Swedish government upholds forced sterilisation for transgender people

[Deleted]

Well they do suck sometimes.

Obviously there are things that needs fixing, but they aren't ruining our country or anything. I'd rather have our politicians than those in the US or Russia.

With your logic, transsexuals in fact have no gender at all.

Firstly, never said that. Secondly, it's a matter of definition. In my eyes, if someone says he is a woman, then he is one. Yes, that includes if said woman has a dick. As long as they feel like another gender on the inside, then they are.

[rickOz]

Amen to that.

I'm just posting in this thread because your avatar is amazing. And that show is awesome.

[Gheld]

If a Transman gets pregnant though (as difficult as it is to do accidentally) isn't there severe health risks to the unborn child due to HRT and surgical alterations? And ensuring a safe pregnancy would require extensive invasive medicine which would not only be expensive to tax-payers but in and of itself risky to the unborn child? As well as the risk to the parent since obviously birth has to be done via cesarean.

So to be honest, unless I'm wrong about the risks I mentioned I would be supportive of the law.

Except I don't see how such a risk exists for a transwoman.

I also only support public funding for sexual reassignment surgery where due to an accident, or birth defect, (i.e. PHYSICAL circumstances beyond ones control) somebodies gender features are damaged or rendered ambiguous.

[Yavannie]

And with your only people who are fertile have a gender.

Urm... How exactly did you derive that? That would rather be if you took what Tomatketchup said even further.

I'm generally thinking the definitions of "male", "female" and "parent" need to be a bit looser.

[Aalyy]

Clearly this is a violation of human rights. But I can't help but wonder why a transgender person would want to reproduce. I can see adopting, I don't think the desire to love and care for children would go away but if a woman doesn't feel like woman and undergoes the transformation to become a man, wouldn't having a baby, the ultimate evolutionary "job" for a woman, be sort of counter intuitive?

[Deleted]

This is probably to cater the muslim immigrants who would find transgender people discriminating. Raping people in groups is okay, as long as homosexuals and transgender people is punished.

<Infracted>

[MasterHamster]

Funny, this law has been in effect for ages, and now people get to hear of it.
And of course have a veeery educated opinion about it.

[Deleted]

This is probably to cater the muslim immigrants who would find transgender people discriminating. Raping people in groups is okay, as long as homosexuals and transgender people is punished.

Is it racist of me to say that i don't particularly like the way Muslims live their lives or the religion they follow?

[Elohel]

Is it racist of me to say that i don't particularly like the way Muslims live their lives or the religion they follow?

No, because muslim is not a race, it's a religion. I'd steer clear of religion on this forum, though.

[Melanieshaman]

Wait.... let me see if I understand it right.

Transgender people currently need to be sterilized before they can officially call themselves the opposite sex?

A man is not supposed to have a vagina or ovaries. If 'he' does, 'he' is not a man.
A woman is not supposed to have a penis or testicles. If 'she' does, 'she' is not a woman.

If you want to become either of those, you need to get them removed, hence you're sterilized anyway.

I don't see a problem.




... unless of course you want to be a woman with balls, in which case there's something really wrong with you. Fine if you want to be a woman, but at least make sure you make yourself _all_ woman, instead of a half-gender abomination.

Surgery isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination. Many insurance companies do not cover it. I have seen the range being 8-10k in Thailand (but you still have to pay for your flight, and hotel once released, because you can't fly 5 days after that kind of surgery, to upwards of 20-25k for Marcy Bowers the worlds leading surgeon here in the states.

On the flip side, after being on hrt for over 2 years, i AM basically sterile. everything except my birth certificate has a F on it now. (got to have a surgeons letter for that last one).

[Deleted]

This is probably to cater the muslim immigrants who would find transgender people discriminating. Raping people in groups is okay, as long as homosexuals and transgender people is punished.

Seriously?

I just get so pissed at statements like this. Just... wow, stop it. Please. Muslims? Are you serious? This is so that men can't get pregnant and women can't father children, it's nothing to do with sterilizing people just like that! And whatsup with the stereotypes? Why does every bloody person insist on saying that every single muslim gets to rape in groups. And hey, what other rights have we taken from the gays and the transsexuals anyway? No, we haven't. We haven't removed their rights so that muslims feels more comfortable in our country.

I'm sorry, but posts like this just makes me mad. Using stereotypes to make a group look bad in a situation where they aren't even mentioned is just low.

EDIT: How funny that I hit 700 post counts with a rage post.

[Catta]

Every country has a ruling elite.

Every ruling elite will influence media outlets through national legislation.


That is fact.

so the ruling elite in Sweden is?

[skrump]

I don't agree with forced sterilization unless done on rapists.

I do however support forced abortions in any case where the parents are not mentally or financially fit to raise a child in a safe environment, the procedure of course Should be fully funded by the taxpayers.

