Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[Borzo]

How in the hell do you think he knew police were 120 seconds away?

Oh... so maybe he thought they were 300 seconds away instead? What difference does it make? You do not get out of your car and begin a high-risk solo confrontation before backup arrives. Was there any urgency for him to get out solo... like... did he have to risk his life to save someone else's? Oh right... no he didn't. He should have waited for backup then.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 06:33 PM ----------

To avoid that very issue, I quote everything to which I reply. If I've responded to something, there was a quote in my post to go with it.

Okay, now I'm convinced that I'm being mindfucked. If you say so, I will PM you your posts - and quotes - which clearly show that you are responding to posts that I never made, and claiming that I said things that I never said.

As has been said elsewhere: irrelevant. That he got out of his car is not cause for an altercation.

Okay, mindfuck confirmed.

I said that a person with appropriate training and experience - you know, like a police officer - would not have gotten out of his car by himself to confront this kid.

I did NOT say that this was a cause for an altercation. You even quoted me!

If he had appropriate training and experience, he wouldn't have gotten out of his car.

Please, if you are on drugs, or high, stop responding to my posts. Clearly it's too much for you.

[Droids]

So the sequence of events is. Zimmerman approaches Martin, says "Excuse me" and Martin jumps him? Or do we not know if Zimmerman provoked him, because we only have one side of the story. Stop being so quick to defend the guy that unnecessarily escalated the situation, because we actually don't know the sequence of events that took place.

To me honestly it doesn't matter who provoked who.

This is what probably occurred, keep in mind this is my speculation.

Zimm: "What are you doing in this neighborhood."

Tray: "None of your business."

Zimm: "I am the neighborhood watch person, and you need to leave."

Tray: "Don't tell me what to."

Zimm: "I am telling you what to do, now get the hell out of here."

Tray: "Man, fuck you."

Zimm: "No, fuck you."

Tray starts attacking Zimmerman. Tray is on top of Zimmerman hitting him, bashing his head into the ground. Zimmerman is calling out for help for close to a minute while Trayvon is horrifically bashing his head in. Zimmerman decides to defend himself with his firearm, he does so, and fires one bullet which kills Trayvon.

In my speculation, I don't find Zimmerman doing anything wrong or illegal.

[senshu]

No. Martin was walking home. Zimmerman was patrolling the neighborhood looking for suspicious people. Let's take race and everything else out of this for a moment. He sees a guy, calls the police, tells them what he sees. That's where this story should end. From there, it is the responsibility of the proper authorities to investigate. Zimmerman involved himself much more than is necessary. I'll grant that the race thing is probably overblown. But you have to acknowledge that this guy went way beyond what his job entails.

edit again: @Droids. As I said before, just because you have the right, doesn't make it a good idea. Judging people based on race usually doesn't get you anywhere useful, but if that makes you happy go ahead. If he didn't want to confront the suspicious character, why tail him? He was being overzealous.

If Martin has just been walking home then none of this probably would have happened. Instead he was outside talking to his girlfriend, wandering aimlessly around near people's homes, while wearing a hoodie (which does look suspicious, sorry) and in the rain (which made the loitering seem very odd). This combination of circumstances does conspire to present a suspicious image, yes. Should Zimmerman have just called the cops and left it at that? Yes. Was he within his rights to follow and question this young man, no matter how ill advised? Yes? Does that call for him to be attacked, if Martin did in fact start the fight? No. And if Martin did attack Zimmerman and not vice versa, was his defense with a gun justified? Probably. That will be for the courts to decide.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 06:40 PM ----------

Okay, now I'm convinced that I'm being mindfucked. If you say so, I will PM you your posts - and quotes - which clearly show that you are responding to posts that I never made, and claiming that I said things that I never said.

Go right ahead.

Okay, mindfuck confirmed.

I said that a person with appropriate training and experience - you know, like a police officer - would not have gotten out of his car by himself to confront this kid.

I did NOT say that this was a cause for an altercation. You even quoted me!



Please, if you are on drugs, or high, stop responding to my posts. Clearly it's too much for you.

