Dragonflight Class Tuning Incoming - February 28

*Converging Storms increases Stormstrike damage by 10% per stack in PvP Combat was 25%).
*Lava Lash damage increased by 15% in PvP Combat.
*Stormstrike damage increased by 50% in PvP Combat (was increased by 30%).
*Windstrike damage increased by 50% in PvP Combat (was increased by 30%).

Nerfed 90%, up 35%, Blizzard style, relative to Enh shamans. Where is the survivability tuning?

Originally Posted by Vyache

*Converging Storms increases Stormstrike damage by 10% per stack in PvP Combat was 25%).
*Lava Lash damage increased by 15% in PvP Combat.
*Stormstrike damage increased by 50% in PvP Combat (was increased by 30%).
*Windstrike damage increased by 50% in PvP Combat (was increased by 30%).

Nerfed 90%, up 35%, Blizzard style, relative to Enh shamans. Where is the survivability tuning?

your math is weird on that one... nearly disturbing

Lets goooo, buff the prot pallies more, they are totally not the most dominant tank with warrior at the moment and might even say BETTER than them. Lets go blizzard, buff them to the high seas, because Fuck guardian druids amirite? Because death knights and prot pallies were the struggling tanks, and prot pallies are TOTALLY not also going to get even better with the upcoming paladin change, so they desperately needed this damage buff.

Holy shit what did I just read man. Who is balancing this game, what is this?

ever since the removal of double tap MM hunter is only good for killing noobs in BG if they have low gear. they nerf the bow too, now killshot dmg also. my aimed shots crit big on an actually geared target for like 70k. meanwhile warrior priest and warlock are absolutely insane damage self healing and shields...what planet are these devs on?

i seriously hope if anyone at blizz can still read, they see this post because they clearly they dont read the actual wow forums.

i am the only veteran player from my friend group who still tries to enjoy this game. the nerfs to killshot is the last straw for me, its the only move we have left to win games. hunter has no more big button that is satisfying or empowering to press anymore, trushot feels like absolute shit to press compared to avatar, ascendence, dk having 100 pets out, warlock having 10000 pets out, i dont need to go on... now hunter feels like such a struggle to play against anyone decently good. have you even been paying any attention to what other classes are capable of? what a mf joke!!!!! maybe if they werent so busy petting their corgis and adding them all into the game we would have serious pvp balance but after nearly 20 years im sad to say that is just not going to happen. i give up, 4x elite rated pvp it hasnt been good since mop. anyone still playing warrior at this point...im sure you are very good at tying your shoes because its been tuned for idiots.

let me be clear since the DF honeymoon phase has obviously ended - just because the devs are making changes to the game doesnt mean they are good or even meaningful changes. i would argue that we had better more thought-out updates for pvp that werent pushed out to satsify fiends in a content-creating enviornment prior to whoever is calling the shots now.

Originally Posted by Thalrend

Lets goooo, buff the prot pallies more, they are totally not the most dominant tank with warrior at the moment and might even say BETTER than them. Lets go blizzard, buff them to the high seas, because Fuck guardian druids amirite? Because death knights and prot pallies were the struggling tanks, and prot pallies are TOTALLY not also going to get even better with the upcoming paladin change, so they desperately needed this damage buff.

Holy shit what did I just read man. Who is balancing this game, what is this?

Yup. Figures.

I've played paladin since beta. I've been there through thick and thin. I remember healing while wearing cloth items since blizz didnt account for people wanting to heal with a plate class. I remember struggling as prot when it was low-tier, and I remember all the ups and downs throughout the years because of "hybrid tax". I've stuck with it. And now paladins are getting a rework, and getting to be considered very good tanks. But here come the retarded mouth breathers shouting "Durr, pala's getting buffed somehow hurts my class! Down with pala's!"

Why cant people just be happy for other people for once. Me getting my moment in the sun does not hurt you nor your class in any way.
Inb4 mouth breather says "But they take dev time from MY class!". Well, shucks, sucks for you and I do hope you'll get buffed too. Guardian druid needs it. And when the moment comes where blizz overtunes you guys and makes you the best of the meta and I'm still tanking on my paladin, I'll be happy for you and your class as I know, just in my heart, that you got what you wanted and now you're back on the forum whining about something else blizz is getting wrong.

