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  1. #1

    Why do you play an MMO for PVP?

    Honest question. I originally only played WoW for PVE and have never understood why people bother with PVP. I decided to finally give PVP an honest shot this season. I PVPed quite a bit this season (enough to get full S9 gear on my alt Rogue and do some arena and get a couple pieces of s10) and I still don't get the attraction. I feel like I gave it an honest effort.

    Now, I played FPS back in the day for my PVP fix now I mostly do RTS for PVPness.

    I just don't understand why you would choose WoW for PVP - here are the reason why:

    1.) Crazy class imbalances
    2.) The obvious fact that skill doesn't matter (if it did a "talented" player could destroy 4 average players - without a pocket healer - no matter what class
    3.) The majority of the WoW PVP community is another level of terrible (no offense, just stating what I see).
    4.) Healers
    5.) Resilience
    6.) Fights take way too long (see #5)
    7.) CC is annoying (I played rogue and annoying the hell outta people with CC was probably the funnest part - did get old fast though)
    8.) Faceroll comps (Warlock/Shaman/X lawl)
    9.) Numbers matter more than skill (see #2)
    10.) FoTM classes.
    11.) The crazy waves of nerfs and buffs

    There is more but this is what comes to mind right now.

    Just want to know what people find so attractive about this kinda PVP. Maybe Im missing something? But I think I think Ill stick to tanking on my DK.
    LOL @ Mathz

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    i played wow for pve. then my guild wiped on h25 LK for 3 days a week for 2 months straight. guild drama, same scripted fights over and over(same fights, every week) crappy loot systems, with even crappier RNG loot drop (OMG i hope that neck drops! it didnt, gota wait another week)

    then i started to pvp. its never the same(not scripted) and doesnt get boring. you earn your loot. you can actually talk trash to others when your better (not the same old "my guild is 6/7 heroic and yours isnt, your fail lololol")

    as for
    8.) Faceroll comps (Warlock/Shaman/X lawl)
    its not faceroll, the reason this is one of the better comps is because of the high skillcap it involves. better players playing a higher skillcapped comp are going to do better than something that is really faceroll, like a melee cleave. all the top comps involve high skillcaps, rmp, rls, mls, shatterplay, shadowplay, all of them.

    those who pvp know i speak the truth.
    Last edited by DiscoGhost; 2011-10-11 at 03:38 PM.
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  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    WoW PvP was better when they didn't care about making it some sort of Wargame. I.E. it was better when it was just World PvP and Battlegrounds.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    its not faceroll, the reason this is one of the better comps is because of the high skillcap it involves. better players playing a higher skillcapped comp are going to do better than something that is really faceroll, like a melee cleave. all the top comps involve high skillcaps, rmp, rls, mls, shatterplay, shadowplay, all of them.
    I don't buy that. I don't think its skill I think its synergy, and the minute one of those classes get nerfed in some way it will change...so whats the point of becoming "skilled" at a comp when blizzard can destroy its synergy at any time.

    Look at R/M/P for instance.

    Synching CC's and interupts is not difficult. As long as you have skype and your partners aren't absolutely incompetent.

    ---------- Post added 2011-10-11 at 03:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    WoW PvP was better when they didn't care about making it some sort of Wargame. I.E. it was better when it was just World PvP and Battlegrounds.
    Yeah, I agree. I did do some old school PVP back in the day and I do remember it was fun.
    LOL @ Mathz

  5. #5
    The problem with old school world pvp is that there was no reason for doing it. The implementation of the arena system was a way to actually measure your skill level to some degree. Anyone who argues that the honour system had anything to do with skill can go shoot themse... I mean go read a book, ehm.