In America it would mean that any women receiving financial aid from the government would be required to have any potential offspring aborted simply because it is in the best interest of everybody involved including the taxpayers who don't want to pay for your welfare for the next 18-21 years

For the record I don't find transgenders as a group mentally unfit to raise children. even though they will surly get picked on by other kids for having parents that are considered different.

[Deleted]

so the ruling elite in Sweden is?

Killinggänget obviously.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Um...I'm a Swede, and I'm not surprised. Sweden's government seems to want the rest of the world to think that we're this little country with beautiful, peace loving people that care about human rights and animal rights way more than any other country in the world.

It will be flunked though, this has the ordinary people protesting. It's getting media attention now and it'll be removed I'm sure, the government wouldn't want to look bad...

And to everyone bringing up doing this to rapists...you are aware that rape can be anything but sexual, right? A rapist will find a way to hurt a woman/child in any way if they get a chance. Not to mention that castrating and such does NOT make the private parts useless for that sort of thing.


---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 11:44 PM ----------

Is it racist of me to say that i don't particularly like the way Muslims live their lives or the religion they follow?

Well no, they're part of a religion and not a specific "race". However, he din't spout his ignorance in a very clean way .

[Deleted]

Um...I'm a Swede, and I'm not surprised. Sweden's government seems to want the rest of the world to think that we're this little country with beautiful, peace loving people that care about human rights and animal rights way more than any other country in the world.

It will be flunked though, this has the ordinary people protesting. It's getting media attention now and it'll be removed I'm sure, the government wouldn't want to look bad...

I'm confused by your statement. Removed? What? The government really doesn't have that much control over the media to cover stuff like this up.

[Catta]

Um...I'm a Swede, and I'm not surprised. Sweden's government seems to want the rest of the world to think that we're this little country with beautiful, peace loving people that care about human rights and animal rights way more than any other country in the world.

It will be flunked though, this has the ordinary people protesting. It's getting media attention now and it'll be removed I'm sure, the government wouldn't want to look bad...

And to everyone bringing up doing this to rapists...you are aware that rape can be anything but sexual, right? A rapist will find a way to hurt a woman/child in any way if they get a chance. Not to mention that castrating and such does NOT make the private parts useless for that sort of thing.


---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 11:44 PM ----------



Well no, they're part of a religion and not a specific "race". However, he din't spout his ignorance in a very clean way .

if not by sterilization then how should they know when they were the other gender...? By the person's own whim? By looks?

---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 12:10 AM ----------

I don't agree with forced sterilization unless done on rapists.

I do however support forced abortions in any case where the parents are not mentally or financially fit to raise a child in a safe environment, the procedure of course Should be fully funded by the taxpayers.

In America it would mean that any women receiving financial aid from the government would be required to have any potential offspring aborted simply because it is in the best interest of everybody involved including the taxpayers who don't want to pay for your welfare for the next 18-21 years

For the record I don't find transgenders as a group mentally unfit to raise children. even though they will surly get picked on by other kids for having parents that are considered different.

and what you are suggesting will sure cause a lot of deaths of women too scared to visit the hospital because they are on welfare

[AssaultDrone]

It's not just as simple as "caring what a piece of paper says". Imagine your life if you were not legally recognized as the gender you are, from doing your taxes, to medical things, to something as simple as filling out a job application...anything that is gender specific. The problems you would face on a regular basis would be quite annoying and embarrassing. If you wanted to live life as a woman, imagine trying to apply for jobs looking like a female yet having to tell them you are a male named Robert. Not being legally the gender you are would be a mental hell for anyone.

The case could be made that you are recognized as the gender that you are, but that you are choosing to call yourself a gender that you really aren't.

[Melanieshaman]

if not by sterilization then how should they know when they were the other gender...? By the person's own whim? By looks?

I'm not sure i understand what you're asking. For a trans person to KNOW they are trans the government should tell them by sterilizing them? That's ridiculous! I knew i was trans at 5 years of age. Nearly every trans person i have known or seen interviewed knew at a young age, if you're speaking legally? Once someone has been through all the steps of the Harry Benjamin standards of care ( hrt, therapy, RLE, etc) that should be enough for for the government. Also as i said above, after 2 years on HRT i AM sterile, I don't need anyone telling me i am what i already know i am.

[AssaultDrone]

To the content, if you have a surgically created vagina, are you now a woman? If you have a false dick and balls, does that make you automatically a man? By your definition, it's a fluid transition to jump between being the male and female sex.

If you have a surgically created vagina, can you have a baby grow inside of you? If you can, you're female. If not, you're still male.

---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 11:15 PM ----------

Why does every thing has to be Human Rights? What they are doing is wrong, but doubt its against human rights. Who decides what is human rights by the way?

Politicians and activists with too much time on their hands.