God bless

Originally Posted by talmir

Yup. Figures.

I've played paladin since beta. I've been there through thick and thin. I remember healing while wearing cloth items since blizz didnt account for people wanting to heal with a plate class. I remember struggling as prot when it was low-tier, and I remember all the ups and downs throughout the years because of "hybrid tax". I've stuck with it. And now paladins are getting a rework, and getting to be considered very good tanks. But here come the retarded mouth breathers shouting "Durr, pala's getting buffed somehow hurts my class! Down with pala's!"

Why cant people just be happy for other people for once. Me getting my moment in the sun does not hurt you nor your class in any way.
Inb4 mouth breather says "But they take dev time from MY class!". Well, shucks, sucks for you and I do hope you'll get buffed too. Guardian druid needs it. And when the moment comes where blizz overtunes you guys and makes you the best of the meta and I'm still tanking on my paladin, I'll be happy for you and your class as I know, just in my heart, that you got what you wanted and now you're back on the forum whining about something else blizz is getting wrong.

God bless

With all due respect you playing paladin through thick and thin doesn't change the fact that buffing the most dominant tank in the M plus ladder at the very moment with damage changes, aka the thing affect their m plus viability even more than raids, makes absolutely no sense when they are already same/slightly better than warriors.

And consiering warriors are the S plus tank and paladin is competing them means that you ARE having your time in the sun. And the fact that upcoming paladin rework buffs you, its not even funny how much stronger you guys will be after the rework, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for this buff.

This is absurd, this is the same logic of buffing the prot warriors instead of nerfing them when their first set of nerfs happened. You don't do blanked buffs to second best performing dps spec in the same IF you are not buffing the other specs. Balancing doesn't work that way. Nobody is saying that you need a nerf, but in all reality you will get one after the rework because balance way you will be WAY WAY overtuned, but when there is other classes needs buff, much more urgently so, I simply don't understand why paladins get 2 buffs in a row, when there is a upcoming MASSIVE rework that buffs them even higher anyway.

Not to meantion paladin tanks are the meta tanks at the very moment, and this comes from a guy sitting at 2.950 rio, so meanwhile I am not the best key pusher by any means nessecary, I have a solid idea which spec/tank is good more than the average player i would say. I was even arguing the paladin was THE pug tank comparable with the warriors weeks ago. Constant interrupts are insane in this x pac considering every pack has a deadly cast you cannot miss in high keys.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to buff paladins when the other 4 tanks need is MUCH MUCH MUCH more than you. And in a world where guardian druid exists, or don't exists in this case, what in the fuck is this pacth notes?

Originally Posted by Thalrend

With all due respect you playing paladin through thick and thin doesn't change the fact that buffing the most dominant tank in the M plus ladder at the very moment with damage changes, aka the thing affect their m plus viability even more than raids, makes absolutely no sense when they are already same/slightly better than warriors.

And consiering warriors are the S plus tank and paladin is competing them means that you ARE having your time in the sun. And the fact that upcoming paladin rework buffs you, its not even funny how much stronger you guys will be after the rework, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for this buff.

This is absurd, this is the same logic of buffing the prot warriors instead of nerfing them when their first set of nerfs happened. You don't do blanked buffs to second best performing dps spec in the same IF you are not buffing the other specs. Balancing doesn't work that way. Nobody is saying that you need a nerf, but in all reality you will get one after the rework because balance way you will be WAY WAY overtuned, but when there is other classes needs buff, much more urgently so, I simply don't understand why paladins get 2 buffs in a row, when there is a upcoming MASSIVE rework that buffs them even higher anyway.

Not to meantion paladin tanks are the meta tanks at the very moment, and this comes from a guy sitting at 2.950 rio, so meanwhile I am not the best key pusher by any means nessecary, I have a solid idea which spec/tank is good more than the average player i would say. I was even arguing the paladin was THE pug tank comparable with the warriors weeks ago. Constant interrupts are insane in this x pac considering every pack has a deadly cast you cannot miss in high keys.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to buff paladins when the other 4 tanks need is MUCH MUCH MUCH more than you. And in a world where guardian druid exists, or don't exists in this case, what in the fuck is this pacth notes?

