Ragnaros US First Kill by vodka, Diablo 3 Beta, Auction House API, Artworks

Originally Posted by Altek Heresy

I will apologize of hand if this comes across as rude. But you are very naive if you think this will have any kind of effect on that. They can’t control the third-party stuff that goes on in their games. I Understand. Solution: Join them and disregard it all together for the time being. And yes, no-one has seen this function in action. But to say that it will not have a direct effect on the actual game is beyond my comprehension. Blizzard put that into the game, so it’s a big part of it. In the end, this is not the end all be all practice. This is just the continuation of things that because people let them, will lead to something even bigger than this. What that will be? Who knows, but we will find out soon enough at this rate.

So you don't think by greatly diminishing, if not eliminating, gold selling websites that Blizzard is lowering the chances of people making phishing sites to steal people's information?

Honestly, if people don't want to take part in the real world currency part of D3, then don't. If you don't like the fact that there's an AH, don't use it. There's ways around these issues that do not involve whining about them. (Not directed at you, just people in general)

Originally Posted by CrosbyForMVP

So you don't think by greatly diminishing, if not eliminating, gold selling websites that Blizzard is lowering the chances of people making phishing sites to steal people's information?

Honestly, if people don't want to take part in the real world currency part of D3, then don't. If you don't like the fact that there's an AH, don't use it. There's ways around these issues that do not involve whining about them. (Not directed at you, just people in general)

Diminish? Maybe, eliminating it? Highly doubtful. What will happen is that the gold-selling/phishing sites will adapt to the new rule set and circumvent the system like it always happens. Just like you or I can sit there and farm for a certain drop, so will they in a more efficient manner. With more people available to manipulate the system that now legitimizes the gold selling/ item selling in game (referring to the gold-selling/phishing industry). But I digress, I won’t tip my hat to Blizzard for implementing a function and dipping into it numerous times for greed’s sake and making out to be the "We do it because we care" statement they offered. And I do understand the argument of “You don’t have to use it if you don’t want too”. Not were my concern lay, but what this will lead to.

Originally Posted by Bantokar

The idea that a persons irl financial situation should be able to give him an ingame advantage is downright retarded and also destructive towards "fairness" and any and all sense of personal achievement in a game.

This is very true. However, this is something that will sail over the heads of most modern gamers. Sadly, in a few years, people will probably regard this opinion as "quaint".

Originally Posted by Dragonwing

It is really sad when people feel the need to stop playing a game they like in order to make a 'statement'.

It's pretty much the only "statement" that a company cares about. Blizzard will listen to QQ on forums for some things, but virtually no amount of QQ would make Blizzard change its mind on something as potentially profitable as this.

Originally Posted by starkey

Well it will end that way, premium service this premium service that, im still waiting for the announcement of $25 for moving BoA's to different realms, nothing surprises me anymore.

They already have that. It's called 25 bucks to character transfer.

Originally Posted by faerjan

I think when presented with a legitimate option, and an illegitimate option, most people will choose the legitimate one. The previous methods of obtaining those items could include giving away logins/passwords to less than reputable people, or going to potentially virused websites. Giving an incentive not to visit these websites definitely will help cut down on hacked accounts, as people won't have to go to potentially dangerous means to acquire items they would have otherwise acquired that way. Since that is a major source of hacked accounts, that number should go down.

I think your comparison of free to play economy is slightly off as well; in almost all cases, you are comparing the parent company for free to play games selling items in an "item shop", whereas Blizzard has taken the stance of never doing so. If they did decide to start selling items, I'd be rather irritated as well; however this is simply players interacting with other players with Blizzard acting as moderator, as they always have. They also have only decided to take a cut of the "action" for those who are using the "real money AH" to some considerable amount; ie. those that are "power sellers" and play the AH. Considering how much additional support it's going to cost to implement this, I'd say it's a pretty fair trade off.

And as has been repeated many times over the last few days, the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy. As Blizzard has changed and reversed their stance many times in the past, there's no telling what their direction will be... and arguing that it will continue down a particular path is speculation at best.

Which is where this will eventually lead to? Whether you think so or not, that is the logical next step in this business model. Once Blizzard sees the money they generate just from transactions that they do not initiate. What is to stop them from adding "vanity/premium items" to the game in order to maximize the monetary gain? Not a thing since the player base is ok with the issue as long as they can get a “piece”. Or maybe I am wrong and this may well revolutionize the gaming industry all together for the better. Who knows, but I do thank MMO champion’s user base for intelligent arguments.

Originally Posted by Altek Heresy

How is this morally wrong? Let’s see you take a model that up to 6-12 months ago only existed in Free to play games and add a full retail value to it and subscription. Knowing full well that this model works in an environment where you do not pay full price first then milk your customer base with items that will have a direct effect on said game. They know this, I hope you realize this as well. They know it goes against the moral standards that are inherited into the current model of free to play. And they went ahead and institute it into their full retail game model to maximize profit. It’s pretty simple. Whether you disagree with moral conduct in this regard or not it’s your personal choice.
But I see it as a cash-grab with disregards to their fateful (often blind) fan base. And please keep in mind that this is just one door of many paths that we will see unfolding in the years to come.

fateful? (or faithful?)

