Read what Paragon said, carefully and some basic resto tips

[Deleted]

You can't compare a world first guild to anything. When I say "bad shamans" I mean the regular joes that play this game and apply a world firsts view to their guild. Just because a highly tuned group attempting a world first find that a resto shaman is a bit underpowered doesn't mean that they aren't fine for everyone else. I am not in the BEST guild ever, but I am ahead of most and resto shamans are FINE if you know how to play them.

Just because a mediocre shaman finds them fine doesn't make them fine. Just saying.

See, I can do it too.

[walexia]

So maybe, just maybe, this will help us out. In the mean time, stop freaking out. Unless you are competing for world firsts your raid spot is likely not jeopardy and your class heals enough for your raids.

your forgetting the point that were 3 pally healers and 2 priests , what was so bad about them not having at least one resto shammy in there? we also have two respectable dps classes ele and enhance yet they decided meh we will just have as many as 4 mages even pallies had as many as two specs represented yet we didnt have even one of our spec/class there!!.

I would love to believe that their shamans are great players and are not undergeared compared to the rest and pull their own weight in raids, why not even one then?

[taymatt]

While I agree with you that this is very concerning, and that shammies are broken, you are very ill-informed if you say this:

Of all bosses in the whole game, there is only one healing race (kinda of) which is that friendly dragon Valithria Dreamwalker at Icecrown - as usual, the resto shaman is a joke there.

Resto shammies were very, very OP on Valithria.

[Hypernetic]

your forgetting the point that were 3 pally healers and 2 priests , what was so bad about them not having at least one resto shammy in there? we also have two respectable dps classes ele and enhance yet they decided meh we will just have as many as 4 mages even pallies had as many as two specs represented yet we didnt have even one of our spec/class there!!.

I would love to believe that their shamans are great players and are not undergeared compared to the rest and pull their own weight in raids, why not even one then?

Because their shamans also have alts that are raid capable? Bring the player AND the class is pretty much the answer to all of your questions.

[Stings]

They of course pick the strongest class that they can. And yes, i think everyone agrees that Shamans PvE-wise should be buffed, because they are rubbish atm. And Paragon, they compete for the World First, then Yes, they will of course take the FOTM classes in large numbers, as there isn't any "PICK TEH PLAYAH" style, as everyone in that guild is a top-tuned Dorrito-Pee-bottle raider.

It's like picking the fat kid for sports, you want to pick the one with the one that keep making goals.

[taymatt]

I stopped reading when you said you outhealed SKILLED paladins on Valithria. If they knew what they were doing, they should have roflstomped you on the meters and then some. Proper use of beacon and positioning of a raidmember (preferably a hunter's tenacity pet) in order to abuse glyph procs are included in that.

I almost never had any healer beat me on Valithria, including very skilled paladins. What you don't realize is that AA double dipped on Valithria for us, and we were constantly getting "free" 90K heals.

---------- Post added 2011-01-21 at 11:57 AM ----------

Because their shamans also have alts that are raid capable? Bring the player AND the class is pretty much the answer to all of your questions.

Dude, read the link to the paragon forums. It has nothing to do with being raid-ready. They literally say that Shaman are "useless" right now, and they only bring resto shammies for the mana tide totem if it's needed.

[Aspyre]

You are either a troll or an idiot.

I vote for a trolling idiot.

[Freshouttajail]

Does it mean that everybody who's bellow shamans on dps meter and healing meter is a total piece of shit?

[Yoshimiko]

your forgetting the point that were 3 pally healers and 2 priests , what was so bad about them not having at least one resto shammy in there? we also have two respectable dps classes ele and enhance yet they decided meh we will just have as many as 4 mages even pallies had as many as two specs represented yet we didnt have even one of our spec/class there!!.

I would love to believe that their shamans are great players and are not undergeared compared to the rest and pull their own weight in raids, why not even one then?