    Also there where shadow priests back then -.-
    Last edited by Mumba; 2011-10-11 at 03:59 PM.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    1.) Crazy class imbalances
    True
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    2.) The obvious fact that skill doesn't matter (if it did a "talented" player could destroy 4 average players - without a pocket healer - no matter what class
    thats not so real, u have to see things in this way comp > gear > skill > luck
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    3.) The majority of the WoW PVP community is another level of terrible (no offense, just stating what I see).
    What do you mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    4.) Healers
    Isnt a real problem, the problem is the imbalance between PvE and PvP (look at CS from warr...this is the way to balance thats for dps, tank and heal)
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    5.) Resilience
    isnt a real problem, if that works in the right way
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    6.) Fights take way too long (see #5)
    Depends alot
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    7.) CC is annoying (I played rogue and annoying the hell outta people with CC was probably the funnest part - did get old fast though)
    Maybe, sometimes is the "skill" part of the game and not just sit on the healer/boss/target and nuke
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    8.) Faceroll comps (Warlock/Shaman/X lawl)
    Yes its real these comps give ratig at ppl that dont deserve it, like S9 tsg
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    9.) Numbers matter more than skill (see #2)
    in some situation, but with good control u can negate alot of dmg
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    10.) FoTM classes.
    this is the way that blizzard uses to make us (somebody) reroll every season
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    11.) The crazy waves of nerfs and buffs
    I would change this sentence with, "take a long time to change something, and when they do it is usually for the worse"

    I like pvp because if i dont want play i can say "okthxcyabb" and go Irl mode, in raid i cant say ok im bored Cya
    I like pvp because i dont fight VS scripted fight
    I like pvp because requires more skill then PvE (imo)
    And sometimes its more funny with friends
    I have other reasons that come to mind, i do not hate PvE, just find it more static
    Last edited by mmoc5ef7cfa017; 2011-10-11 at 04:03 PM.

  7. #7
    I do wish to add that WoW PVP is really flawed with all the RNG flying around (hi retri).

  8. #8
    Because you can generally PvP whenever you want to, instead of having to have set times when you need to be on.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    u have to see things in this way comp > gear > skill > luck
    Yeah, see, it should be skill>comp>gear>luck (atleast for me to give up PVP in another kinda game for WoW PVP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    What do you mean?
    They are usually just pricks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    Isnt a real problem, the problem is the imbalance between PvE and PvP (look at CS from warr...this is the way to balance thats for dps, tank and heal)
    Well, that was another thing I was thinking but didnt add to the list. Why a play a game that balances itself around PVE when you wanna PVP? Id rather play a game that either requires no balancing or is straight PVP that way I know what Im getting into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    Depends alot
    Eh, not really. High resilence, with a healer team, you are in for a bit of drag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    in some situation, but with good control u can negate alot of dmg
    Still think an exceptional player should be able to lay waste to many average players no matter what class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    this is the way that blizzard uses to make us (somebody) reroll every season
    Lawl true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    I would change this sentence with, "take a long time to change something, and when they do it is usually for the worse"
    Well, there you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley View Post
    I like pvp because if i dont want play i can say "okthxcyabb" and go Irl mode, in raid i cant say ok im bored Cy
    I like pvp because i dont fight VS scripted fight
    I like pvp because requires more skill then PvE (imo)
    And sometimes its more funny with friends
    I have other reasons that come to mind, i do not hate PvE, just find it more static
    Thats what raid schedules are for - just have to find one that fits one. The fights are scripted but still require coordination. Eh, I'm not sold on the skill aspect on any part of an MMO - I think its more about storyline, avatar development, and seeing content (thats why I play anyway).

    If you want skill why not play a purely skill based game?
    LOL @ Mathz

  10. #10
    Ok I've read your post, and when I read it, I realised that what you said (about 6 or 7 of those points) is what's pissing me off about pvp, but the sence of domination, the sence of success, and fullfillment when you get gladiator at the end of a season, and you have partners to share your excitement with makes it worth it.
    Yes I agree FPS is alot better for pvp, however unlike WoW pvp it's alot more twitch reactions and reflexes, I'd say it's too fast for me, which would also cause alot more frustration than WoW PvP does for me, Reason I preffer WoW over RTS for pvp is sharing the joy, while RTS is alot better balanced and a true show-off of skill, when you look at it from a different perspective- you have nobody to share your success with if you get into diamond league on SC, you can't be happy with anybody, you're just happy by yourself, and loneliness quickly leads into massive egoism and into ignorance, leading towards my final point WoW pvp is healthier as it's a multiplayer pvp scene, and a much calmer state of PvP (healthier in terms of social development, and healthier in terms of frustration caused)

  11. #11
    LoL owns. Great game.
    LOL @ Mathz

  12. #12
    If there is one issue with pvp currently that's developpers wanting every spec to be viable, competitive in PvE.

