Firelands Raid Preview, Reckful 3 PvP Video, Blizzard Retrospective Video

<3 Reckful

Originally Posted by Mightlol

Remember that WoW 'comes from' W3 which is a mostly pvp game - unless you haven't done anything on w3 apart from campaigns, but then you can't really say you've played it. We both like one different part of the game, and we don't care much about the other part, but we've both got to accept it, both pvp and pve matter when it comes to class balances / game design.

I totally accept PvP as an important facet of WoW but not one large enough for those focused on it to completely scoff those that don't PvP.

WoW doesn't come from W3. It's comes after W3, in story. WoW continues the story. Also, to claim W3 was "mostly" a pvp game is based on your opinion. The game was never shipped as "Hey! COME PVP! And do some pve on the side". It's a PvE game with the ability of PvP play. A large portion of the community that plays W3 (still) PvPs over the PvE (or at least that's what I assume, I stopped playing W3 a long time ago).

The main focus of the Warcraft series of games (also Diablo and Starcraft) is Blizzard's ability to tell the story; the characters, the environment, the lore. WoW was made for us, the PLAYERs, to interact with the ENVIRONMENT. Once again, WoW is a PvE with the ability for players to PvP. You will rarely see something like this "Introducing patch 5.3 Arena Season 15! Oh and a new raid tier" But you will see "Patch 5.3: The Return of Sargeras! oh and season 15 starts when we release the raid"

Should Blizzard ignore PvP? No way. Should people who don't know the first thing about PvP say that video was boring? No way. Because, it's actually a very good video. Should those that PvP call those that PvE names and act the way they have been in this thread and over at AJ? Nope. Because, once again, this is all over pixels.

PVP E-sport style WOW is dead. Thats just a fact. MLG dropped it cause it wasn't fun to watch. Some find it fun to play... but most do it just because of gear. So.. that they can pown some none as geared players.

I think BLizzard needs to refocus their PVP content. RIft is doing it by making a special PVP tree that you need to have active to be able to pvp. Thats one way of doing it and we will see what Rift players think of it in few months time. I still consider it to be a mistake from BLizzard to spend time redesigning the talent trees and still have both pvp and PVE to balance in each tree. PVE and PVP should not be mixed in WOW. Thats what 90% of the population have agreed on when PVP was put into the game.

MLG was dumb to pick it up in the first place.

Something that is so radical random and not 1:1 balanced can not be competitive to begin with. If I had to describe WOW PvP I'd use "70% luck, 30% skill (was typo before )". Competitive games are games that are balanced 1:1, RTS, FPS and similar games, where everyone is on equal terms and knows exactly what his next "attack" will do damage wise, not wait for the game to decide that he missed, or was dodged and what not, or that he was extremely lucky and got a 60k crit, while there was always a chance that it would only hit for 6k. Having equal gear still means shit, if the underlying basics are still randomly calculated on each spell cast.

When MLG picked WOW as the competitive game everyone knew it's a farce really.

That said, PvP is fun, very fun and you have people that are really really good at it, but in the end it's just way to random, like I wrote above, and random numbers poping up can turn the scenario in favor of someone, who didn't do anything special at all, but the game did it for him.

Originally Posted by DrgnDancer

In a retrospective? I'm shocked. Shocked. Here I thought "retrospective" meant "all about the future."

You obviosly lost the part where BLizzard were talking about the future in the last few mins...

Originally Posted by DrgnDancer

If you ask most of the "gamers" that are playing WoW, they want their classes to be uber-gods who can roflstomp all the other classes, they want more realistic models, no more fantastic models, no more polygons, no less polygons cause my system sucks, no.... Blizzard doesn't ignore the community, but they don't don't let the community design the game either. Just becasue you don't like the changes doesn't mean they aren't good changes, or that they were well thought out and well implemented changes, or anything else. A *lot* of effort went into Catclysm. Do you realize that even in the areas that didn't change at all, they had to remodel almost everything? Most of the world didn't have full 3-d models. They only full modeled the stuff we could see. If you couldn't get there overland, or see it from a flight point trip, the model probably didn't have a top potion at all. That's why you couldn't fly in Azeroth before now. It's also why they were always stingy as Hell with putting in new Old World Flight points. There was a lot of modeling work that went in every time they added one.

THey did not complete remodel anything... go read the inerviews that were taken with BLizzard devs in GDC 11. THey talked about doing 1/3 rd of the game in Cataclysm. And if you fly over places like felwood you will see how your "total remodel" is just bull.

Originally Posted by DrgnDancer

The amount of effort that went into completely redesigning the talent system (whether you like the result or not) and completely remodeling the old world (with a completely new zone design or finishing out exist models) is staggering. It's not the sort of thing you do for a game you're planing to EOL.

I dont find it staggering.. I find it very badly done and will not stand the test of time over the next 5-6 years. They needed to do alot more and do it alot better to actually make the game stick for the future. They didn't. Nothing staggering about that.