It's apparent that you can't follow a narrative in any form, and individual replies are beyond what you're able to process. One wonders why you frequent a forum at all. You say that with proper training, he wouldn't have gotten out of his car, I say it's irrelevant and does not justify an attack in any event. Get it?

[Borzo]

You're wasting your time, he's reading only what he wants to read. Refusing to be proved wrong in his own mind. Just ignore it, he will go away.

Read 10 articles so far... still can't find proof of what your saying. Still looking though. If you're not gonna provide me a link... than I'll assume that you are bullshiting until shown otherwise.

[KingHorse]

What does this have to do with anything? Why are you selectively attacking his reputation?

According to his teacher he was “an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.” What do you think is a better judge of character? A few out of context things a 17 year old said in the internet or someone who knew him personally?

Pointing out quotes from a teacher is selectively bolstering Martin's reputation.
Pointing out that he has called 911 many times is selectively attacking Zimmerman's reputation. Did you know it's illegal to make false calls to 911? That they will jail you for doing so? Was Zimmerman ever convicted of anything for those calls to 911? Or are you just like the rest of this thread, looking to push the case in the direction you believe, regardless of the lack of information we all have?

[Borzo]

I'm saying you don't know, why take the chance?

Should it be legal to shoot someone to death in self-defence just because you think they're gonna punch you? Serious question.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 06:43 PM ----------

If Trayvon didn't jump Zimmerman, overpower Zimmerman to the ground, and slam Zimmerman's head into the concrete, while Zimmerman was crying out for help for a long time and no help came, then Trayvon wouldn't be dead.

Is this one of those "facts" that I've heard people in this thread talk about?

[cFortyfive]

Quite impressing the number of people here rubbing the crystal ball.

[Isotope]

No. Martin was walking home. Zimmerman was patrolling the neighborhood looking for suspicious people. Let's take race and everything else out of this for a moment. He sees a guy, calls the police, tells them what he sees. That's where this story should end. From there, it is the responsibility of the proper authorities to investigate. Zimmerman involved himself much more than is necessary. I'll grant that the race thing is probably overblown. But you have to acknowledge that this guy went way beyond what his job entails.

Please read the accounts of the night before you make claims that aren't true.

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Treyvon. So the fact that he was a member of neighbor hood watch or however people want to classify him doesn't matter.

[sexualchocolate]

if you feel someone is doing something suspect you call the cops and let them handle it otherwise you end up in a retarded situation like this. The guy who shot the kid should be held responsible just for that reason, neighborhood watch does not = police "This guy looks like he is up to no good. He is on drugs or something," who is he to make that call ? The min he ignored the dispatcher and followed that kid he lost all claims of self defense he just wanted to play cops and robbers at that point and should be held responsible he put himself in that situation.

[whyusocrazy]

Should it be legal to shoot someone to death in self-defence just because you think they're gonna punch you? Serious question.[COLOR="red"]

No, if they have already punched you and you think they are going to punch you again, yes. I know you agree so why the question.

[buck008]

If Martin has just been walking home then none of this probably would have happened. Instead he was outside talking to his girlfriend, wandering aimlessly around near people's homes, while wearing a hoodie (which does look suspicious, sorry) and in the rain (which made the loitering seem very odd). This combination of circumstances does conspire to present a suspicious image, yes. Should Zimmerman have just called the cops and left it at that? Yes. Was he within his rights to follow and question this young man, no matter how ill advised? Yes? Does that call for him to be attacked, if Martin did in fact start the fight? No. And if Martin did attack Zimmerman and not vice versa, was his defense with a gun justified? Probably. That will be for the courts to decide.

That's basically what I've been saying. I get really pissed at the racial implications of things, because I've experienced it first hand. I admit this freely. If it turns out that Martin did attack the guy, I still think the whole altercation should never have happened. That's the aggravating part, for me. Maybe the kid was an asshole, maybe he was a saint. Plenty of people start one way and end up the other. This kid, we'll never know.