Ele is one of the weakest dps specs around, It's also the weakest pvp spec in the game right now. It has the pressure of a disc priest, with worse mana pools. As far as dps goes, it's about tied with Frost, Arcane, Ret, Arms warriors and Demo locks {single target}. ENH is about 8% over ele, which is still in the bottom 50%. Shamans are the second lowest dps *CLASS*, second to paladins. Ret got completely re-worked though, they should be fine after this patch I'd imagine.

This was fine before. We brought unique buffs that no one else had. We increased the raids damage by so much with totems it was fine to bring shamans. We were clearly behind the curve in the end of wrath, but our buffs, and especially blust, made up for it. Now our damage is still just as far behind- but we don't have anything to bring in place. Every single damage increasing buff we have is brought by someone who does more dps than us. Why would you ever bring ele or enh?

And people saying ele is fine in pvp, That's a joke. It's hands down the weakest pvp spec in the game now. We're not the only class who needs help though, but we're in the most dire of straights I think.

[Hypernetic]

I almost never had any healer beat me on Valithria, including very skilled paladins. What you don't realize is that AA double dipped on Valithria for us, and we were constantly getting "free" 90K heals.

---------- Post added 2011-01-21 at 11:57 AM ----------



Dude, read the link to the paragon forums. It has nothing to do with being raid-ready. They literally say that Shaman are "useless" right now, and they only bring resto shammies for the mana tide totem if it's needed.

Yeah, no shit. That's pretty much what I said reworded. They aren't bringing fresh 85s in greens in place of shamans they all have an "official alt" that they raid with in alt raids, they bring those.

Shaman being useless to paragon does not equal shaman being useless to everyone. Min/maxing to the degree paragon does in your average guild will give little benefit as the players are simply not as skilled.

[Murderdoll]

I stopped reading when you said you aren't bothering with totems.. wth?
But that's funny since the shaman in our group is doing absolutely fine, outhealing everyone except our really geared paladin.
Maybe you need to stop blaming Blizzard's balancing "issues" and look at yourself.

Well thats the interesting thing about totems at the moment. In 25 man raids, you could EASILY get away with only dropping your Searing Totem (or which ever fire totem you choose to use). AFAIK, all the other buff totems are represented by another class, multiple classes which makes them moot. Sure you can still drop your utility totems but that really isnt practical. We are at the distinct disadvantage of having our totems on a short leash unless talented for on a short timer. Even in 10 man I am sometimes struggling to find a set of totems to use. Totems are dead.

277 holy pally losing to someones 264 alt would make them bad

And shaman will get better with gear, it always happens like that

Thats not always the case I am afraid. Enhance tends to scale very poorly with gear, more specifically, our spells scale horribly with gear.


With Holy Pallies and Priests getting minor nerfs and Shamans getting a fair few buffs in the next patch it will be interesting where Resto stands.

[Poodles]

Yeah, no shit. That's pretty much what I said reworded. They aren't bringing fresh 85s in greens in place of shamans they all have an "official alt" that they raid with in alt raids, they bring those.

Shaman being useless to paragon does not equal shaman being useless to everyone. Min/maxing to the degree paragon does in your average guild will give little benefit as the players are simply not as skilled.

To all the people saying the same thing, it's like saying a faster and better car won't make a faster and better driver. Sure, it won't have as much effect because of the skill issues, but it's still a HEAD START.

Oh, and if you're a pally and losing on healing on dreamwalker, you're bad (Lay on Hands + tons of stacks = GG) Not to mention beacon before 4.0...

[Sharaki]

Some people are pointting out that situation would be different for "average joe guilds". I doubt it. If class x is significally stronger than class z, given same player level then: class x > class y @ highlevel, class x > classy @ average level. If you have to choose from 2 bad players, pick the class that have the edge, if the player fails even more than other he still maintains same level as his competitor. Resto is in decent shape but lacks aoe healing when people are scattered, nothing new, but many encounters favor for it giving edge to priests. Same thing for burstaoehealing. If you have to choose from 2 bad players.. rather take better class (woah, its the same thing than when picking from 2 extremely good players).

