Blackrock Foundry Stats, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month, Symmetra Gameplay

Originally Posted by Buu

The fuck with YOUR mentality? So a game that gives ZERO interesting things to their customers, should keep people being customers WHY?
Why the heck should people keep paying subscriptions and participating in something that gives a rat's ass about what they rthink and like?
SPECIALLY when it's an MMO. A MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER that shrink their audience?
You are set to be a cry baby, whining about empty servers very soon, fanboy.

Geez, go open a business with this mentality to see how long it goes. EVEN BETTER. GO CHECK WHAT HAPPENED TO EA FOR KEEPING "THEIR VISION".

The day Blizzard forces you to pay for and play their game will be the day this argument of yours makes sense.

I usually don't care one way or another about arguments concerning what the vocal minority do and do not want in the game, but I felt like your comment was so ridiculously out of touch with reality that it deserved a response. I did have a feeling that you would accuse me of being a fanboy since you would be too dense to realize that I wasn't really defending Blizzard but rather pointing out the arrogance of people like yourself.

You're a customer. One of many. You don't dictate company policy and vision. You choose to pay for the product or you choose not to.

Originally Posted by Buu

The fuck with YOUR mentality? So a game that gives ZERO interesting things to their customers, should keep people being customers WHY?
Why the heck should people keep paying subscriptions and participating in something that gives a rat's ass about what they rthink and like?
SPECIALLY when it's an MMO. A MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER that shrink their audience?
You are set to be a cry baby, whining about empty servers very soon, fanboy.

Geez, go open a business with this mentality to see how long it goes. EVEN BETTER. GO CHECK WHAT HAPPENED TO EA FOR KEEPING "THEIR VISION".

ALL YOUR CAPS.

They've obviously successfully reigned over the MMO world for this long. Even the one comment you are talking about doesn't say what you think. Good lord :|

Originally Posted by Buu

The fuck with YOUR mentality? So a game that gives ZERO interesting things to their customers, should keep people being customers WHY?

Probably because the game isn't at "ZERO interesting things" and you just wish it was.

Stop arguing with your headcanon.

Originally Posted by Adamas102

The day Blizzard forces you to pay for and play their game will be the day this argument of yours makes sense.

I usually don't care one way or another about arguments concerning what the vocal minority do and do not want in the game, but I felt like your comment was so ridiculously out of touch with reality that it deserved a response. I did have a feeling that you would accuse me of being a fanboy since you would be too dense to realize that I wasn't really defending Blizzard but rather pointing out the arrogance of people like yourself.

You're a customer. One of many. You don't dictate company policy and vision. You choose to pay for the product or you choose not to.

"Love it or leave it" is quite a silly stance to take and awfully foolish if you sincerely care for the game. Odds are you simply agree with the developers and are defending them.

The problem that you don't get, and perhaps this is me showing my age, is MMO's require inertia to keep moving. During Cata we had a *huge* drop of subs and friends lists got smaller and smaller by the week. When you have no friends to run with, you either quit or find another guild you'll enjoy. Remember guild rep and how "fun" that was supposed to be? Oh my but I digress. You really should know what you're saying is: I want people who will play or quit the game based on big issues without complaining or discussion. If this is what you what, you will end up in a dead world.

Yes, we know *and* have seen, them ignore feedback. Repeatedly. They lie and mislead. They fail to communicate. They can't be trusted to be consistent. We've seen this since Cata but more pronounced in WoD.

MMO's kill themselves and WoW is starting down that path as we see in sub losses. They are making excuses and it's still not too late to turn the ship around and appeal to the majority.

If it's "hard love" they want to give then that's fine -- so long as you understand -- you're going to lose many friends and guilds from it who simply disagree and won't speak up because people like you shut them down and backup Blizzard.

So yeah, go ahead, if you want WoW to suffocate.. go on with your bad self. Keep hammering people on them spouting their opinions. Rock on. Just know.. you're bringing it on yourself. Be careful what you wish for... I said this when they said WoD wouldn't have flying until the "first major patch" and hinted and maybe later in the expansion. I warned, and was subsequently mocked, that they would *never* hold such a key feature back like that for so long. And we see where we are now.

People won't "quit" over flying -- but flying certainly will be what finally breaks the deal for a non-trivial amount of people. It'll be the straw that breaks the camels back which, if you're even remotely passionate -- you should understand that this means LESS PEOPLE TO INTERACT WITH in a MMO. That's not good. You want *more* people playing, not less.

The others here are being nitpicky and just grasping desperately at the little things to mock people over. "Game offers ZERO" -- and instead of arguing and rebuking the point, you attack the person as well as their decision to use, likely as a hyperbolic answer. That tells you right there you're not here for a sincere discussion. You just want to attack people and defend Blizzard. Right, wrong, or indifferent -- that's all you're doing. You simply agree with Blizzard and simply don't grasp where others are coming from nor do I think you care to investigate why they feel the way they do.