[Paranoid Android]

If Trayvon didn't jump Zimmerman, overpower Zimmerman to the ground, and slam Zimmerman's head into the concrete, while Zimmerman was crying out for help for a long time and no help came, then Trayvon wouldn't be dead.

Stop placing the blame on Zimmerman, and place the blame on the person who started assaulting someone.

Wow! Again you and many others are taking Zimmerman's word for gold. Yes witnesses heard Zimmerman cry for help. Who started it? Which brings me back to the point most of you can't get through your thick head. First off Martin was not doing ANYTHING!! He was wakling throught a neighborhood wearing a hoodie. My other point which you have vigilante people who btw carrying guns. I dont care if its our right or not, very frikin dangerous when people with not training arm themselves and go out on "neighborhood watches. My last point is he pursued him in some fashion. Guess what no one knows what happened after that unless you take Zimmerman's word as gold. He should not have pursued well because again he didnt do anything and common sense is let the police do their job. He is a total vigilante because he knew he had a gun as a backup and if whatever happened he could use his weapon.

The last but sad part is this moronic Florida Law which is so ambigiious just like the Martin/Zimmerman case where now everyone is trying to say what did and did not happen. Again get in fight I shoot other person, claim self defense. Also I hear alot comments of read his tweets, he is a thug, suspended for marijuana. All irrelevant. No history of crime or violent crime. Just some teenage kid acting out. Suburban kids too tweet stupid crap, act like they are gangster and smoke weed.

[Borzo]

Could have should have, it doesn't fucking matter. If the kid did in fact assault Zimmerman then something bad was bound to come his way.

Sure it matters. Zimmerman could have avoided Martins death, but through negligent, naive, and irresponsible actions on the part of Zimmerman, the kid is now dead.

This fact doesn't make Zimmerman legally responsible or liable... but it still matters. Because the kid is dead. In addition a million people are ready to have Zimmerman hanged, drawn and quartered. And millions of tax dollars will slowly start to get flushed down the drain for who knows how long.

All this could have been avoided if he just didn't get out of his car just like the dispatcher said. If he had proper training (eg police training, official neighbourhood watch training), then he would have known not get out of the car. If he had any common sense and even a tiny bit of skill in basic "risk-assessment", he wouldn't have gotten out of the car.

But because Zimmerman was effectively an idiot, a kid is dead, and Zimmerman is now on the run.

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that this situation could have happened in a different, better way.

[Isuckatpvp]

No, if they have already punched you and you think they are going to punch you again, yes. I know you agree so why the question.

So, random stranger with a gun approaches me with a hostile attitude questioning me about why I'm in the area that I'm perfectly allowed to be in, I can't defend myself.

However, if I have a gun, confront someone who I think is suspicious after I've called the police, and then kill him after he punches me, that's ok.

Glad I understand.

[malbojia]

The facts are that if Zimmerman had listened to law enforcement and stayed in his vehicle, none of this would have happened.

The facts are that Zimmerman has a history of criminal behaviour, and borderline paranoia.

The facts are that getting suspended from school, and wearing a hoodie doesn't give someone the license to pursue and kill you.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 02:37 PM ----------



If you believe Zimmerman, who outweighed Trayvon by over 100 lbs, was 11 years his senior, and had police training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWxlZ52O0rI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-sF4oKLk-k

Size doesn't always matter...

[buck008]

Please read the accounts of the night before you make claims that aren't true.

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Treyvon. So the fact that he was a member of neighbor hood watch or however people want to classify him doesn't matter.

It also doesn't matter what he was doing. Zimmerman could have been on his way to give a kidney to his cancer striken nephew, while giving alms to the poor, curing AIDS, and developing a green fuel that will never run dry. He should have called the cops, and let them handle it.

[tj119]

Sure it matters. Zimmerman could have avoided Martins death, but through negligent, naive, and irresponsible actions on the part of Zimmerman, the kid is now dead.

This fact doesn't make Zimmerman legally responsible or liable... but it still matters. Because the kid is dead. In addition a million people are ready to have Zimmerman hanged, drawn and quartered. And millions of tax dollars will slowly start to get flushed down the drain for who knows how long.

