Expertise as Blood

[skmage]

Im seeing a lot of Blood DK's stacking Expertise now. Other than Mastery should I be reforging Expertise too? If so why and how much?

[Triggered Fridgekin]

A raider can chime in on this but from my understanding as using Blood as my daily grinding spec, having your specials hit with the new Vengeance model is devastating especially with fights where you can cleave. The budget on secondary stats may also be a reason...

I'm sure there is more to it than that though...

[Ikrekot]

2550 exp and hit cap.

First:
They may use caps for dps increase

Second:
Blizz told before that DS shouldn't heal and give absorb shield when you miss or mob dodge/parry your attack. Now it don't working and DS heal always, some ppl ask about it blizz if it's bug but they don't give any respond

[Shiira]

When a boss hits you twice in a row and the next hit will kill you the last thing you want is a death strike dodge.

[Murdos]

I've tested this multiple times, and Death Strike still shields and heals after a miss. There was a brief period after 5.0.4. Launched that it did not, but it appears to have been hotfixed because they realized that none of the other tanks 'Mitigation' buttons can 'miss'. You can't miss with shield block, you can't miss with Shield of the Righteous's application (even if the attack itself whiffs, the buff applies to you) and Bears can't 'miss' with Frenzied Regen or Savage Defense.

So we got the same. Death Strike may not always deal damage, but it always heal/shields.

Now, a little hit and expertise is good because it allows you to land more Heart/Rune strikes and Death Strike damage, which increases your runic power and rune regen rates... but only a little, because the new Scent of Blood also cranks up your RP generation so fast that you'll almost never be without a Rune Strike when you need one.

I've basically ignored hit and expertise in my blood set, got to 130% mastery again and I'm fairly invulnerable. /shrug

[Narshe]

When a boss hits you twice in a row and the next hit will kill you the last thing you want is a death strike dodge.

Doesn't matter if it misses you still get a heal and an absorb.

[Kaosbringer]

Honestlly this could just be a result of the diminishing returns on Dodge being insane, with many People reforging out of dodge instead of threat stats (hit/exp).

I notice this a lot with my dk since a good portion of my gear had some exp or hit on it, but i want to keep the more ideal dodge to parry ratio (something like 1:2.5 last time i checked).

[Shiira]

Doesn't matter if it misses you still get a heal and an absorb.

I thought this was removed in the mists pre patch, am I wrong?

[Soisoisoi]

I thought this was removed in the mists pre patch, am I wrong?

You are wrong. It was supposed to be removed, but it wasn't. It still heals and shields you.

[Shiira]

You are wrong. It was supposed to be removed, but it wasn't. It still heals and shields you.

Fair enough.

I guess it's just for the dps then.

[ZehGeek]

Fair enough.

I guess it's just for the dps then.

Still sketch about if it is ment to be or not.

[Snapss]

Being Hit and Expertised cap is still better than putting those stats towards avoidance. With the new Vengeance tank model, we're seeing tanks at the top of the DPS meter on many fights, and that DPS is especially helpful for DPS race fights like Gara'jal and Elegon.

[Deleted]

Being Hit and Expertised cap is still better than putting those stats towards avoidance. With the new Vengeance tank model, we're seeing tanks at the top of the DPS meter on many fights, and that DPS is especially helpful for DPS race fights like Gara'jal and Elegon.

This! First raid this week i focused on mastery ... but after i looked up some WOL-Logs I changed to hit/expertise cap ... blood dps is just insane ... I was second overall @*elegon ... so it makes the encounter easier if you have a tank in group which can compete with normal DPS

[falagar112]

This! First raid this week i focused on mastery ... but after i looked up some WOL-Logs I changed to hit/expertise cap ... blood dps is just insane ... I was second overall @*elegon ... so it makes the encounter easier if you have a tank in group which can compete with normal DPS

All you people thinking that expertise and hitcap are just a dps increase, take into account the following:

Hit and expertise cap means:
1. More DPS
2. More Scent of Blood -> missed auto attacks do NOT generate any charges, so hit and exp indirectly increase healing/absorbs done by death strike, also more RP->more dps->more rune strikes->more RE procs->more healing from death strikes!
3. More quality of life. Outbreak won't miss anymore, etc.
The combination of these 3 reasons is why you want to be hit and expertise capped. It's far more valuable then getting some more dodge/parry, especially as hit and exp are "cheap" to cap, itembudget wise, they don't require as much points per 1% than dodge and parry do.

However you should NEVER reforge out of mastery to get those caps, mastery was and is still our best "avoidance" stat, and smoothens out spiky damage. So if you can get hit and exp cap by reforging just out of dodge and parry, do so!
But don't go out of the way and blindly reforge anything!

As a general note: Enough HP to survive>Mastery>Hit&Exp cap>Parry>Dodge

[Figoment]

As a general note: Enough HP to survive>Mastery>Hit&Exp cap>Parry>Dodge

Aren't parry and dodge still equal in value or did I miss something.

[falagar112]

Aren't parry and dodge still equal in value or did I miss something.

You missed something.
For exact maths have a look at EJ/similar sites but atm you want roughly 3x more parry rating than dodge.

[Sevarin]

tank dps matters now, basically sums up wanting expertise and hit.

[Deleted]

tank dps matters now, basically sums up wanting expertise and hit.

it has always mattered - and usally only on 1-2 fights per tier for example ultraxion the tanks needed to do insain damage and most were hit / expertise capped and using dps trinkets / gear. but most often thier dps isnt needed that much and going for max survivbility is more important.

basicaly nothing has changed for dks from cata to mop in terms of reforging (cept the dodge parry DR shit)

[Rhaktor]

I use both hit and exp(dodge) caps on my DK tank, for a few reasons.

Firstly, my DPS matters. As most of you know currently tank dps is not exactly balanced and maxing my accuracy makes hitting enrage timers easier.
Secondly, my most recent info from Blizzard states my DS should not provide a shield if it misses/is dodged, currently it does but until I have confirmation that's intended I assume it can change at any time. (If I missed an announcement on this please correct me)
Finally, Dodge DR is so ridiculous that by hitting these caps I barely lose any avoidance anyway.

If/when I reach a point in HCs where I am causing healers to have mana issues or am dying, I will re-evaluate this of course.

[Barael]

Hit is actually slightly better than Expertise nowadays since we do have attacks like Rune Strike that don't benefit from Expertise. Doesn't matter if you're going to cap both of course but I thought I'd point it out.