GC: Prove 5-10% DPS difference between two specs = FIX

[poxyoxy]

Put 100% Haste; 100% Crit and give 10k Mastery Rating to a Fire Mage and an Elemental.

Fire Mage will go on a Dps Rampage while Elemental will start to stagnate.

.

Not only will that never happen every patch classes that do scale well get a nerf so i don't really see the point in that after all fire Mage already got a nerf and is the lowest Mage spec atm when they get up to being op again they will get another.

[Deleted]

Which has nothing to do with your topic, quite honestly. Class scaling isn't exactly tuned for Challenge Modes... it's tuned for raids. You want to prove that shaman scaling makes them drop low enough that they should be buffed? Do it. Don't attack other user's credibility.

Your statement has nothing to do with the topic nor the part I quoted. He made a statement, I said he's wrong - someone else stated why he was wrong. What is so hard to understand or why it needs futher discussion?

[Xeraxis]

Your statement has nothing to do with the topic nor the part I quoted. He made a statement, I said he's wrong - someone else stated why he was wrong. What is so hard to understand or why it needs futher discussion?

Yeah you said I was wrong. Which I still believe to be true since a 372 green does seem to have a lower budget than a 372 epic, but that doesn't need to be discussed here. It however doesn't change the fact that GC's post has nothing to do with what this thread implies.

[Kralljin]

Not only will that never happen every patch classes that do scale well get a nerf so i don't really see the point in that after all fire Mage already got a nerf and is the lowest Mage spec atm when they get up to being op again they will get another.

It's slightly offtopic but as Hybrid it was pretty surreal to read forums after the Fire Mage nerf, where Mages started talking that fire spec is broken and totally unplayable now, yet they still did more Dps than Ranged Hybrids.

I think the Problem here is that Arcane is way too strong, not that fire is too weak.

And again, it was example to show this issue, not a conclusion.

[Sarevokcz]

Yeah you said I was wrong. Which I still believe to be true since a 372 green does seem to have a lower budget than a 372 epic, but that doesn't need to be discussed here. It however doesn't change the fact that GC's post has nothing to do with what this thread implies.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=78387 http://www.wowhead.com/item=80872
And dont compare items with and without sockets if you dont know how sockets are valued (it was -20 primary and -20 secondary for one socket, regardless of color or socketbonus in cata btw)

[Deleted]

It's slightly offtopic but as Hybrid it was pretty surreal to read forums after the Fire Mage nerf, where Mages started talking that fire spec is broken and totally unplayable now, yet they still did more Dps than Ranged Hybrids.

There are no Hybrids anymore, there aren't called hybrids since WotLK.

[Kralljin]

There are no Hybrids anymore, there aren't called hybrids since WotLK.

Because no one knows about which specs i am talking when i say "ranged hybrids"?

[zenga]

Run simcraft in 463 blues, 489 purples and 512/520 upgraded items.

Now tell me the gap doesnt widen.

I'd like to see that in a chart to be honest, dps + stat weighs at ilvl 489 and then again at 520, for each spec. Would the build in profiles for each spec in simcraft be reliable enough? Else it's just a matter of run a sim for each one and put them in a table.

[Deleted]

There are no Hybrids anymore, there aren't called hybrids since WotLK.

Hybrid tax doesnt exist anymore, but hybrids are still there. A DPS warrior is still able put on a shield and tank, and a healer can still DPS... some DPS are even able to heal (and tank)! :O

[Deleted]

Hybrid tax doesnt exist anymore, but hybrids are still there. A DPS warrior is still able put on a shield and tank, and a healer can still DPS... some DPS are even able to heal (and tank)! :O

And the Tax is what he ment. At least, i'm reading it like that.

[Deleted]

And the Tax is what he ment. At least, i'm reading it like that.

No, he simply said that fire mages are several %s ahead of shadow priests, elemental shaman and balance druids (ranged hybrid DPS). An example for non ranged hybrid would be warlocks, hunters or other mages.

[Kralljin]

And the Tax is what he ment. At least, i'm reading it like that.

It has Nothing to do with an supposed "tax" i just took it as an example because it was easier to write than "any Ranged Dps except Affli locks".

[Deleted]

It has Nothing to do with an supposed "tax" i just took it as an example because it was easier to write than "any Ranged Dps except Affli locks".

Okay my fault

[Vintersol]

Compare numbers on worldoflogs -> win.

[rogas]

Blizz knows exactly what it's doing ... If shaman dps has been a bit low, then that's because they intended it to be low. From what's i've seen enh is slightly ahead on elem. So in retrospect, a 10% (instead of 5%) lightning bolt buff in our tier 14 2p had made more sense.

Since they didn't ... it was probably enh it's time to shine a bit ;-)

[zenga]

Blizz knows exactly what it's doing ... If shaman dps has been a bit low, then that's because they intended it to be low.

I doubt that, else fire wouldn't have been as sick as it was till it got nerfed ... and there are plenty of examples from the past as well. They know what they are doing within certain limits, and still they got surprised by how people do bosses or change the rotation they had in mind when designing the spec.

[SenSayNyu]

Let us see, napkin math:

For T14 Normal (~496 ilvl) according to SimC we got 6.491% gap favoring Enha. Now, in T14 Heroic profile we'll see gap around 7.384%. Scaling difference is pretty low for me, but if our setbonuses will be equal, than in 5.2 BiS (or 5.3 with valor upgrades) gear we can get 10%+ gap.

[woopytywoop]

10% gap over 13ilvl is not possible.

What he probably means is when class A gains 13ilvl (eg500-513) and get 10k dps extra
and class B also gains the same 13ilvls and got 11k extra.

the difference between the 2 classes is 10% and should be fixed since class B scales 10% better.

In the case of elemental we're a bit f'ed as we mostly lag behind and i don't think we scale 10% less than other classes (we can scale less good, but not that much)

But having a gap increase 10%->20% between 2 specs over 13ilvls is not possible. It would mean that one spec scales nearly 100% better than the other.

[Saffa]

Yeah but fire mages get 20 % nerfs every few months so... :P

That would mean after a year or so their damage would be 0 - and although I do not play a fire mage that seems unlikely. Are your figures accurate?

[Maelstrom51]

That would mean after a year or so their damage would be 0 - and although I do not play a fire mage that seems unlikely. Are your figures accurate?

You're bad at math.

.8^m, where m = months. That won't ever hit zero.

Not that what the guy you quoted said is right. Blizzard targeted their scaling in previous nerfs as well, I doubt fire scaling will ever be out of control.