I think you heavily misread into the nature of ethical behavior. Especially in business. A leader of a company is morally obligated to maximize profits. Their chief responsibility is to share holders, not customers. Many business leaders even believe this responsibility is so strong that it is morally acceptable to engage in socially immoral practice so long as you remain responsible to this mandate.

The reality is simple the cost of developing a game like Diablo 3 is astronomical in comparison to say Diablo 2. Furthermore the profit margin that a single retail sale provides in contrast to say WoW Subscriptions is so minuscule that creating a game like Diablo 3 becomes trivial and wasteful from a business point of view. Thus Blizzard was forced to come up with another source of income. (Note: they plan to do the same with Starcraft 2 via the map store)

All that said their solution for this I feel is far more elegant than other company's pay to progress models as they aren't just creating a system where they have a license to print money. Instead, they give the players a venue to choose how they wish to play, whether it will cost them money, make them money, or be monetarily neutral. Furthermore they have created a stream of revenue for themselves that will give them incentive to continually add new content and items to the game as that will lead to more auction house sales and more income for Blizzard. Thus because of this I imagine we will see content updates much like WoW without the monthly subscription.

In all, however, there is nothing morally wrong about their move. From both a business and social viewpoint they are creating a system that will earn them more income that will at the same time be giving the players the freedom to play how they like best. Some players don't want to spend 8 hours/day magic find farming, others do. Both will have incentives to play the way they like and outlets to allow them to thrive in that environment.

Just because other companies have done it differently before Blizzard doesn't make Blizzard corrupt for changing the model. Are Apple and Google also immoral for charging for their mobile devices then charging for the apps as well? If Blizzard had announced the game would be free but they would be selling weapons and armor themselves I would not have played Diablo 3. However, this slightly different approach not only intrigues me but seems like a much better solution.

Also to close, if you compare the longevity of Blizzard games to competitors they are by far the most cost effective form of entertainment there is. Some players have been playing sc1 or D2 for a decade on the original $100 cost for game and expand. Even playing soccer/football outside would have costed more just on the cost of replacing your soccer ball and running shoes several times over the last decade.

most challenging boss? what? it took like 2 weeks.

Originally Posted by asharia

most challenging boss? what? it took like 2 weeks.

Yea, my first thought was Boub missed his /s.

I see it like this, Games never will be the same again at all if this occur. It will become a JOB and no fun for many many people, trying to make alot of money. Blizzard gonna ruin alot of young people with this and probely adults too. When/if this continue, and regards what many say, going to be a succes, and people start earn alot of money, is it then considered as a job where you have to pay tax from? In most country's if you earn more than X money you have to pay tax, if you on social care you would losethat or get redused in payment, and if you just dont mention it to the right places you risk going to jail for cheating state. So how can this be legal? Im pretty sure noone think of the consequences of this, they just YAY i can get rich by doing this. If you win in Lotto/other games you pay some % of your win to the state, and the compagny that have the game running is oblicated to inform the state too. So if you sell for say 1000$ in game is blizzard oblicated to infomt the state too? Or can they just ignore it? I would check all this before doing this, if I where you.

Originally Posted by themortalgod

A leader of a company is morally obligated to maximize profits. Their chief responsibility is to share holders, not customers. Many business leaders even believe this responsibility is so strong that it is morally acceptable to engage in socially immoral practice so long as you remain responsible to this mandate.

I think you meant to say that a company is legally required to maximize profits for shareholders.

The sentence "morally acceptable to engage in socially immoral practice" doesn't technically make sense either.

Originally Posted by moocowfrakmilk

Why are people all of a sudden up in arms over blizzard providing an AH for items and charecters. Its not like this is something being pulled out of thin air. People have been selling these things for d2 for a decade now. This market would have existed regardless of Blizzards involvement.

---------- Post added 2011-08-02 at 01:59 AM ----------



you have a source for that or are you pulling shit out of thin air?

The worst excuse of all "others do it".

Should receive the same "Why do you care about what others do?" It's not because ppl do it, that the company should adopt it in their game. Buying characters too? LOL. Great.

Despite what ppl want to show off, those kind of games doesn't go far. Sorry. Most will just torrent it now, finish and be gone with it. And when this kind of crap reaches WoW (because they slowly get the "experiments that went right" on it), guess it will be finally over and others will finally have a shot at the market, lol.

So many games that died so fast when the own company tried to BE the black market...

---------- Post added 2011-08-02 at 05:13 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Sidone

It took em too long. That would be a lot if that's the case with this game.
It's like FL trash farming. The first 2 weeks are the most profitable.

Mind you, there are people here who apparantly haven't played any other game but WoW.

Or have played games that ppl like you didn't and saw all this killing those very fast.

---------- Post added 2011-08-02 at 05:15 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Swizzle

How the hell is it morally wrong to allow people to earn some money off of a game they love to play? Hell, how is this even a moral issue? You're not buying stuff from Blizzard, you're buying stuff from other players. Do you appose the regular AH since you can pay to win through that as well? People have done this for years through seedy sites and people have lost money and had their identities stolen. Blizzard just said, "Hold on sonny Jim, don't go losing all your life savings on that random back alley site. If you want to waste real life money on pixels, we are giving you a safe place to do it in".