All this could have been avoided if he just didn't get out of his car just like the dispatcher said. If he had proper training (eg police training, official neighbourhood watch training), then he would have known not get out of the car. If he had any common sense and even a tiny bit of skill in basic "risk-assessment", he wouldn't have gotten out of the car.

But because Zimmerman was effectively an idiot, a kid is dead, and Zimmerman is now on the run.

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that this situation could have happened in a different, better way.

Once again, what COULD HAVE happened doesn't mean any more than the pile of dog shit laying in my back yard. You know why? Because guess what! That's not how it happened.

All that matter is trying to use and find the best evidence they have to figure out whether or not this man deserves to be in prison or not. It's a real shame the kid died, oh well, but that's long over with.

[Deonto]

To me honestly it doesn't matter who provoked who.

This is what probably occurred, keep in mind this is my speculation.

Zimm: "What are you doing in this neighborhood."

Tray: "None of your business."

Zimm: "I am the neighborhood watch person, and you need to leave."

Tray: "Don't tell me what to."

Zimm: "I am telling you what to do, now get the hell out of here."

Tray: "Man, fuck you."

Zimm: "No, fuck you."

Tray starts attacking Zimmerman. Tray is on top of Zimmerman hitting him, bashing his head into the ground. Zimmerman is calling out for help for close to a minute while Trayvon is horrifically bashing his head in. Zimmerman decides to defend himself with his firearm, he does so, and fires one bullet which kills Trayvon.

In my speculation, I don't find Zimmerman doing anything wrong or illegal.

God you are stupid. Like, I don't know how to reply to your post with out some hint of anger towards you. You're just stupid.

People who want to, or wish to to discus this topic should be objective and look at everything. Instead you're just defend this guy blindly(yes, it is blind) with out taking the other side of the topic into discussion at all. Or at least what I've seen from your recent posts.

I mean, what if it actually went down like this:

Zimm: "Get the fuck out of here"

Tray: "Leave me alone, I'm just heading home"

Zimm: "Leave, now(pushes Tray)"

And then the fight breaks out. What if it happened that way? You don't know, the other side of the story is dead. Idiot. Speculations are stupid.

And another thing, what the hell. People saying he was getting his head bashed in for a minute? What the fuck, a minute is a long time. How long can you survive getting your head bashed on concrete. The answer: Not long. Obviously waay over exaggerate. He didn't even need medical care. So stupid to try and defend him with saying that. Only an idiot would believe that.

<Infracted>

[Paranoid Android]

if you feel someone is doing something suspect you call the cops and let them handle it otherwise you end up in a retarded situation like this. The guy who shot the kid should be held responsible just for that reason, neighborhood watch does not = police "This guy looks like he is up to no good. He is on drugs or something," who is he to make that call ? The min he ignored the dispatcher and followed that kid he lost all claims of self defense he just wanted to play cops and robbers at that point and should be held responsible he put himself in that situation.

Super well put. He was a vigilante. Doing a none organized neighborhood watch and out their knowing he had a gun as a backup. If I was every neighborhood watch and saw someone commiting a crime, guess what? I would probably assume that the person could turn violent and why the heck would I want to pursue or confront that person. They saying "material things can always be replace, a life you cannot". I'm not going to risk my life for say a car stereo.

Last good point as minute as he pursued martin he lost his claim to self defense. People who want to say Zimmerman was getting beat down do not know what happened before that. Zimmerman's word vs a dead person. Maybe Zimmerman was getting his butt whooped or jumped? Again if he would have just called police and that was it never would have happened.

[senshu]

That's basically what I've been saying. I get really pissed at the racial implications of things, because I've experienced it first hand. I admit this freely.

Conversely, I'm pretty pissed that this was made out to be a racial hate crime, despite no evidence to support it other than the victim being black and the shooter being white...oops, Hispanic. Er, I mean white Hispanic. Meanwhile plenty of other crimes are going on that involve a different race combination and are apparently not worth even noting.