Just roll a paladin. The tank classes mostly play the same anyway. Do aoe dmg to mob = great success you now have threat. Im not even joking. If you want to take m+ or pvp(arena) seriously, you roll the class that gives you the highest chances of success. If you refuse to do that, well it is what it is. Perfect balance will never happen.

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Originally Posted by azuremyst

ever since the removal of double tap MM hunter is only good for killing noobs in BG if they have low gear. they nerf the bow too, now killshot dmg also. my aimed shots crit big on an actually geared target for like 70k. meanwhile warrior priest and warlock are absolutely insane damage self healing and shields...what planet are these devs on?

i seriously hope if anyone at blizz can still read, they see this post because they clearly they dont read the actual wow forums.

i am the only veteran player from my friend group who still tries to enjoy this game. the nerfs to killshot is the last straw for me, its the only move we have left to win games. hunter has no more big button that is satisfying or empowering to press anymore, trushot feels like absolute shit to press compared to avatar, ascendence, dk having 100 pets out, warlock having 10000 pets out, i dont need to go on... now hunter feels like such a struggle to play against anyone decently good. have you even been paying any attention to what other classes are capable of? what a mf joke!!!!! maybe if they werent so busy petting their corgis and adding them all into the game we would have serious pvp balance but after nearly 20 years im sad to say that is just not going to happen. i give up, 4x elite rated pvp it hasnt been good since mop. anyone still playing warrior at this point...im sure you are very good at tying your shoes because its been tuned for idiots.

let me be clear since the DF honeymoon phase has obviously ended - just because the devs are making changes to the game doesnt mean they are good or even meaningful changes. i would argue that we had better more thought-out updates for pvp that werent pushed out to satsify fiends in a content-creating enviornment prior to whoever is calling the shots now.

wow pvp balance has always been a shitshow. The only real way for them to sort it out, would be to split pve & pvp into two totally different talent trees (one for each) and no gear interaction between pve<->pvp.

Then, and only then, would a somewhat balanced pvp occur. They buff & nerf classes often enough just because they stink in one area (lets say pve) only for it to also affect pvp. And wise versa.

The fact that certain classes are OP now has aaaaalways been a thing. As such, someone gotta be at the bottom of the barrel.

Now - one could argue they should focus more on the fun aspects of playing classes & specs and not always balance. When they try doing that, people cry for balance. When they do balance, they often prune classes and make many of them "the same", and people complain about it not being fun.

Really don't like those Elemental changes. Don't get me wrong, they are welcome, but the reliance on Icefury is just not good.

I personally don't like the Icefury playstyle at all. It just overcomplicates the entire spec, as it forces you to track 2-3 additional short time buffs and one cooldown. You already have enough buffs to track, adding Electrified Shocks, the icefury buff itself and Elemental Equilibrium to it is unnecessary, when you potentially have Surge of Power, Power of the Maelstrom and Master of the Elements already. Some are easily encorporated into your priority list, but some require Weakauras to track.
Just look at the WoWhead guide for a normal Icefury talent build. It's a 20 point priority list, with many different IFs and WHENs.
You also have to track your Stormkeeper and Elemental cooldowns, it's not really necessary to add another one to that.
Additionally Icefury changes your entire rotation based on your haste levels.

Icefury is a nice concept, but makes the spec so convoluted without really paying off. I would rather see it reworked or made mutually exclusive with Stormkeeper than have it buffed.

Any Elemental pros might chime in here, I'm speaking as someone who does not main Elemental but is pretty overwhelmed when trying to play the spec properly.

Originally Posted by Thalrend

Lets goooo, buff the prot pallies more, they are totally not the most dominant tank with warrior at the moment and might even say BETTER than them.

Prot pala ST dmg just sucks tho hence the buffs, it does very little for AoE. Prot pala is the first time near meta for M+ in how many years? And not even defined meta, just actually good atm.

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Originally Posted by Thalrend

With all due respect you playing paladin through thick and thin doesn't change the fact that buffing the most dominant tank in the M plus ladder at the very moment with damage changes, aka the thing affect their m plus viability even more than raids, makes absolutely no sense when they are already same/slightly better than warriors.

