Dragon Soul Progression, RIFT Database Compromise, Blue Posts, The Daily Blink

go stars!!!

Originally Posted by Jsrz

I hate this favoritism for Paragon, as soon as they kill the spine, front page on MMO-Champion, Kin Raiders got world first on the end boss and they just barely got a sight on the frontpage......

Ye its been like this for a long time all this butt kissing but now there cheating nobodys, who gives a fuck about paragon?
i mean who gives a fuck about coming anywhere but first? Sorry but the games over we already have winners in both 25man and 10 man.
Suck it up,,,oh and also...cheaters never win!

Originally Posted by Turaska

Normally I love Daily Blinks and can't remember the last time they did a bad one, but this one kind of failed hard. The only reason KIN and STARS got world first and world second was because of the LFR suspensions. I'm not saying they shouldnt count and respect should be given to KIN and STARS as they've basically come out of nowhere for this and clearly put alot of work into it. But I am saying they should be considered as the entire T13 race has just been 1 big farce. Look at it this way - Paragon got the spine on the 22nd of December and started raiding 25 man HC on the 14th of December due to the LFR bans, it took them 1 day to get to the spine and an additional 7 to kill it.. so lets turn the clock back 7 days - they would have had the world first on the 15th of December, 2 days before KIN.

They may be the best guild in the world still, but that won't change the fact that they didn't get world 1st. KIN did.

I'm surpised <Silent> isn't getting a lot more comments. People were foaming at KIN, Stars, and In Extremis making unexplainable leaps up the guild rankings and blamed bugs, multiple lockouts (lol), and Blizzard interference. What about these EU-server guys? They've jumped up from well out of the top-100 in 4.2, and no Synestra kill in 4.0.

Originally Posted by Pigy

How come you neglect the MAIN thing making 10 man harder? By that logic I could say "Well some encounters are harder because you're more people but that's a different story". You need to bring into perspective what it MEANS to only have 10 raiders. You get less raid cooldowns, for one (trust me, i'm feeling this one on Zon'ozz and Ultraxion) It's a bigger deal to swap out a healer etc. instead of losing 14 % of your total healing (assuming 7 healers, I haven't raided 25 man, but you're 2.5x more players, meaning 2.5 times more healers probably) we lose 33% (!) of our total raid healing because of one player.

Bottom line, you can't say 10 man is easier because you favor 25 man, Nor do I say 10 man is harder ALWAYS. Different bosses are harder on different player settings, Yor'sajh is a shining example of one were 25 man is significantly harder.

I'm not saying anything about which is harder, I haven't raided since WotLK so I can't judge the difficulties. I just want to say that your math is flawed. You have a 2/3/5 comp in 10man, you bench 1 healer and have 66% of healing and 120% of dps. On 25 you have 2/6/17 comp (at least that's what I presume from the damage meter in this post), you bench a healer and you have 83% of healing but only 106% of damage. Even when you bench 2 healers, you have the same healing as if you bench 1 healer on 10 man but only 111% of your former damage. Ergo benching healers is actually better damage increase mathematically on 10 man than on 25. (The fact that finetuning the right amount is harder in lower amounts of people is a different thing though, that you should've mentioned instead)

This is creepy. Soo I haven't played wow for some time now because I'm playing Starcraft and somehow wherever I am there it is. The ladder is calling me. Boxer hwaiting. GJ Daily blink you are still as good as I remember

Actually the nerfed spine the day Paragon got banned. So if you turn the clock back 7 days they would be fighting and impossible gear check for well let's check my calculater hmmm, 7 more days. The night Blood Legion downed Warmaster they buffed spine by like 20% health on all the NPC's, then nerfed it again a week later. Artificial gating yay!

Originally Posted by ZenX

No, its just that you try to bash others with your baseless opinion while trying to present it as a fact at the same time, this I cannot stand by, now if you further your actions trying to reply to without not going as far as to read or understand my comment, that would only make me get fixated on you, to the point that you'd somehow get to stand by it. That's all.

Though if my actions were for voiding your argument, to the point that you'd accept the errors of your ways and begin insulting me in a hopeless manner, that would still prove my point.

---o---

Sigh as I've stated times and times again, 10-man and 25-man can be made equal, however, we would end-up paying up with even further homogenized specs to the point that we'd essentially end up with:
1- Tanks
2- Healers
3- Casters
4- Melee
5- Pet-assisted

Furthermore, such an optimization would either yield undertuned or overtuned (all) bosses for both difficulties, this tier was a pretty much close one, the only problem is how players have interpreted the data of kills for respective difficulties in a wrong resulting in the same flame-war...

So because you've stated it several times it's a fact that everyone should just agree to...aha. 25 man has 15 HUMANS more and that's a huge factor. In my mind there's to many factors, it's not equal now and won't be just because you state your oppinion several times.

