Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. mmoceb49e7900c's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by KWC3587 View Post
    Because they offer you better gear in exchange, the only thing we get when we re-earn flying over and over again is......the same thing we had before until they took it away in order to artificially extend the content's lifespan. As someone else said, would it feel engaging and rewarding if you had to re-earn your ground mounts every expansion? No, it would feel ridiculous. You're not getting anything new or better, you're just getting it again with nothing additional.
    The gear they offer is not better, my gear is end-game gear. How can the new gear possible be better than end-game gear.

    Oh and it was never stated by blizzard that they guarantee you will always be able to use your flying mount.
    I've had flying since tbc and never once did i end up crying like a spoiled brat when I could not use it.
    Deal with it.
  1. Ejmis's Avatar
    About the Hearthstone Beta, Have anyone recieved their code?
  1. KWC3587's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaiwyn View Post
    I was fine with them deciding to disallow flying till 6.1. Until they decided it would be a questline. For casual players, that won't bode well, unless it is short and basic and merely locked until the patch. There must be pretty awesome content for them to make gaining flight so important.
    Unfortunately from the blue post I do not believe this to be the case. From the sound of it, it's something they expect you to be doing all during 6.0. That means you will still have to do all of it during 6.1 if you come in at that point or later, as they still want it to be a content extender so expect something that takes weeks to a month at least.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterpewn View Post
    The gear they offer is not better, my gear is end-game gear. How can the new gear possible be better than end-game gear.

    Oh and it was never stated by blizzard that they guarantee you will always be able to use your flying mount.
    I've had flying since tbc and never once did i end up crying like a spoiled brat when I could not use it.
    Deal with it.
    Actually I've had green drops in new expansions that were better than my previous raiding gear, so yes it was in fact offered. Also crafting gear during an expansion can be better than the previous tier's raiding gear, so that rewards my efforts in making it. Also I would take 6 plus years of it being available as somewhat of a precedent, and I'm perfectly fine with having to level without it. What I am not fine with is the fact that I not only have to pay for it over and over again, now combined with it being taken away for two to three months after max level only to extend content run time. Put engaging content in that makes me want to experience it every day and you won't have to take flying away from me and force me to re-earn it just to get me to play.
  1. rebecca191's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsBeard View Post
    I find this to be such a silly reason to refuse to play for a patch. Unless you plan on rushing to level cap, (no world first this time from what i hear) then you wouldn't even be able to use a flying mount anyway for a good while. Plus if your going to quit WoW (based on your "if ever") then see ya later. You most not have liked the game that much to begin with and flying was the only think keeping you in. Which is silly in and of its self.
    It wasn't the only reason I play but restricting it that much is a deal breaker because I LOVE flying. With the latest post I doubt I'll be picking up this expac at all.
  1. Rafekee's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ejmis View Post
    About the Hearthstone Beta, Have anyone recieved their code?
    Haven't got mine yet.
  1. Spartin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ejmis View Post
    About the Hearthstone Beta, Have anyone recieved their code?
    I haven't which makes me wonder what they mean by testing because I've used it to download stuff but I haven't seen it do anything else.
  1. mmoc1e4c5b7903's Avatar
    I mean they stole your belongings and gave it to you as a gift you ungrateful jerk.
    This seems so obvious. Do they really believe they can make flying feel like a "reward" by taking it away from us and then making us work our asses off to get it back?

    It really feel like someone stealed your car and now is asking for money to give it back to you .
    Great gameplay mechanic Blizzard .

    Alex Afrasiabi , if you ever read this : feeling blackmailed is not a good game mechanic.


    You're entirely entitled to an opinion. This game however is not a democracy, Blizzard's opinion will prevail.
    OFC Blizzard opinion will prevail . If they decided to go bankrupt we cannot stop them .
    We can just stop giving them money and laugh at them in the end.
    Anyway , I will vote with the wallet this time . Acount frozen .
  1. mmoc878ebd00c0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    You're entirely entitled to an opinion. This game however is not a democracy, Blizzard's opinion will prevail. As developers they feel this will be good for our gameplay experience. And i for one agree and support it. 100% support.
    Except it is a democracy. They WILL listen, or they will lose money until the game is no longer profitable and shut down.
    Just like what happened with Real ID displaying your real name etc on their forums. How did that work out for them.