It's a ST dmg buff, and yes, other tanks need some love, doesn't mean paladin was not lacking at ST significantly. Ask for other tanks to be buffed instead of crying about fixed which were needed.

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Originally Posted by Thalrend

You don't do blanked buffs to second best performing dps spec in the same IF you are not buffing the other specs.

This is very specific targeted buff... bro you don't even know what blanket buff means. You probably don't even know what is buffed, just see a big number and "omg muh tank" - you must be playing warrior.

Originally Posted by erifwodahs

Prot pala ST dmg just sucks tho hence the buffs, it does very little for AoE. Prot pala is the first time near meta for M+ in how many years? And not even defined meta, just actually good atm.

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It's a ST dmg buff, and yes, other tanks need some love, doesn't mean paladin was not lacking at ST significantly. Ask for other tanks to be buffed instead of crying about fixed which were needed.

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This is very specific targeted buff... bro you don't even know what blanket buff means. You probably don't even know what is buffed, just see a big number and "omg muh tank" - you must be playing warrior.

Okay since reading is not your best suit, I will be more in-depth so you cannot drag the conversation to random places.

First of all, how long a spec being not top level has nothing to with how Overpowered/over tuned it needs to be when it becomes meta. Balancing doesn't work that way. You don't get to be stronger than S+ tier all of a sudden because you were a c tier for 2 expansions, because with the same logic, then you need to be D tier for a expansion to "pay" for your S+ tier.

Paladin's tank damage being on the low side was the counter balance for its insane kit. Paladin has the most important tool at the very moment when it comes to big massive pulls, interrupts. It doesn't matter how tanky you are, if your group interrupts cannot cover the pulls you are going to do, you cannot do the said pulls in high keys. Prot paladins enables some pulls that your group cannot do via other tanks, that is their main strenght.

On the same hand, when you do bigger pulls your numbers and your groups numbers becomes bigger all of a sudden, hence you do more damage and you make your group do more damage, which covers the lack of single target damage you have on bosses, since shit is dying faster so the time gained from that covers your average single target damage.

If you buff the only weakness a class/spec have when they are ALREADY the number 1 FOTM spec, you only make the other spec obselete in the top level gameplay. This argument wasn't for fucking 15 keys and such, you can do that via any class spec with zero bloody issues. But why on god's green earth you would take any other class when you can pick a paladin at this very moment, considering there will be no weaknesses whatsoever after this set of buffs. There is absolutely no reason to take any tank after paladin after this set of changes, and deffo no reason to even consider taking or playing anything else if you wanna do the cutting edge content apart from paladin after the paladin rework, since all other tanks will be at least a tier below them, including fucking warrior tanks, which is absurd by itself.

When you apply for groups, if one spec is HEADS AND SHOULDERS ahead of the other specs, of fucking course the other specs will get not get picked unless there is a vast rio difference. Imagine playing a guardian druid at this very moment and see the fucking buffs after buffs to paladin when they were solid anyway.

Also the blanket buffs i am talking about, since as I said you are pretty bloody clueless, is the upcoming paladin class rework that will be in the game in 2 weeks or so, which pretty much buffs all aspects of the paladins. Just one talent, sanctified plates, gives you %20 armor, %10 stamina and %10 avoidiance for 1 point. FOR ONE POINT. They are also moving divine toll which something you always take your class spec, and just that opens a lot of options in your new prot tree, which overall a massive buff to ALL ASPECTS of prot paladin.

In which universe, do you think, when a class is already meta and arguably the strongest tank, that they get a damage buff, which eliminates their only glaring "weakness" before an upcoming massive rework that buff them even more.

This is meme level balancing. I feel good for retribution paladins, but prot paladin doesn't need buffs at this very moment and if you simply look behind your "MUH PALADIN" googles you can see it.

And since you assumed what i mained when i typed in my reply what I played, I have a 2950 rio guardian, a 2900 rio paladin tank and a 2800 rio warrior tank. My 2900 rio paladin tank has MUCH MUCH MUUUUUUCH easier time on keys than my druid, even though there is a 7 i lvl difference between them.

