Will there be a damage meter?

[tripplebooya]

Why not make everyone happy and code the log so only you know your data.
That way people like me who like damage meters only as a means to test new ideas and gear and to make sure we're pulling our weight are happy without causing the problems.

Dont let an addon read damage stats for others, no linking means no abuse

[Jeina]

If raid bosses are designed so that coordination and resource management are required over massive amounts of damage, this conversation will be moot.

Everyone is discussing this as if Bioware is taking Blizzard's raid boss design, which isn't really known yet. Just relax and wait for the game to come out. Play it to end game, do some raids, then determine if a damage meter is necessary.

[Zachyveng]

If raid bosses are designed so that coordination and resource management are required over massive amounts of damage, this conversation will be moot.

Everyone is discussing this as if Bioware is taking Blizzard's raid boss design, which isn't really known yet. Just relax and wait for the game to come out. Play it to end game, do some raids, then determine if a damage meter is necessary.

Even if the end game isn't focused on doing massive amounts of damage what about if it's having to avoid a gigantic turret shooting missiles or healing the raid/tanks or....You get the picture? Everyone focuses on the damage part of meters when there's so much more that you get from using meters.

[vizzle]

If you don't believe me, go check out the threads yourself. Bring up whether or not they should be allowed and you will get all kinds of responses, ranging from "its cheating!" to "it's lazy to not use buttons 1 - 0" to "I dont want recount to ruin the game" with a little of Gearscore hatred thrown in

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=409475

Although generally the forums are usually the vocal minority, I really hope that Bioware doesn't listen to the knee-jerk reactions going on in the forums.

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I believe the general population is a bunch of mouth breathing swamp dwelling one-celled homophobic xenophobes, so I don't really care about the opinion of "most people".

[inboundpaper]

Probably going to be one shortly after launch. If it's Bioware or third party is up for speculation.

[Roose]

It is so funny how a data analysis tool could lead to such heated discussions.

Should we also stop keeping scores and stats in sports? Why not get rid of anything remotely competitive or that could lead to competition because a few people get offended? No. The problem is not in the tool, but in the user. People that fail because they are distracted by a meter would likely fail regardless and just use that as an excuse. They KNOW what they are supposed to be doing.

Not everyone uses meters to be dicks either. "hey, you would do much better if you used [insert core ability here], because it is your primary damage source." Of course some people just do not want any advice no matter how it is presented to them. Then again, lots of times ppl say thanks because they just did not know and are new. I want to help those players because we were all there at one time.

[Deleted]

and does it matter much?

Yeah, it does to me. As a dps in WoW I don't enjoy myself unless I can see that I'm performing well, otherwise its just a rotation and no one can tell if im doing it well or poorly so why bother.

[Roose]

Yeah, it does to me. As a dps in WoW I don't enjoy myself unless I can see that I'm performing well, otherwise its just a rotation and no one can tell if im doing it well or poorly so why bother.

Just like an athlete cares about getting that 40 time. A tenth of a second is huge to them.

[Argroth]

Why not make everyone happy and code the log so only you know your data.
That way people like me who like damage meters only as a means to test new ideas and gear and to make sure we're pulling our weight are happy without causing the problems.

Dont let an addon read damage stats for others, no linking means no abuse

This would be nice but it's really just a dream. Jerks will mod the game so they can be pretentious and condescending to other people to make themselves feel better eventually.

DPS meter for self improvement = good person
DPS meter for comparing/judging others = bad person

Don't insult people. Infracted.

[Trollsbane]

Stop with the name calling.

[Kyira]

I understand damage meters have there place in MMOs I'm similar to the guy a few posts ago where I used them to gauge my performance against my raid members. I never used them to link in chat to belittle people or flex my epeen, it was just for my personal use.

Do I want damage meters in SWTOR? mmm I'd have to say yes but I do want the boss fights to be more about tactics and excecution then damage done. Meters are a great tool for assessing your abilities and performance I just don't want to see them used as epeen flexing tools like they are now in WoW.

[mystik]

a lot of discussion on this, and I'm firmly against this. I don't want this to become WoW. Peple too distracted by damage meters to pay attention or do the fight properly. People acting like elitist assholes. People linking meters after every fight. No thanks.

[LoLHellcy]

I hope when they enable addons, they prohibit damage meters. It isn't likely, but I can hope.

Why? personally the only 3 addons i used for raiding were my Razor Naga's version of bartender; Recount/Skada (i switched a bit before i quit); and Deadly Boss Mods.

Damage meters are awesome for 1) real time judging my DPS / HPS and 2) for trashing my friends for being nubs.

[Dezerte]

As mentioned, perhaps the best solution for damage meters is if they are only personal, only the player can see his own DPS, nobody else. PUG's will be more friendly & guilds will just share their data and compare.