    From my point of view, Frost is PvP for mage, it should never ever be changed "in order to be on par with arcane/fire in PvE", which are mostly (for arcane at least) PvE specs. Oh and yeah, basically wanting every class to have +/- the same DPS in PvE is an issue, as it really benefits casters, as CCs are supposed to counter their lack of constant damage.

  13. #13
    Old God endersblade's Avatar
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    I think WoW would be perfectly fine if they'd just freaking SEPARATE all of the abilities for PvP and PvE. Really annoying when something gets stupid broken in Arenas, and blizzard nerfs it so it becomes useless in PvE. Rift had no problem separating the two, I don't see why big ol' WoW can't do it.

  14. #14
    Because it requires more skill than PvE.

    E: I know I'll get flamed and called a troll, but honestly how can anyone say that killing scripted dragons is harder than PvP?
    Hi

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nest View Post
    Because it requires more skill than PvE.

    E: I know I'll get flamed and called a troll, but honestly how can anyone say that killing scripted dragons is harder than PvP?
    Because gearing up, learning the tactics, making sure that the other people have done the same - is a lot harder than going into a bg and hit some loon running in circles.

    On topic, I don't understand why people play WoW to pvp. The pvp in WoW is horrible and terrible, and a shamble compared to the pvp in other mmorpgs that have actually bothered to try to do some decent pvp, like say DaOC. WoW is a pve game, everyone knows so and Blizzard intended it this way.

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  16. #16
    And in my perspective; I personally don't understand why you would play PvE in this game when it's the farthest thing from challenging. But,

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    I just don't understand why you would choose WoW for PVP - here are the reason why:

    1.) Crazy class imbalances
    Not really, unless you expect every class and every spec to be viable which is silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    2.) The obvious fact that skill doesn't matter (if it did a "talented" player could destroy 4 average players - without a pocket healer - no matter what class
    Not at all. You sound like you haven't even touched competitive play, so I'm not sure where your pulling this information from.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    3.) The majority of the WoW PVP community is another level of terrible (no offense, just stating what I see).
    The PvE community is just as bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    4.) Healers
    5.) Resilience
    ?? What do you mean by Healers/Resilience. What's wrong with healers/resilience? Can't just point something out with no explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    6.) Fights take way too long (see #5)
    You would prefer to get global'd? I'm sorry didn't you just make a comment about nothing being skill based, yet you want fights to be shorter...? Doesn't that completely contradict your earlier point?

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    7.) CC is annoying (I played rogue and annoying the hell outta people with CC was probably the funnest part - did get old fast though)
    CC is what provides strategy. Coming from an 'rts' player, I don't know why you would be complaining about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    8.) Faceroll comps (Warlock/Shaman/X lawl)
    It's not faceroll at all, they just work flawlessly together in the hands of skilled players. Again, you haven't played competitively so disregarding that because you're probably just lurking the AJ ladders or other threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    9.) Numbers matter more than skill (see #2)
    What? You just said fights last too long. If there were big numbers then the fights wouldn't be lasting that long would they?

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    10.) FoTM classes.
    About as valid as FoTM comps comment, if you're against good players and you're just playing a recently buffed class, you're still going to get rolled.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    11.) The crazy waves of nerfs and buffs
    Unfortunately PvP doesn't really get crazy waves of nerfs and buffs. Changes are made to the PvE model and then we normally have to deal with the consequences. I would say patch nerfs/buffs screw it up, but people adjust.