Originally Posted by Thalrend

Okay since reading is not your best suit, I will be more in-depth so you cannot drag the conversation to random places.

First of all, how long a spec being not top level has nothing to with how Overpowered/over tuned it needs to be when it becomes meta. Balancing doesn't work that way. You don't get to be stronger than S+ tier all of a sudden because you were a c tier for 2 expansions, because with the same logic, then you need to be D tier for a expansion to "pay" for your S+ tier.

Paladin's tank damage being on the low side was the counter balance for its insane kit. Paladin has the most important tool at the very moment when it comes to big massive pulls, interrupts. It doesn't matter how tanky you are, if your group interrupts cannot cover the pulls you are going to do, you cannot do the said pulls in high keys. Prot paladins enables some pulls that your group cannot do via other tanks, that is their main strenght.

On the same hand, when you do bigger pulls your numbers and your groups numbers becomes bigger all of a sudden, hence you do more damage and you make your group do more damage, which covers the lack of single target damage you have on bosses, since shit is dying faster so the time gained from that covers your average single target damage.

If you buff the only weakness a class/spec have when they are ALREADY the number 1 FOTM spec, you only make the other spec obselete in the top level gameplay. This argument wasn't for fucking 15 keys and such, you can do that via any class spec with zero bloody issues. But why on god's green earth you would take any other class when you can pick a paladin at this very moment, considering there will be no weaknesses whatsoever after this set of buffs. There is absolutely no reason to take any tank after paladin after this set of changes, and deffo no reason to even consider taking or playing anything else if you wanna do the cutting edge content apart from paladin after the paladin rework, since all other tanks will be at least a tier below them, including fucking warrior tanks, which is absurd by itself.

When you apply for groups, if one spec is HEADS AND SHOULDERS ahead of the other specs, of fucking course the other specs will get not get picked unless there is a vast rio difference. Imagine playing a guardian druid at this very moment and see the fucking buffs after buffs to paladin when they were solid anyway.

Also the blanket buffs i am talking about, since as I said you are pretty bloody clueless, is the upcoming paladin class rework that will be in the game in 2 weeks or so, which pretty much buffs all aspects of the paladins. Just one talent, sanctified plates, gives you %20 armor, %10 stamina and %10 avoidiance for 1 point. FOR ONE POINT. They are also moving divine toll which something you always take your class spec, and just that opens a lot of options in your new prot tree, which overall a massive buff to ALL ASPECTS of prot paladin.

In which universe, do you think, when a class is already meta and arguably the strongest tank, that they get a damage buff, which eliminates their only glaring "weakness" before an upcoming massive rework that buff them even more.

This is meme level balancing. I feel good for retribution paladins, but prot paladin doesn't need buffs at this very moment and if you simply look behind your "MUH PALADIN" googles you can see it.

And since you assumed what i mained when i typed in my reply what I played, I have a 2950 rio guardian, a 2900 rio paladin tank and a 2800 rio warrior tank. My 2900 rio paladin tank has MUCH MUCH MUUUUUUCH easier time on keys than my druid, even though there is a 7 i lvl difference between them.

My guy. That is a lot of words for whining about what other people get. The problem is not that paladin is buffed and arguably the best choice, or equal to warriors. The problem is that your spec is underpowered. I will be happy for you when you get your buffs/rework since I want every tank class to be equal. I will not, and have never, whined about other people getting their buffs, since that is what literal children do.

edit:

Originally Posted by Thalrend

And since you assumed what i mained when i typed in my reply what I played, I have a 2950 rio guardian, a 2900 rio paladin tank and a 2800 rio warrior tank. My 2900 rio paladin tank has MUCH MUCH MUUUUUUCH easier time on keys than my druid, even though there is a 7 i lvl difference between them.

If this isnt bullshit (which I think it is) then this is probably one of the sadder flexes I've seen on this forum for a while.

Originally Posted by talmir

My guy. That is a lot of words for whining about what other people get. The problem is not that paladin is buffed and arguably the best choice, or equal to warriors. The problem is that your spec is underpowered. I will be happy for you when you get your buffs/rework since I want every tank class to be equal. I will not, and have never, whined about other people getting their buffs, since that is what literal children do.