Also I agree that bosses should be more about tactics & reacting to changes and less about staring at bars & timers.

[Roose]

a lot of discussion on this, and I'm firmly against this. I don't want this to become WoW. Peple too distracted by damage meters to pay attention or do the fight properly. People acting like elitist assholes. People linking meters after every fight. No thanks.

This never happened in my guild runs. Perhaps you need to change who you raid with or lower your expectations of random strangers.

---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 01:33 PM ----------

As mentioned, perhaps the best solution for damage meters is if they are only personal, only the player can see his own DPS, nobody else. PUG's will be more friendly & guilds will just share their data and compare.

Also I agree that bosses should be more about tactics & reacting to changes and less about staring at bars & timers.

Personal meters? Is this the extent that you feel we need to go to in order for the people that you play with to be civil? I do agree that bosses should be based more on mechanics, though.

[mystik]

oh I remember certain ICC guild runs where someone would brag about being first on the meter only to get yelled at for never attacking a bone spike on Marrowgar or other stupid shit.

Deadly Boss Mods is even worse. Everyone got stuck using it and it just dumbed the game down and almost played it for you.

[moff]

I want to see everyones damage, but the chat linking is incredibly stupid, thats very true, I always despised that.
the people who are actually interested in those numbers see them anyway.

and I dont get the whole "people who watch the meters dont pay attention to the bossfight!", well in my 6 years experience of high level raiding I came to the conclusion that whoever is at the top of the damage actually paid very much attention to the fight, because otherwhise he would be dead in most cases and other players would be at the top.

and about people acting like elitist assholes, well I guess we all have known such people, but then again this is an mmo and there are lot of idiots, and they act like idiots with or withhout the damagemeters. its a matter of chossing a good guild without such people.

[Trollsbane]

A car when used incorrectly is dangerous. And when in the hands of people who don't use them correctly, they can be very annoying.
Same goes for:
Bikes
Rollerblades
Skateboards
Musical instruments
The internet
Weapons
Cookies
Alcohol
Telephones
Pain medicine
Water
Chairs

Etc. You get my point. Almost everything in this world can be abused. Almost everything also has a use, and when used correctly, has a function.
I use damage meters and parses to understand far more than who's best and who's not doing things correctly. There is wonderful information to be found in these things. Just because you are in a guild, or PUGing with people that mis-use these tools does not mean they are bad tools. The best advice is to find people similar to you, and run things with them. If you don't want to make friends or put out the effort to find people that share your views, your complaints are kind of mute. In a game that a huge number of people play together, you'll find all walks of life, and your happiness in this game shouldn't be dicated by others. But you also can't blame them for it. It's your choice how you play the game, and who you play with. If you have a problem with something, it's up to you to fix it. No one can do it for you.

Find your game. Take control. Play with people who share beliefs with you. You wouldn't become friends and hang out with people in real life if you hated them or the way they acted and treated people, would you? So why settle for that in a video game that should be used for enjoyment?

[Delia]

Should we also stop keeping scores and stats in sports? Why not get rid of anything remotely competitive or that could lead to competition because a few people get offended? No. The problem is not in the tool, but in the user.

I think comparing to sports is a good analogy, but score is likely the wrong thing to compare, score is really a broad perspective that is the direct decider as to the winner or loser, I'd say score of a sport would be the bosses health in the analogy, not your personal damage done or DPS.

Meters would be more analogous with player statistics, how many completed passes they have, how many points they've scored, the number of assists, total yards ran, all that kind of stuff. Lets say you're the owner of a team, or to make it more realistic, lets say you want to play in a fantasy baseball/basketball/football/hockey league, those stats matter greatly.

Can you play fantasy sports while only picking players based on games their team has won? Probably, but it'll be a lot harder to choose than for the person who has full player stats sheets, and plays by those. If you join a fantasy league and know nothing about the player stats, some of the other people might be asses and laugh at you or brag about how much they know... But the nice people will share what they know and try to help people who don't know any better out... or just leave them to their own thing if they seem to be content doing it that way, and it isn't hurting the game.

One thing that would never happen though, is the rest of the members of the fantasy league going: "Oh the new guy picks without using stats, and he doesn't like that we do, guess we have to throw out all this info we have then."

[Dezerte]

This never happened in my guild runs. Perhaps you need to change who you raid with or lower your expectations of random strangers.

---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 01:33 PM ----------



Personal meters? Is this the extent that you feel we need to go to in order for the people that you play with to be civil? I do agree that bosses should be based more on mechanics, though.

Yes, I think it would create a more cooperative experience when playing with random people. Again, when you're playing with your friends & guild I totally understand the need to share DPS data.