Originally Posted by DrgnDancer

WoW has never been Blizzard's only game, but by chance or design, it was the only game they released for few years. There was a ton of behind the scenes effort being put into DIII and SCII during those times, but you didn't see it becasue those games weren't slated for release. Now that they are, or are close to, released, you're seeing the effort that's been going on for years. The "emphasis" hasn't changed, it's just that you're seeing results. Blizz isn't ignoring WoW for their new properties, you just didn't know how much effort was or wasn't being put into those properties all along.

Yes they are ignoring WOW for the new games- their goal is to get subs from WOW to go into their new games. Go watch the last few mins again - somehow you seemed to have missed all of it.

Originally Posted by DrgnDancer

They rebuilt the whole damned world for you and changed the play style of almost every class. Sorry it doesn't meet with your approval, but it's hardly an indication that the game is being ignored. You just personally don't like the changes.

No they did not rebuilt the whole game - they did 1/3rd. They did not change the playstyle of most of the classes - they just created a way for them to balance it very easily. And I never said I didn't like the changes. I said they are doing a very poor job considering the support that the game is getting from the playerbase.

Originally Posted by DrgnDancer

There's not a lack of creativity, there's you being tired of the same game. It's inevitable. You've been playing for 3, 4, 5 years. Short of making the game a completely different game there's probably nothing Blizzard can do to make you happy. Nothing stays fresh forever.

Yes there is a MAJOR lack of creativity in the WOW development team atm. With a "total" rewamp of the old world (like you claim) they should have worked on the future systems that will become major part of every MMO - Heck that ALREADY has become a major part of every MMO. That would include more custimisation of character and look + armor. That would also involve adding more variety to mobs - improving the engine so that everything doesn't look exactly the same from lvl 1 to lvl 85. Thats something that BLizzard should have been working on IF they were REALLY doing a total rewamp of the old world. THey just didn't. They changed few maps. Rest is left but ugly like felwood.

Im very dissapointed in the way BLizzard is now JUST thinking on how they can end WOW gracefully - instead of taking the game forward to move it from 12 mills to 20 mills. The potential is there IF they were intrested. THey are not. They are just going to spend their broadband capacity on another game - trying to get WOW players to play some other of their games. And no - thats not what WOW players should take lightly and quietly.

Boubouille, why the hell would you encourage us to watch a random pvp video, especially at the same time as whole bunch of other (pve) content?

I very much like Reckful and consider rogue one of the most well-designed, balanced and actually fun classes in the game. I also like to watch skillful players in pvp videos as much as the next person, but why on earth would showing a random pvp comp's matches deserve space on MMO's front-page?!

There are so much better events and videos that have occurred recently which show skill and perserverence against the odds. This is including but not limited to Mionelol's solo of Yogg-Saron or even Reckful's Warglaives matches which were at least fun, usual and show off his skill.

If the purpose was to show off the strength of a pvp comp as to somehow indicate is so much better than other comps, well you're WAY off the mark. There are so many incredibly powerful comps, many of which are not even that well known, including top hunter comps and, the usual suspects, semi-faceroll dk comps (which oddly enough hunter comps seem to counter quite hard).

If the purpose was to show off Reckful or increase his exposure and revenues because he is a professional gamer (i.e. earns money based from sponsers) and a friend, then obviously that would seem at best "unhealthy" to most people.

If there was any purpose to encouraging us to watch a random pvp video, at least have the decency to put down a few short words WHY!

Originally Posted by Naraga

Just for all you pve nerds here hating on Reckfull

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/19...-to-reckful-3/

"I knew the majoirity of the WoW community was a bunch of idiots"

Yet beating those same idiots in pvp means something, LOL. Stop forcing people to respect pvp, they dont for many reasons. If you had to aim, could use the envirement, avoid damage and many other things that make real pvp games it would be much more appealing. Hitting tab isnt aiming brah!

Originally Posted by squeeze

Boubouille, why the hell would you encourage us to watch a random pvp video, especially at the same time as whole bunch of other (pve) content?

I very much like Reckful and consider rogue one of the most balanced and actually fun classes in the game. I also like to watch skillful players in pvp videos as much as the next person, but why on earth would showing a random pvp comp's matches deserve space on MMO's front-page?!

There are so much better events and videos that have occurred recently which show skill and perserverence against the odds. This is including but not limited to Mionelol's solo of Yogg-Saron or even Reckful's Warglaives matches which were at least fun, very and show off his skill.

If the purpose was to show off the strength of a pvp comp as to somehow indicate is so much better than other comps, well you're WAY off the mark. There are so many incredibly powerful comps, many of which are not even that well known, including top hunter comps and, the usual suspects, semi-faceroll dk comps (which oddly enough hunter comps seem to counter quite hard).

If the purpose was to show off Reckful or increase his exposure and revenues because he is a professional gamer (i.e. earns money based from sponsers) and a friend, then obviously that would seem at best "unhealthy" to most people.

If there was any purpose to encouraging us to watch a random pvp video, at least have the decency to put down a few short words WHY!

Yup.

Anyhow.




Cool little documentary, even got Tigole in the video. Wish he would of stuck around to continue with dungeon design and whatnot, but I guess he's been helping on "Titan" for some years now. That gives me a bit of hope that it'll at least not be a complete fail.