Dude, i have a paladin. This is a class tuning change, this is a balancing change. When you buff the best or the second best specs why bother to call it a class tuning/ balancing change when it does nothing to help with the balance to start with?

In which universe this make sense to you?

Also its not about the flex, the point i make the statement was even though I have 7 I lvl below the guardian , my paladin has a much easier time in keys. Same goes for warrior. Yet we don't see any buffs to vengance dhs, brew masters, or to guardians? interesting. As if there are only 2 specs at the top and other classes don't exists. Hmm.

Originally Posted by Thalrend

Dude, i have a paladin. This is a class tuning change, this is a balancing change. When you buff the best or the second best specs why bother to call it a class tuning/ balancing change when it does nothing to help with the balance to start with?

In which universe this make sense to you?

Its balancing because they are bringin pally's up to scratch with Warriors. Which should be good news to you as it means the warrior tanking level is the base level they want to aim for. Look at ret pala's. They were undertuned so they are getting a re-work to bring them in line with other dps. I bet druids are gonna get a similar treatment eventually. You'd realize this if you didnt have your head up your 2900 rio ass.

Originally Posted by talmir

Its balancing because they are bringin pally's up to scratch with Warriors. Which should be good news to you as it means the warrior tanking level is the base level they want to aim for. Look at ret pala's. They were undertuned so they are getting a re-work to bring them in line with other dps. I bet druids are gonna get a similar treatment eventually. You'd realize this if you didnt have your head up your 2900 rio ass.

Yeah because they totally don't had 4 months to do the said balancing amirite mate? The reason this whole thing is a joke is because there are zero notes about other tank specs. One might argue the %3 buff to blood dk damage is pathetic also, since its a low effort aura buff as blizzards standard.

There is absolutely no reason to buff the top spec in the game, before a massive rework that buffs them even harder. You are already the number 1 tank mate? You want the S+++ Category for yourself or something? In which world this joke of a balance passes are okay?

Originally Posted by Thalrend

Yeah because they totally don't had 4 months to do the said balancing amirite mate? The reason this whole thing is a joke is because there are zero notes about other tank specs. One might argue the %3 buff to blood dk damage is pathetic also, since its a low effort aura buff as blizzards standard.

There is absolutely no reason to buff the top spec in the game, before a massive rework that buffs them even harder. You are already the number 1 tank mate? You want the S+++ Category for yourself or something? In which world this joke of a balance passes are okay?

So far this expansion warriors have been nr 1 tank, mate. Look at the MDI video's, almost exclusively warriors. It'd be all pala's if we'd have been nr 1 already.
We're gonna get better now, but warriors are still gonna be the meta tank. And yes, it has taken 4 months for them to get to rebalancing retribution. It might take 4 more months until they get to your spec. Or at least I hope they do it sooner than later since I do hope they do bring druid up to spec. Sadly this might not happen though, nobody knows, but I hope it'll happen.

Also, classes are going to be unbalanced throughout this expansion. Its pretty much inevitable unless they cancel all specs and only let us play 1 healer class, 1 tank and 1 dps. Its happened in all expansions so far, and will happen in all expansions from now. Its not a great situation, but its what we've got. So far for my class I've got holy (not a great heler spec, comparatively) retribution (not a great dps spec, currently) and prot (a good tank spec). You're complaining about druid who has three viable specs out of four. Feral and balance are A and S tier, respectively and resto druid is S tier as well. So yeah, your tanking spec kinda sucks right now. Its probably not a permanent situation. "Oh no, druid isnt the best at everything", cry me a fucking river.

Originally Posted by talmir

So far this expansion warriors have been nr 1 tank, mate. Look at the MDI video's, almost exclusively warriors. It'd be all pala's if we'd have been nr 1 already.
We're gonna get better now, but warriors are still gonna be the meta tank. And yes, it has taken 4 months for them to get to rebalancing retribution. It might take 4 more months until they get to your spec. Or at least I hope so since I do hope they do bring druid up to spec. Sadly this might not happen though, nobody knows, but I hope it'll happen.