Originally Posted by Shudder

Nah, they were using 3.1 million accounts to do the graphs before the huge sub loss. Now it's down to 2.1 million. You actually think that 7 million number is western accounts? Oh my, you're so adorable.

There are 3.3 Western accounts at the moment. Not 2.1. The sample size used is 2.1 because not they don't track accounts not in guilds or just don't raid. Do you actually think blizzard is down to 2.1 million accounts in US and EU?

So, if I understand correctly, of 2.1 million accounts sampled, only about 50 have done LFR? what is the other half of the population doing? levelling? pvp? bots?

In reality, people just want to be able to have cameras all around Blizzard's offices and watch them work all day long. That's the ultimate way of "being in touch with the community", isn't it ? A lot of players expect more transparency with the dev team of WoW than with their government. This is getting silly. Blizzard fell into the trap of communicating on every little aspect of the game. Now players expect a direct discussion with a dev, as an equal, expecting the feeling of being part of the dev team also. it's not realistic. I've seen on some comments on a youtube channel about wow, some guy saying "blizzard should make you part of the developpment team", "they should hire you". You're not a dev just because you're giving feedback on a game.
The problem with the actual WoW is too much feedback. The devs are trying to give players everything they want and still keep their vision intact. But it's impossible and the game suffer from it. The feedback on Vanilla or TBC was more honest, and people didn't nitpick on everything. Or maybe they just accepted Blizzard's vision. Now they want a different game but still it being Warcraft.

Originally Posted by ElDoorO

/snip

While your response was certainly more eloquent than Buu's, there are a few things you misunderstand.

I wasn't mocking his nitpicking or hyperbole. I was calling into question his absurd mentality that a game developer should sacrifice whatever vision they have for their product simply to appease their customers.

I'm NOT passionate about the game, never was. My stance doesn't come from that of a fanboy. I also am not worried about empty servers. Everyone I knew who played this game left DURING TBC and Wrath (and they weren't part of the ~3mil that returned for WoD either). Most of my time is spent doing solo content, anyway. You see, WoW didn't start losing subs during Cata. Everyone likes to talk about all the subs that left during Cata and MoP because they wrongfully believe that those expansions (and in effect, Blizzard's vision for the game) led to the downward trend on the quarterly graphs. WoW lost millions of subs from vanilla through TBC through WotLK. What happened around the time of Cata was that the half a decade old game stopped bringing in more players than it was losing. This is a whole different discussion, but I mention it because the whole "Blizzard has been fucking up this game since Cata, and now this is the straw that broke the camel's back" argument seems to come up often.

I'm not telling you to "love it or leave it". There's a HUGE range between those two extremes. You're wrong about me not knowing where the anger is coming from, but you're right about me not caring. I really, honestly, truly don't care about what direction you think this game should go. I also don't care what direction Blizzard decides to go. It's their product and they should be free to do with it as they will. While criticism and feedback are useful, expecting a company that develops artistic content to cater to your desires is not. In the end it's just a game and I will continue to play it as long as it continues to provide some level of enjoyment. While there are plenty of things I would like to change to make the game more tailored to what I want (some things that you would agree with, others that you would not), it's not my place to tell Blizzard that those changes are as it should be and that their game is shit without said changes.

When I say something along the lines of "if you don't like it then leave", I'm not saying it out of spite or to defend Blizzard. I'm fully prepared to leave the moment I no longer enjoy this game enough to balance out the cost.

The game is no longer about being an RPG, it's just a game for people to play and get rewards in a new age of less work, big rewards. Long ago the magic that once was an RPG went away. The minute the players start questioning the Dungeon Masters, it ceases to be an RPG. The developers are there to supply a worthwhile adventure, but the feedback over the years has removed more and more of the adventure and replaced it with 20 minute tasks that aren't fun but more repetitive, dungeons that aren't exciting but 20-30 minute free for alls, and less interaction with our fellow players and more interaction with things like Facebook and Twitter followers. The playerbase has become absolutely toxic, both on forums, here, fansites, youtube, in-game, etc. Players are no longer gamers, but people looking for something tailored to their individual or collective liking, rather than being given the Dungeon Master's parameters and playing what the DM had in mind. When Blizzard pushes back, players play the customer card. In the end we get a mish-mash of suggestions that tear a little bit away from the game that's lasted for a very long time.

Blizzard walked into their own trap of communicating too much, rather than letting them roll out the magic, and they get hammered every step of the way. Maybe the game needs less subs, more unhappy snowflakes to actually stop playing, then we can get about the business of gaming again with better design and less whining.

the second chart is confusing..

on the third chart i missing the lfr/normal/heroic/mythic buttons..

overall a bad chart show.. :-(

I guess their answer to flying will be something like this

"Our statistics shows that 100% of the people playing in WoD areas love no flight since they are all using a ground mount".

