Patch 8.1 Hotfixes - December 20, FinalBossTV #177 - State of Melee DPS

There are currently 9 DKs in the top 500 3v3 players in the US.
There are currently 18 DKs in the top 500 2v2 players in the US.
There are currently 2 DKs in the top 500 3v3 players in the EU.
There are currently 12 DKs in the top 500 2v2players in the EU.

Thats 41 DKs in the top 2000 players or a smidgen over 2% of the total. I guess having a week where DK managed to climb from being the least represented class above 2.2k in 2s to being the second lowest represented class and remained the least represented class above that rating in 3s was strong evidence that the class needed a 50% nerf to their 90 second cooldown (which was already going to be facing a sharp decline in effectiveness as soon as other players realised that it is completely countered just by moving away from it) and a 10% nerf to their most used ability.

I mean, the patch did seem to be good to DKs and it was great to see a lot of the old DK streamers actually playing again. Would it have been too much to ask that the nerfs could be held off until the class made it out of the bottom two in at least one bracket?

Sure just nerf it 50%, instead of like 20% and see how it goes, just overnerf dk like always right off the bat with almost no data. Meanwhile DHs: "needs more data".

Who let all these crybabies in?

haha i dodged a bullet. I was about to level my DK. buh

Hahaha that DK nerf is illarious... Blizzard going down the drain

Originally Posted by Kendros

Sure just nerf it 50%, instead of like 20% and see how it goes, just overnerf dk like always right off the bat with almost no data. Meanwhile DHs: "needs more data".

They can't really mess with demon hunters atm, a lot of people have switched to it as their mains. There would be a huge backlash.

To give you and example, I am currently ranked under 500 in the world as a WW with raider.io of 1293, A DH in our guild is 1697 raider.io and ranked over 900 in the world.

There is just a major population out there competing with the best melee class by far besides rogues to see how far they can push keys.

Agree with changes

shaman & dk's found strong.

INSTA NERF NERF NOW NOW NOW.

mages/hunters/rogues/locks left OP for months every xpac.

blii$$failng again

Originally Posted by Hightotemz

They can't really mess with demon hunters atm, a lot of people have switched to it as their mains. There would be a huge backlash.

To give you and example, I am currently ranked under 500 in the world as a WW with raider.io of 1293, A DH in our guild is 1697 raider.io and ranked over 900 in the world.

There is just a major population out there competing with the best melee class by far besides rogues to see how far they can push keys.

if the amount of people playing a class has ANYTHING to do with the balance of the actual class to do you would have seen buffs and reworks done to ret paladins a long long time ago considering that paladins have always been one of the most played classes in WoW. Just look at both competitive PvE and PvP were the actual data shows ret being one of the lowest represented specs in terms of performance and look what that got them in PvP a big fat nerf and while true 8.1 brought in some buffs for PvE its no were near the needed amount to compete with for example DHs in any scenario.

So ye I call bullshit of this argument it is more likely that Blizzard has a "laid" out plan on how both pvp and pve group compositions should look like. Just look at the guy stating the oblivious at least when it comes to rogues in pvp they had over 10% representation at 2.4k+ rating in PvP and the only thing they lost was passive MS debuff from talents in 8.1 no class comes CLOSE to that lvl of representation.

Originally Posted by Sulika

There are currently 9 DKs in the top 500 3v3 players in the US.
There are currently 18 DKs in the top 500 2v2 players in the US.
There are currently 2 DKs in the top 500 3v3 players in the EU.
There are currently 12 DKs in the top 500 2v2players in the EU.

Thats 41 DKs in the top 2000 players or a smidgen over 2% of the total. I guess having a week where DK managed to climb from being the least represented class above 2.2k in 2s to being the second lowest represented class and remained the least represented class above that rating in 3s was strong evidence that the class needed a 50% nerf to their 90 second cooldown (which was already going to be facing a sharp decline in effectiveness as soon as other players realised that it is completely countered just by moving away from it) and a 10% nerf to their most used ability.

I mean, the patch did seem to be good to DKs and it was great to see a lot of the old DK streamers actually playing again. Would it have been too much to ask that the nerfs could be held off until the class made it out of the bottom two in at least one bracket?

Have you even played in the current patch as unholy in 2v2 or 3v3 rated? Unholy is a broken mess and needs to be toned down by a lot.

Quoting numbers from a season based on an entirely different patch means absoltely nothing.

I'm confused. Are the people crying about DKs saying all DKs use an abomination? Are they saying a 1% nerf to the healing absorb of necrotic strike has ruined them?

Looks like Abomination needed a tweak and that's it. I literally cannot comprehend why all the DK tears.

nerf ele shaman one again because ele shaman can't be top1 ... he used to be master of bottom not top

Originally Posted by Morg

Have you even played in the current patch as unholy in 2v2 or 3v3 rated? Unholy is a broken mess and needs to be toned down by a lot.