May I ask, you raid 10 man right? Have you tried both?

Again, it seems like 10 man guilds think that 25 man is just 10 man content been done with 15 people more!

You have your oppinion and that's just fine, we don't have to agree

Originally Posted by BoneLoc

So because you've stated it several times it's a fact that everyone should just agree to...aha. 25 man has 15 HUMANS more and that's a huge factor. In my mind there's to many factors, it's not equal now and won't be just because you state your oppinion several times.

My I ask, you raid 10 man right? Have you tried both?

Again, it seems like 10 man guilds think that 25 man is just 10 man content been done with 15 people more!

You have your opinion and that's just fine, we don't have to agree

I have raided 25 for the entirety of WotLK, while still doing 10m, and had progressed 10m and 25m alike in t11, and switched 10m for t12 after I have returned from my hiatus, where I had found my guild both migrated and FC'd with a reduction to 10m.

As I have stated in my posts, it is not about there 15 people more, but rather how their performance is effective compared to their raid size, with how compositions yielding more variant possibilities in 25m than 10m, making it more versatile, with that possibility of versatility may get reflected to difficulty to the point that people mistake it for 25m being difficult than 10m due to how they had upon their transition had hand-picked the better one from their greater roster of supposedly good players. This is similar to how people argue regarding how Baleroc was harder due to its while they were very well able to orchestrate a tactic of kiting him at enrage, with a scenario of 2 players being ineligible to dps at such a time would translate 6 players for 25m.

I think it is the general part of playerbase who is the flag carrier to the idea of 25m>10m, that thinks that 10m is 25m tuned for 20 people less, while it isn't.
In essence, it is similar to how Frost DW and Unholy dps is for DKs(t13), while they are really close in sims, the upper limit is dependent on how well the player can channel their execution capabilities regarding the mechanics of respective fights. However, people only argue one being more easier to play than the other solely due to how many top end players or "scrubs" play them, while considering the spec EZ mode due how a Frost 2H that does not care for the diseases gets to steamroll you in BGs due to you having no-resi gear on you etc.

Specs are close enough similar to how BM and MM is close to each other on sims, while top raiders, have to be MM due to sustain that small difference of 3.6%, while this does not translate for the lower-end players who wouldn't see something more than 1% of a difference, and at the time they reach the same boss, if that 1% really matters that is due some other player in the group no doing their work properly.

Simply put, in such topics of discussion(Be it 10m or 25m being argued to be harder or easier) how every other person trying uphold their argument as a fact while disregarding everyone else, yet trying go under the "opinion" rock whenever their argument is proven to be void, rather just admitting they're wrong and retreat.

What I simply want, is provide proper proof if you are trying to argue on such matters, and if you don't have the balls/vagina to do that, your just flaming.

All this debate about what MMO-Champ should track and shouldn't track... fundamentally isn't MMO-Champ not an official WoW site? It's a godly site, but at the end of the day shouldn't the standard that it decides to follow be determined by what the staff of MMO-Champion, not by Blizzard or anyone else for that matter?

As far as I see it, debates are fine, but some people are strutting about with misplaced and way out of proportion senses of entitlement acting like they somehow know better than all the folks that put this site together and asserting what MMO-Champ NEEDS to comment on regarding progression.

It's not like the info isn't out there. Sites like WoWProgress and Guildox shows what's being done at a glance (albeit a bit clumsily for some groups, though this usually isn't a problem for world top guilds as these guilds won't be doing raiding alliances and the like, which is what can confuse these tracking sites).

Besides, to those people asserting things along the line of Blizzard "counting" progression, last I checked there wasn't even a blue-based compilation of kills, achievements and relative dates of accomplishment outside of manually digging through Armory, which is what non-official sites like WoWProgress and Guildox automatically pull from. TLDR: If it upsets you THAT MUCH, go make your own site, build it up like MMO-Champ did, and then you can show/comment on whatever way you'd want to do with the progression rankings. For everyone else who are sensible enough to participate in discussions, happy holidays!

Originally Posted by ZenX

I have raided 25 for the entirety of WotLK, while still doing 10m, and had progressed 10m and 25m alike in t11, and switched 10m for t12 after I have returned from my hiatus, where I had found my guild both migrated and FC'd with a reduction to 10m.

As I have stated in my posts, it is not about there 15 people more, but rather how their performance is effective compared to their raid size, with how compositions yielding more variant possibilities in 25m than 10m, making it more versatile, with that possibility of versatility may get reflected to difficulty to the point that people mistake it for 25m being difficult than 10m due to how they had upon their transition had hand-picked the better one from their greater roster of supposedly good players. This is similar to how people argue regarding how Baleroc was harder due to its while they were very well able to orchestrate a tactic of kiting him at enrage, with a scenario of 2 players being ineligible to dps at such a time would translate 6 players for 25m.