Originally Posted by F-Minus

"70% luck, 50% skill"

Epic fail or just miswrite - either way I LOL'd.

Originally Posted by SemtexJack

Why encourage us to watch some boring pvp video?

Because this ''boring pvp video'' contains much more skill than any pve video will ever show.

Blizzard now needs to work on a Religion, I'd follow them.

Originally Posted by Duster505

Yes there is a MAJOR lack of creativity in the WOW development team atm.

The problem, if any, is not at Blizzard - it is the community growing "older" (as in - having played the game for longer). This happens with any persistent game world or similar: The longer something exists, the more legacy matters to the community, the less room for "Hey, we got this great new idea that will upset everything you thought you knew". At some point, which WoW is already past, the community becomes an obstacle to implementing creativity.

Originally Posted by Duster505

Im very dissapointed in the way Blizzard is now JUST thinking on how they can end WOW gracefully - instead of taking the game forward to move it from 12 mills to 20 mills. The potential is there IF they were intrested. THey are not.

You are forgetting one important factor: Blizzard is a company. As such, their main objective is making products that makes as much money for the shareholders as possible. There is no way Blizzard folks are telling their Activision (and other) owners: Hey, we're bored of making tons of money through the product we KNOW is working with customers, so we're gonna fold it as fast as we can and spend all our money on a cool new project that no one knows if it is going to be a flop or success.

Things just don't work like that in the coprporate world. I'll tell you how it works:

Blizz devs: "We'd like to invest in this new awesome future project, we can do cool new stuff there that the legacy of WoW is not allowing us to, we're all excited about it here!"
Money guys: "Cool, just make sure WoW remains a cash cow for as long as it can possibly be, and stay on budget for the risky new stuff"
Blizz devs: "Er... we were thinking just shutting down WoW and tell our customers to go to this other new shiny thing instead"
Money guys: "Forget that. We're happy to see you invest in the next cash cow, but as long as there is a subscriber base for WoW, you ARE going to deliver regular expansion packs that generate tons of money for us, and keep an as large subscriber base as humanly possible. Then at some future point, if indeed the Shiny New Thing turns out a success so big we don't need WoW anymore, then we can possibly discuss folding WoW gracefully, but that's going to be at earliest 5-10 years from now"

Wow that pvp video was terrible. Why was it posted again?

Originally Posted by FattyXP

So whats suppose to be so special about Reckful? Its just another rogue being a rogue in arena...

hes apparently suppose to be really good.and not Swifty "i think im good but in reality im terrible" reckful is actually good

Originally Posted by mokoshnek

Wow that pvp video was terrible. Why was it posted again?

I'll just quote Russet from AJ:

Hahaha I just watched the video. Odd for MMO-Champ to post it, he should know that his entire customer base is filled with mouthbreathers who find it exciting that someone can avoid standing in fire while mashing 1 for 10 minutes.

Comments are pure gold man. "What does gouge do? Is it a stun?"

I'd like to see an entertaining video of non-FOTM classes in arenas. Do those exist?

Originally Posted by Mightlol

Remember that WoW 'comes from' W3 which is a mostly pvp game - unless you haven't done anything on w3 apart from campaigns, but then you can't really say you've played it. We both like one different part of the game, and we don't care much about the other part, but we've both got to accept it, both pvp and pve matter when it comes to class balances / game design.

I suggest you watch the retrospective video that was posted in this very thread. There, you will discovery that WoW and Wc3 were kinda developed side by side. Maybe WoW started a bit later, but it doesn't really matter because they spent 5 years on WoW and therefore launched later.
Now, look back to WoW launch. Tell me, how much pvp was there? Oh yeah, just PvP realms. There wasn't honor until patch 1.4 and battlegrounds (AV/WSG only) until patch 1.5.

Of course, nowadays PVP is a big part of WoW, but at the beginning it was just something extra (and a complete super-hardcore grind).

I was rather amazed that Bobo put some pvp content on the front page.

Personally I don't care much for or about arena, but hey - that's a start to making MMO-Champ a bit more inclusive.

I'd love to see some more non-arena pvp movies on the front page imho. Or more movies, period. Or more pvp stuff, even if it's just arena this or that.

So big ups to Bobo for starting it.

Reckful has the highest rated 3v3 team in the world, so when he releases a new video it's a pretty big deal. Kind of like releasing a world first video in many ways. To all the complainers, get off your high horse, really.

Very good video, only part of this new post I bothered to watch/read frankly.

Theres more to this game than pve. If you dont like the pvp video, then forget about it.

i come to this site to see class changes and whatnot to find out how it will affect my class in pvp. its nice, FOR ONCE, to see a pvp video on the front page.


im simply shocked at how much hate there is for this video being put up. he is incredibly skilled, and watching how he sets up his kills is awesome. its extremely obvious that all this hate is coming from people who are literally clueless as to what he is doing.

if you didnt like it, move on, it simply wasnt for you. i dont watch any of the heroic kills, because i know its not for me. but i dont hate on it everytime i see them posted.