Also, classes are going to be unbalanced throughout this expansion. Its pretty much inevitable unless they cancel all specs and only let us play 1 healer class, 1 tank and 1 dps. Its happened in all expansions so far, and will happen in all expansions from now. Its not a great situation, but its what we've got. So far for my class I've got holy (not a great heler spec, comparatively) retribution (not a great dps spec, currently) and prot (a good tank spec). You're complaining about druid who has three viable specs out of four. Feral and balance are A and S tier, respectively and resto druid is S tier as well. So yeah, your tanking spec kinda sucks right now. Its probably not a permanent situation. "Oh no, druid isnt the best at everything", cry me a fucking river.

So, in which part of this conversation, does your other specs viability has anything to do with your tank spec? Do you realize your argument only works when a class has 3 dps specs, so if one of them is good you can maybe make the argument of " BUT HURR DURR OTHER SPEC GOOD". Guardian is the tank spec of the druid, who gives a fuck about resto and feral when we are talking about the tank balance here? If guardian was good and resto was bad the resto druid who says resto is dogshit is wrong because they can simply play guardian? What kind of a low iq take is that man?

Yeah you are not the best tank spec mate, thats why the top 5 rio tanks in the world has 3 paladins and 2 warriors in it. Top four has 3 paladins in it, and top 100 has 1 guardian. But since you think this is fine, wanna have a bet? After 10.0.7 top 20 rio tanks in the world will be at least 12 paladins in it, minimum. Will you take that bet since you know, paladins are totally not busted right now and with the rework will also not be super busted even more?

Cmon now? Since this balancing passes are alright and they are buffing not the best tank as you said, which will be so moronic since you know, you don't buff the best performing spec in the game while giving nothing to underperforming specs, that will never happen amirite?

Originally Posted by Thalrend

So, in which part of this conversation, does your other specs viability has anything to do with your tank spec? Do you realize your argument only works when a class has 3 dps specs, so if one of them is good you can maybe make the argument of " BUT HURR DURR OTHER SPEC GOOD". Guardian is the tank spec of the druid, who gives a fuck about resto and feral when we are talking about the tank balance here? If guardian was good and resto was bad the resto druid who says resto is dogshit is wrong because they can simply play guardian? What kind of a low iq take is that man?

Yeah you are not the best tank spec mate, thats why the top 5 rio tanks in the world has 3 paladins and 2 warriors in it. Top four has 3 paladins in it, and top 100 has 1 guardian. But since you think this is fine, wanna have a bet? After 10.0.7 top 20 rio tanks in the world will be at least 12 paladins in it, minimum. Will you take that bet since you know, paladins are totally not busted right now and with the rework will also not be super busted even more?

Cmon now? Since this balancing passes are alright and they are buffing not the best tank as you said, which will be so moronic since you know, you don't buff the best performing spec in the game while giving nothing to underperforming specs, that will never happen amirite?

Hey, we've reached the stage where you put words in my mouth! And as an added bonus you're cherry picking your data! Fun! I never said the situation was fine. I was commenting on the fact you were whining about a spec being buffed as if it was hurting your own. I literally said multiple times that I hope that your spec will be reworked and brought up in line with other tanks. Read my posts, you might notice it.

Lets view the data. Out of the top 100 tanks according to raider IO : 55 warrior tanks, 22 paladins and the final 23 spots are mixed between monks, dk's and the rest. yeah.. Pala's sure are overtaking warriors! Dont use disingenuous arguments to support your case. This will change after 10.0.7, of course, but warriors will still outnumber palas.

And YES, the specs of a class do matter. having three top specs out of four on a class does make it less likely that the fourth is imba as well. Pala didnt even have one until pala tanks got good.

Originally Posted by talmir

Hey, we've reached the stage where you put words in my mouth! And as an added bonus you're cherry picking your data! Fun! I never said the situation was fine. I was commenting on the fact you were whining about a spec being buffed as if it was hurting your own. I literally said multiple times that I hope that your spec will be reworked and brought up in line with other tanks. Read my posts, you might notice it.

Lets view the data. Out of the top 100 tanks according to raider IO : 55 warrior tanks, 22 paladins and the final 23 spots are mixed between monks, dk's and the rest. yeah.. Pala's sure are overtaking warriors! Dont use disingenuous arguments to support your case. This will change after 10.0.7, of course, but warriors will still outnumber palas.