    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    Just want to know what people find so attractive about this kinda PVP. Maybe Im missing something? But I think I think Ill stick to tanking on my DK.
    Strategy? Outplaying your opponents? The same thing that everybody finds gratifying about any type of PvP. You've barely touched PvP, from my understanding all you have is one set of S9 vicious and some S10 vicious/ruth? Have you even broken the 2k bracket to where it becomes more and more about proper cooldown management and outplaying your opponents? Rogues are far from a faceroll class, you get out as much as you put in.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdragon View Post
    Ok I've read your post, and when I read it, I realised that what you said (about 6 or 7 of those points) is what's pissing me off about pvp, but the sence of domination, the sence of success, and fullfillment when you get gladiator at the end of a season, and you have partners to share your excitement with makes it worth it.
    Even if you get it with a faceroll comp? Not saying you run a faceroll comp, just saying gladiator doesn't mean much in terms of your abilities because there are so many variables.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdragon View Post
    Yes I agree FPS is alot better for pvp, however unlike WoW pvp it's alot more twitch reactions and reflexes, I'd say it's too fast for me, which would also cause alot more frustration than WoW PvP does for me.
    Ok, thats fair enough. Doesn't really argue the system, just a personal preference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdragon View Post
    Reason I preffer WoW over RTS for pvp is sharing the joy, while RTS is alot better balanced and a true show-off of skill, when you look at it from a different perspective- you have nobody to share your success with if you get into diamond league on SC, you can't be happy with anybody, you're just happy by yourself, and loneliness quickly leads into massive egoism and into ignorance, leading towards my final point WoW pvp is healthier as it's a multiplayer pvp scene, and a much calmer state of PvP (healthier in terms of social development, and healthier in terms of frustration caused)
    There is a large RTS community for pretty much every major RTS game, so the social aspect is there. If I wanted team based PVP I would play an FPS with a team system - have you ever tried that? You may enjoy it.
    LOL @ Mathz

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siberia View Post
    And in my perspective; I personally don't understand why you would play PvE in this game when it's the farthest thing from challenging. But,



    Not really, unless you expect every class and every spec to be viable which is silly.



    Not at all. You sound like you haven't even touched competitive play, so I'm not sure where your pulling this information from.



    The PvE community is just as bad.


    ?? What do you mean by Healers/Resilience. What's wrong with healers/resilience? Can't just point something out with no explanation.


    You would prefer to get global'd? I'm sorry didn't you just make a comment about nothing being skill based, yet you want fights to be shorter...? Doesn't that completely contradict your earlier point?



    CC is what provides strategy. Coming from an 'rts' player, I don't know why you would be complaining about that.



    It's not faceroll at all, they just work flawlessly together in the hands of skilled players. Again, you haven't played competitively so disregarding that because you're probably just lurking the AJ ladders or other threads.


    What? You just said fights last too long. If there were big numbers then the fights wouldn't be lasting that long would they?


    About as valid as FoTM comps comment, if you're against good players and you're just playing a recently buffed class, you're still going to get rolled.


    Unfortunately PvP doesn't really get crazy waves of nerfs and buffs. Changes are made to the PvE model and then we normally have to deal with the consequences. I would say patch nerfs/buffs screw it up, but people adjust.



    Strategy? Outplaying your opponents? The same thing that everybody finds gratifying about any type of PvP. You've barely touched PvP, from my understanding all you have is one set of S9 vicious and some S10 vicious/ruth? Have you even broken the 2k bracket to where it becomes more and more about proper cooldown management and outplaying your opponents? Rogues are far from a faceroll class, you get out as much as you put in.
    Because it's a pve game, every patch, expansion and raid is about the story of the game, where as the pvp is more of a playpen you can run around in now and then. Fact.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  19. #19
    because i want to, because its fun, because that is what multiplayer games are for (most of them) and why not, so why do you play an MMO for PVE?
    Last edited by Ulfric Trumpcloak; 2011-10-11 at 04:35 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by criminalmind View Post
    I don't buy that. I don't think its skill I think its synergy, and the minute one of those classes get nerfed in some way it will change...so whats the point of becoming "skilled" at a comp when blizzard can destroy its synergy at any time.

    Look at R/M/P for instance.

    Synching CC's and interupts is not difficult. As long as you have skype and your partners aren't absolutely incompetent.
    What? RMP has been a top comp since arena release. WLD was also a top comp and there are still tons of people playing that 2200+. You do realize there are people who have gotten gladiator ever season with the same class? If that doesn't speak for itself I don't know what will. Warlocks have always been dominant in the competitive ladders, the only ones that are noticeably in a large participation group going back and forth constantly are druids, shamans and hunters (in my opinion).

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