What's your view on how silent the WoW devs have been on classes changes since you left?
I'm obviously not privy to their thought process. Do remember there is a difference between individual intent and company policy.

Greg, always wandered if Activision and Cata where the breaking points when the Buddy GC had to stop to chat in the boards.
It became Blizzard policy, but it wasn't from Activision. Not sure what the policy is now of course.

Wow, that's pretty interesting.
It might be that the devs actually may have to say a great deal about the sad state of the game, but are not allowed to.

Thank god we still have Ion Hazzikosta's "everything is fine" interviews.

Btw I think it's interesting that he is almost always referred to by his real name. Ghostcrawler at least came across a bit like "one of us" while I don't know if Ion Hazzikostas even plays this game. All we get from him is the "lawyer who tries to appease investors in external interviews" vibe.

Originally Posted by Bogrim

This expansion is becoming a signature of poor communication and subscriber drops. At this rate, it won't be remembered as "the expansion that brought WoW back" but as "the expansion where WoW lost tons of subs and also decided to kill flying in an interview."

I fear that this expac might eventually become known as WoW's NGE.

Originally Posted by Arvandor

the second chart is confusing..

on the third chart i missing the lfr/normal/heroic/mythic buttons..

overall a bad chart show.. :-(

Second chart compares boss progression on a specific difficulty among the people who are actually attempting it. So like of that teeny 5% of players that actually do Mythic about half of them have completed half the bosses.

Third chart is just the percent of people who have the Wing achieves, no point in trying to split into LFR/N/H/M as the first chart does that far more accurately than this would. I dunno if you could even reliably separate the data out.

Found them pretty informative myself.

GC definately saw this shit storm coming and bailed at the right time.

Originally Posted by Tatakau

GC definately saw this shit storm coming and bailed at the right time.

Yeah my thinking too, bet he is secretly laughing his head off over all this..

Figures are utterly meaningless unless its all active accounts since X period. That said, the figures that are presented paint a pretty dire picture for raiding, less and less people seem to be bothered by raiding, even LFR, the most basic form of raiding has taken a knock in people attending.

Just enable flying already in Draenor, except for Tanaan Jungle.

There have been many valid points made about the flying-issue, on both sides of it. I am part of that category of people who don't mind, either way it goes, we're fine with it. Don't get me wrong, that's not for a lack of love for the game, but because I can adapt to new situations without making a huge deal out of them. I survived before flying and I'll survive when it's gone - not to mention I really don't mind the experiment in itself (which is what it was). I voice my concerns when I have them, but I also chose carefully my battles: Warlords of Draenor was clearly designed without flight in mind, the decision spurred a lot of feedback, which I am 100% positive Blizzard read given it was a huge change. Months in, there haven't been new arguments pro or against flying, it's the old same repeated all over again. There is the increased drama and flame, though.

I wish that the vocal pro-flying crew realized that Blizzard hears you but disagrees. Let the concept sinks in. Seriously though, take a few minutes and let the idea really sink in. You might not agree with them disagreeing but that's just how it is. What you are doing now is throwing an epic tantrum which is just killing it for everyone. You are putting Blizzard in a position where they simply cannnot say anymore "We were wrong" or "The experiment failed" - even if they wanted to - and you know why? Because if they concede on this one huge controversal topic now that it has became totally toxic, they will be your bitch for the rest of their days. And that's worse for the game than non-flying: it means who cries louder dictates the direction WoW will go. I think we can agree it would be bad for the game, can't we? That's parenting 101: when your kids throw a tantrum, you don't give them what they want.

Accept the fact it is Blizzard's decision and let it go. Stop talking about it, let the issue rest and you can hope to open a calm dialog before next expansion. They're not killing flying, people who can't take NO for an answer are killing flying for everyone. Stop it, please.

Originally Posted by Mizix

They're not killing flying, people who can't take NO for an answer are killing flying for everyone. Stop it, please.

No, I'm pretty sure it's them that are canning flying

Originally Posted by Eon Drache

There are 3.3 Western accounts at the moment. Not 2.1. The sample size used is 2.1 because not they don't track accounts not in guilds or just don't raid. Do you actually think blizzard is down to 2.1 million accounts in US and EU?

I do yes, that number makes a lot of sense. 1.2 million haven't logged in since April 1st. This is what pisses me off about Blizzard, they inflate their sub numbers with chinese time cards that have no bearing on us in the west. If they came out and said "2.1 million western subscriptions" then that looks hell of a lot different compared to 500k the other games are rocking. It's shady shit.