    Oh right, people protested, and they were forced to comply or suffer monumental losses.
  1. Coronius's Avatar
    Great decision. I'm very surprised, in a positive way.
  1. Alixlegend90's Avatar
    I use the blizzard app on desktop since it was released. no hearthstone beta invite yet, anyone knows what is the problem ?
  1. TCceen's Avatar
    So, it undermines the game where exactly? Even without flying I would go from Shrine flight path to farm, flight path to Timeless isles? I still wouldn't FIGHT my way on the ground in an epic massive battle to get to my farm to get my cloth!!!!! .... daily.... and if u make me quest for it? sux to be my alts cuz they wont get it!!!!
  1. jinreeko's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Except it is a democracy. They WILL listen, or they will lose money until the game is no longer profitable and shut down.
    Just like what happened with Real ID displaying your real name etc on their forums. How did that work out for them.

    Oh right, people protested, and they were forced to comply or suffer monumental losses.
    You expect that they will suffer such great losses to income because of people throwing a hissyfit and refusing to buy a cool new expansion because they can't fly for a few months without a little questing? That seems a little naive
  1. Korru's Avatar
    I got a key! Oh wait, it's a fake one from those dang phishers!
  1. KWC3587's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jinreeko View Post
    You expect that they will suffer such great losses to income because of people throwing a hissyfit and refusing to buy a cool new expansion because they can't fly for a few months without a little questing? That seems a little naive
    Sure, after all people said they wouldn't cave when all blizzard asked they do is put their real name out for public view on the forums, and a hissyfit as you call it caused them to reverse that decision practically overnight.
  1. MisterMxyzptlk's Avatar
    http://www.hearthpwn.com/blue-tracke...ing-out?page=2
    closed beta people are the ONLY ones getting it, not open beta so unless you got an email from blizz asking you to try the desktop app... you aint getting it.
    PLEASE update the front page here to reflect this so people stop getting there hopes up then getting them crushed

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KWC3587 View Post
    Sure, after all people said they wouldn't cave when all blizzard asked they do is put their real name out for public view on the forums, and a hissyfit as you call it caused them to reverse that decision practically overnight.
    yes but that was a REAL personal PRIVACY and SAFETY issue not a game play whining issue
  1. KWC3587's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMxyzptlk View Post
    http://www.hearthpwn.com/blue-tracke...ing-out?page=2
    closed beta people are the ONLY ones getting it, not open beta so unless you got an email from blizz asking you to try the desktop app... you aint getting it.
    PLEASE update the front page here to reflect this so people stop getting there hopes up then getting them crushed

    - - - Updated - - -



    yes but that was a REAL personal PRIVACY and SAFETY issue not a game play whining issue
    Funny thing is, Blizzard saw it as no issue at all until people raised a fuss about it. So speaking out when you feel something is wrong does indeed seem to be a way to get them to change their minds on issues that people feel is important. So, going further if enough people express to them that they feel flying being delayed until 6.1 is an issue, then I'd say there is a far better than even chance of them changing it. The mighty dollar speaks the loudest to blizzard.
  1. Cirque's Avatar
    This is what bothers me with Blizzard, their confusion between reward and frustration-finally.

    you cannot take away something players had for years and then expect that when you give it back to them, it'll be felt as a reward. It'll be a "finafuckingly" moment.
  1. purebalance's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    Guess I won't be playing until the patch if ever. Stupid move and an absolute deal breaker for me.
    They already said it won't be simply "at the patch". It will be something akin to the first 2 parts of the legendary cloak.
  1. Korthas's Avatar
    Sorry, but this is just dumb. The flying Pandora's box has been open and its too late to try to close it now. I don't have a problem with not being able to fly while leveling from 90-100, but when I reach max level you better damn well give me my flying back. I also want flying on my alts. I have already been through the content now let me enjoy it as I want.

    Travel Time != Content
  1. Stacie's Avatar
    Personally i like to play the game with flying mounts. It's all fun the first time round but after that meh its crappy nothing wrong with giving away flying when you hit cap no need to get all "oh we want it to be epic crap" they can't stand with that statement when they are giving away free epics and legendary at the same time.

    Flying is actually something i do play WoW for as a mount collector being able to use those mounts is a big deal for me I'm not sure i want to pay for a game i can't do this in so might not sub until able to. I'm not going to pay for something ill have less fun playing than currently.

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