Good to know that all those chinese farmers, hackers and etc. love the games. And do all for for love...lol

Seems like activision has finally infiltrated Blizzard with their money grabbing practices. Pretty sure this was pointed out when they joined forces. Not surprising. If people are able to gain any advantage in a game simply because they can afford the real life monetary costs, then count me out. I play a game to escape from reality and have some semblance of fairness regardless of how rich or poor I may be in real life. This simply reeks of pure greed. Good luck everyone else.

Originally Posted by Altek Heresy

I will apologize of hand if this comes across as rude. But you are very naive if you think this will have any kind of effect on that. They can’t control the third-party stuff that goes on in their games. I Understand. Solution: Join them and disregard it all together for the time being. And yes, no-one has seen this function in action. But to say that it will not have a direct effect on the actual game is beyond my comprehension. Blizzard put that into the game, so it’s a big part of it. In the end, this is not the end all be all practice. This is just the continuation of things that because people let them, will lead to something even bigger than this. What that will be? Who knows, but we will find out soon enough at this rate.

Things like you can't give (or sold like ppl love making money with games here) your old game to someone else because the company feels that they need to receive the $$ spent on it again the let it be fully functional AGAIN instead of a chopped off version that was alread paid before???

Wonder how they think that these ideas will work... it's not like customer base let them do it... oh wait...

Originally Posted by Borzo

I think you meant to say that a company is legally required to maximize profits for shareholders.

The sentence "morally acceptable to engage in socially immoral practice" doesn't technically make sense either.

Ya all those non-profit organizations are against the law...

The ah thing is most likely the only way that they can make money on the man hours paid to create D3.

Originally Posted by Dragonwing

It is really sad when people feel the need to stop playing a game they like in order to make a 'statement'.

Very simple, right now Blizzard is alread counting all the their profit with the game as "people who will just buy it = normal profit" + "people who will buy it and pay us more using our AH = normal profit + extra".

Right now they're not acknowledging the option "people won't buy it because our behavior is unaceptable".

So yes, the most efective way to make a "statement" is not buying it. Do whatever you want. Forget about it, torrent it, play other games... but don't buy it.

Originally Posted by Kalief

Ya all those non-profit organizations are against the law...

I'm actually pretty sure that a for-profit corporation, with shareholders, have a mandate - enforceable by law - to maximize profits for those shareholders.

Originally Posted by Altek Heresy

Which is where this will eventually lead to? Whether you think so or not, that is the logical next step in this business model. Once Blizzard sees the money they generate just from transactions that they do not initiate. What is to stop them from adding "vanity/premium items" to the game in order to maximize the monetary gain? Not a thing since the player base is ok with the issue as long as they can get a “piece”. Or maybe I am wrong and this may well revolutionize the gaming industry all together for the better. Who knows, but I do thank MMO champion’s user base for intelligent arguments.

Their next premium feature is paying to remove the limitations of the system for posting itens, etc. I don't doubt they will sell something like a "AH PRO-USER PREMIUM SERVICE" pack...

Unfortunately the only statement companies and businesses understand are those made with $$$. Whining, crying, QQing, complaining, etc on forums and blogs doesn't affect them unless it causes them to actually lose sales. If you have something important to say, you need to speak with your wallet.

The economy is like a democracy, except $1 = 1 vote.

(Actually that formula applies to typical American "democracy" as well....)

Originally Posted by asharia

most challenging boss? what? it took like 2 weeks.

If you read what Paragon wrote about the boss, it took them over 500 wipes to get the kill. Wrap your head around that number. They took 500 attempts at a boss that lasts 15+ minutes in two weeks time. Imagine if they held a normal work week and maintained a 3-4 hour raid night. How long would the boss take to kill then? At best, you can get in 15 wipes an hour and that number goes down the further you get into the fight. That is a lot of time spent on one encounter. As far as I can remember, no boss took them that many wipes to get down, not even H LK or Alone in the Darkness.

In conclusion, when the people who have actually killed a fight say it is the hardest fight that has been in the game in a very, VERY long time, I'd value their opinion over some anonymous person bitching on a forum about things he/she has yet to do. Then again, I am an elitist asshole.

---------- Post added 2011-08-02 at 05:42 PM ----------

Also, before I forget to re-address this...Blizzard isn't selling items to anyone, PLAYERS are selling gear to other PLAYERS. In a technical sense, they still haven't changed their policies or lied to anyone, people just don't want to admit that this is the same thing as an already existing auction house...it just uses a different currency. Is trading Pokemon to get them to evolve unfair since it is unobtainable to those players who don't trade? Is buying a Darkmoon Card: Volcano from a scribe unfair to all those people who are either not scribes or don't have the gold to buy it? Shit no, D3 is not a MMO like WoW, so their models on pricing and playability do not coincide. Grow the fuck up and l2business.

Originally Posted by Derkin

They have high resolution gallery from press-kit.

The press kit images are the ones from the news post yesterday; these are additional screenshots (including character auction house) which weren't there.