Dps specs... for enha, when fights favor ranged dps, you rather pick those rogues and dk's who top the meters by class. Ele is totally fuckd up in fights with loads of movement. Note that skill plays huge factor here, in highend guild that penalty is reduced much more than in average guild where they suffer way more from the same fights.

http://stateofdps.com/
http://www.mmo-champion.com/newreply...ply&p=10178191 not much changed..

So in the end, with my bag of salt gathered already, when top end guild benches certain classes it means something.

[Jeslis]

Heyas - sorry if this is the wrong section for this - Something on the first page made me think of a question --

RE: Telluric Currents (lit bolt restores 40% of dmg done) .. I see alot of praise for this, but how does this work in a boss fight where the caster hitcap is 17%? -- One shaman mentioned nef P2.. which is a little more understandable as your casting on level 85 mobs (6%? cap) but how does this talent stack up on other boss fights where you dont have that option -- say Atramedes, Chimeron, Omnitron, Halfus, Val+Ther, Ascendant council, etc...

[Hypernetic]

To all the people saying the same thing, it's like saying a faster and better car won't make a faster and better driver. Sure, it won't have as much effect because of the skill issues, but it's still a HEAD START.

Oh, and if you're a pally and losing on healing on dreamwalker, you're bad (Lay on Hands + tons of stacks = GG) Not to mention beacon before 4.0...

That analogy with the car is horrible, especially if you know anything about racing.

Shamans were very strong on VDW. Our 2pc was a large reason behind that. Who even cares about Dreamwalker anyway, it has nothing to do with anything now or then. It was a gimmick fight that favored shamans because of how much haste we were stacking coupled with our 2pc set bonus, tidal waves, and AA.

[scvd]

www.stateofdps.com

Shaman dps isn't that bad ( fact ), quit trying to make it out like they're the worst.

[Poodles]

I know quite a lot about racing (since you don't know me). An epic driver can make a crapmobile go faster than a terrible driver in a faster car, but if the difference is even wider, there's no way the crapmobile will win.

Also, if you're raiding, you better know your class, so skill being equal, shammies are underpowered right now compared to other classes. I main spec holy pally and have a shammy alt that was a second main. I benched the shammy once cata came out because the differences were absurd.

I like my shammy, but just like my ret off-spec on my pally, I know he's underpowered and it's frustrating to play.

[Deleted]

Shamans are a bit underpowered atm when it comes to healing, however, I think most people look too much at the numbers lately...

However I'd rather get a shaman with half healing that keeps people up than a paladin or priest that spams heals and still lets people die bc he/she is incapable and doesn't know when or whom to heal when it's necessary. What I'm trying to say is, people look too much at the numbers, while those with lower numbers (hps/dps) might actually be a better player than those with higher ones (hps/dps).

[ohlins]

Not to troll, but my friends and I knew that Shamans would be massively under powered in Cata. In all seriousness, the only time we've used a shaman since 4.0 was when our mage needed a piece of gear on her Shaman, so switched characters.
Shamans have always sucked, and aside from lava-burst in low-resil PvP, have been at the bottom of each niche (raid-heals, ranged-dps, melee-dps) for as long as I can remember. Obviously I'm not discounting awesome players, but I swear, I only ever brought a shaman when we needed heroism. Now that our pure-dps mage can Timewarp without any sacrifice to his dps, shamans can re-roll or stop whispering me for an invite to my run. In all of wrath, the highest dps I saw a shaman do was 23k on Holdir, pre-ICC.
Until shamans are fixed, there is no point in me wasting a spot for an underpowered dps when I could just bring a Hunter or Ret Paladin.

You started during wotlk i assume?

[Valizix]

Unless you're in a world first type guild stop worrying about what they're posting about shamans being underpowered. Chances are what you and your guildmates are doing and are capable of doing shamans are just fine. Come back and complain when you don't use any shamans on your heroic Lady Sin fight.