Quoting numbers from a season based on an entirely different patch means absoltely nothing.

Those are numbers from today. DKs are up about 1% since the patch (from about 1% to about 2% in both brackets). For comparison Monks who were already sitting at a 10.4% representation are up 1.6% to 12% overall in 2s and up 1.7% in 3s to 6.3% overall and they haven't been touched (yet at least).

I'm also not sure what your argument is, either one weeks data is enough to draw a conclusion from in which case the class doesn't seem to be getting a massive spike in representation based on the available data or, as you seem to be suggesting, one week of data isn't enough to draw a conclusion from in which case the nerfs are unjustified since by your own argument there isn't enough data yet.

If you assume a balanced representation at the top levels would see a fairly modest 4-5% of the highest rated characters being DKs then going from 1% to 2% in a week just shows things trending in the right direction. The idea that a class could be somehow overpowered and underrepresented at the same time makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Socialhealer

shaman & dk's found strong.

INSTA NERF NERF NOW NOW NOW.

mages/hunters/rogues/locks left OP for months every xpac.

blii$$failng again

If you find hunters op you must be playing another game .

That nerf to abom looks over the top, 25% dmg AND 25% attack speed?

Originally Posted by Sulika

Those are numbers from today. DKs are up about 1% since the patch (from about 1% to about 2% in both brackets). For comparison Monks who were already sitting at a 10.4% representation are up 1.6% to 12% overall in 2s and up 1.7% in 3s to 6.3% overall and they haven't been touched (yet at least).

I'm also not sure what your argument is, either one weeks data is enough to draw a conclusion from in which case the class doesn't seem to be getting a massive spike in representation based on the available data or, as you seem to be suggesting, one week of data isn't enough to draw a conclusion from in which case the nerfs are unjustified since by your own argument there isn't enough data yet.

If you assume a balanced representation at the top levels would see a fairly modest 4-5% of the highest rated characters being DKs then going from 1% to 2% in a week just shows things trending in the right direction. The idea that a class could be somehow overpowered and underrepresented at the same time makes no sense.

And where are you getting this magical data from that only has this week? The ladders are all based on the season not since 8.1

If you think unholy in its current state is fine then you are hilariously out of touch or very biased towards it

Originally Posted by tyrlaan

I'm confused. Are the people crying about DKs saying all DKs use an abomination? Are they saying a 1% nerf to the healing absorb of necrotic strike has ruined them?

Looks like Abomination needed a tweak and that's it. I literally cannot comprehend why all the DK tears.

Its not about that. Its about the swiftness of the nerf, while others more serious broken classes are left unchecked for months!

Also there is no reasion to nerf necrotic strike at all. 1% does not seem much, but its more about the symbolic offense at dks showing here.

If, the devs do not like dks, they can remove them and give us a proper necromancer hero clothie.


Just saying i switched DH and had a blast so far, why playing around with minor things? Does a dk have high mobility, like double jump? big toolkit? great cc? Is blood presence back? And i rather see the whole package here not just arena who nobody cares to play nowdays, a DK is still no match for me in any open warmode encounter. Before blizz considers to nerf dmg they better improve passive defensives and reduce the active ones that waste talent slots needed for mobility.

Originally Posted by Runstarr

If you find hunters op you must be playing another game .

Dude hunt is so op atm .... survivale is totaly broken ..

Originally Posted by Tyrannica

Its not about that. Its about the swiftness of the nerf, while others more serious broken classes are left unchecked for months!

Also there is no reasion to nerf necrotic strike at all. 1% does not seem much, but its more about the symbolic offense at dks showing here.

If, the devs do not like dks, they can remove them and give us a proper necromancer hero clothie.

So the issue is preceived slights? I'm sure it was done to offend people personally

Originally Posted by tyrlaan

So the issue is preceived slights? I'm sure it was done to offend people personally

I see how you never played a dk a few years ago, a huge nerf list for no reasion was always the norm, no matter how well presented they were in any kind of pvp.

It was done, because of arena alone and thats just 1/3 of the pvp availible with the least traffic, it was too much for some people and the pvp team, that a dead class suddenly became viable and even strong there, thats only allowed for certain arena classes in mind, that are allowed to dominate there and can spam cc.(you know them)

Also playing fixed team setups is not a good way how to judge the power of a class/spec in a mmorpg, balancing like that makes not too much sense and blizz does it for like a decade now, yet they fail to balance the most broken arena comps what is slightly hilarious!

The only thing that keeps arenas alive at the moment are the streamers and their supporters. BGs are bad and warmode is unbalanced trash, yet everyone and their moms participates.
Then, the Uh DK received nerfs in areas, where he was never considered quite too powerful. You can nerf abo, if people have a problem with it, but no compensation for it only shows how lazy that nerfjob was. Its not like, if playing a frost/uh dk you feel like a plate wearer, who moves slow and is unstoppable as the class fantasy suggests.