And YES, the specs of a class do matter. having three top specs out of four on a class does make it less likely that the fourth is imba as well. Pala didnt even have one until pala tanks got good.

There are more warriors at the very moment than paladins because paladins were not the meta at start of the expansion, so most people mained and stayed with the warrior, however top players swicthed, hence you see the top 5 having 3 paladin tanks. What i said is, and I will, paladin tanks will consistently rise in top 100, and I can bet anything you want, that after 1.0.7 release, top 20 will have more than 12 paladin tanks.

Why are you not taking this bet, it so very easy to track dude?

And also, what i said and i am behind this statement, you should not buff the meta tank or the meta dps ever. I am happy retribution getting buffs, I will be happy if holy get buffs, I am not happy that prot is getting buffs, when its the FOTM tank and the best performing tank at the right hands at this very moment. From a balancing stand point, it makes no sense.

If guardian druid was getting buffs in first 2 pacthes of legion , i would also say the same things, even though I played one, if they ever buffed them in that timeframe it would be the most idiotic thing they would have done. You don't buff S tier specs. Since any buff you do to solve their issues only makes everything worse balance wise, if a spec has no weakness, there is not reason to take any other spec for anything else.

We are at a raging week and the tank who can soothe raging mobs are the shittiest tank for this week even. Yet prot getting buffs? I wouldn't say a peep if brewmaster or veng Dh was getting buffs, since they need it. Prot paladins DONT NEED buffs. Not with the upcoming rework. It only makes shit even more unbalanced, it only makes the struggling specs to get in groups harder. This applies for every role, you don't buff the S spec. They are already the top dogs, it makes no sense.

"most dominant tanks" doing a lot of heavy lifting here

Originally Posted by Thalrend

There are more warriors at the very moment than paladins because paladins were not the meta at start of the expansion, so most people mained and stayed with the warrior, however top players swicthed, hence you see the top 5 having 3 paladin tanks. What i said is, and I will, paladin tanks will consistently rise in top 100, and I can bet anything you want, that after 1.0.7 release, top 20 will have more than 12 paladin tanks.

Why are you not taking this bet, it so very easy to track dude?

And also, what i said and i am behind this statement, you should not buff the meta tank or the meta dps ever. I am happy retribution getting buffs, I will be happy if holy get buffs, I am not happy that prot is getting buffs, when its the FOTM tank and the best performing tank at the right hands at this very moment. From a balancing stand point, it makes no sense.

If guardian druid was getting buffs in first 2 pacthes of legion , i would also say the same things, even though I played one, if they ever buffed them in that timeframe it would be the most idiotic thing they would have done. You don't buff S tier specs. Since any buff you do to solve their issues only makes everything worse balance wise, if a spec has no weakness, there is not reason to take any other spec for anything else.

We are at a raging week and the tank who can soothe raging mobs are the shittiest tank for this week even. Yet prot getting buffs? I wouldn't say a peep if brewmaster or veng Dh was getting buffs, since they need it. Prot paladins DONT NEED buffs. Not with the upcoming rework. It only makes shit even more unbalanced, it only makes the struggling specs to get in groups harder. This applies for every role, you don't buff the S spec. They are already the top dogs, it makes no sense.

Lol, wtf is with your thing about betting on this. As if me not taking a random bet with some opinionated rando on a game related forum proves anything to you? No, I wont take part in a bet with your weirdo ass.

Top "5" is way small a section to make any kind of statistical sense. You're cherry picking your data and you are assuming the reasonings behind people playing warriors, or pally's for that matter. You have no clue what happens after .7, neither do I. You are assuming shit because you are emotionally invested in that whatever blizzard are doing is bad. Sure, we dont NEED buffs, but here we are. I'm sure you'll find something else to whine about when guardian druids get buffed. Whatever dude. You are cherry picking data, putting words in my mouth, making assumptions about what hasnt happened yet and use shit like "why are you not taking this bet" as a way to worm yourself to some way to mentally masturbate yourself with some weird tiny victory. I dont much enjoy talking to a brick, and you are a brick. We're done here, and no, you did not "win" this discussion, you weird little internet person.