I think it is the general part of playerbase who is the flag carrier to the idea of 25m>10m, that thinks that 10m is 25m tuned for 20 people less, while it isn't.
In essence, it is similar to how Frost DW and Unholy dps is for DKs(t13), while they are really close in sims, the upper limit is dependent on how well the player can channel their execution capabilities regarding the mechanics of respective fights. However, people only argue one being more easier to play than the other solely due to how many top end players or "scrubs" play them, while considering the spec EZ mode due how a Frost 2H that does not care for the diseases gets to steamroll you in BGs due to you having no-resi gear on you etc.

Specs are close enough similar to how BM and MM is close to each other on sims, while top raiders, have to be MM due to sustain that small difference of 3.6%, while this does not translate for the lower-end players who wouldn't see something more than 1% of a difference, and at the time they reach the same boss, if that 1% really matters that is due some other player in the group no doing their work properly.

Simply put, in such topics of discussion(Be it 10m or 25m being argued to be harder or easier) how every other person trying uphold their argument as a fact while disregarding everyone else, yet trying go under the "opinion" rock whenever their argument is proven to be void, rather just admitting they're wrong and retreat.

What I simply want, is provide proper proof if you are trying to argue on such matters, and if you don't have the balls/vagina to do that, your just flaming.

You have some idea about how things are, that dosn't make is proof of anything. I say one thing, you disagree, you say one thing and I disagree and the world keeps turning and Blizzard still going to do what they want!

But make you a bet, 25 man is going to be cut from wow in the expansion after Pandaland aside from 25 LFR. So until that i am going to raid 25 man and you will raid 10 man and hopefully we both will be happy about it

Originally Posted by Torian kel

On that one Boubouille fails hardcore. Silent is second World and killed Spine before Paragon and they aren't even mentionned. Pitiful Boubouille

This is WoWProgress ranking, I don't reinterpret other people's data just to make you happy. Best I can do is give you a hug.

Originally Posted by jacob

wtf ...sad how they mentioned about paragon rigth when they down it... why didnt he make a post when stars downed it

You're a big fat phony. We didn't news Paragon in ages (probably since they got banned/apologized), I did however news a korean first kill while I was on a fucking plane, don't go all QQ favoritism on me.

Who cares? Everyone knows video game mastery is a racial passive for Asian kids!

Diablo gadgets only available in USA. Muthafucka.

Its really sad seeing all these people saying 25man is harder than 10 man and vice versa. The content is tuned/balanced around the number of players that the mode supports, nothing more. More 10man kills doesnt mean its easier, (i thought this would be clear even to the not so bright individuals out there), it just means that there are more 10 man guilds out there because, (and i can vouch for this coming from eu's lowest populated server), it can be nightmare to put a 25 man squad together.

Until blizz say otherwise why dont you just stick a freaking cork in it cos its getting boring and...this may come as a shock to a lot of you...we really dont care!! Are things really that bad for you in real life that stroking your ego and thinking your better than someone else because of what size squad you raid in an MMO make you feel better? Its pathetic and i feel sorry for you, you people give this game a bad name. None of you have any proof to back your claims, its all just ego-inflated opinions.

Now im off to measure lightsabers in swtor...

1. kin raiders 2. paragon 3. who cares

Rift OWND!

They take our Blizzcon ringsThey take our world firstThey dominate us in SC2Someone needs to stop this madness.

Originally Posted by BoneLoc

You have some idea about how things are, that dosn't make is proof of anything. I say one thing, you disagree, you say one thing and I disagree and the world keeps turning and Blizzard still going to do what they want!

But make you a bet, 25 man is going to be cut from wow in the expansion after Pandaland aside from 25 LFR. So until that i am going to raid 25 man and you will raid 10 man and hopefully we both will be happy about it

Actually, with how raiding turned out to be with t12, aka having to rip your ass for 2 months to see the same bosses become easier in the same cycle through nerfs to the point that you could have killed them almost 10% of the time you've spent, I had simply quit the raiding scene, and had quit the game until blizzcon where they had announced modes that would allow others to see story development through easier modes(aka PvE Scenarios and LFR) for accessibility which made me happy, as the way I played the game previously didn't seem natural to me as I am the kind of person that would spend 90% of his free-time for finishing a novel. Except LFR, I'm not touching raiding, and assuming that DW HC modes has no additional story elements to add-in to the game, I won't be stepping up to do anything above LFR for at least 1-2 months.

Regarding how raids are to be modified, only the time will tell, as a prediction for 25m's removal is just too early to be thrown.

BoxeR hwaiting! Code S champion 2012!

It's the emperor!