be pleasantly surprised at how much additional gold you can make from enchanting.

Because they did not invest the time/money into leveling enchanting. Everyone uses the argument "Well they have rights to the mats because the items were attained by the group." Yes thats true, but they should have a roll on the item itself, NOT the disenchanted result. If i come across a node or something that needs to be skinned while in a group, NO ONE calls for the node items or skinning results to be rolled upon. As well they shouldnt, because it was THEIR work leveling those professions. Why should that be any different? Those aforementioned items were uncovered by the GROUP am i not correct? So why should disenchanted items be any different? If someone wants to roll on the item itself thats fine they are entitled to it, they however are NOT entitled to the disenchanting results. To think so is pompous and arrogant, along with having a supreme self sense of entitlement. You want mats simply level an enchanter. Its that simple.

Wow, what a post! I particularly like the bit about being pompous and arrogant, it's like rain on your wedding day, it's a free ride when you've already paid, it's the good advice that you just didn't take and who would have thought it figures?!?

Prior to the introduction of the disenchant roll, enchanters were already disenchanting unneeded gear and it was rolled for at the end of the run, the disenchant roll just simplified this. So what I can gather from your post your point is if I can't have it no-one else can

[mustacheride]

Remove prospecting, milling, disenchanting

add mat nodes in the world

there
it's fair