Rogue PVE 4set seems overpowered

[yurano]

The elite gear seems to have the same ilvl and stat allocation as the non-elite tyrannical on the PTR, but I guess this is just temporary?

I counter your Elite gear with Heroic PvE gear. Although, if you can't get Heroic PvE gear but can grind up Elite gear, you have no choice but to use Elite gear (even if Heroic PvE gear is better). That doesn't take away from the fact that PvE gear shouldn't be better than PvP gear.

[Tenjen]

but this pve gear isnt better or pvp than the pvp gear of similar rank.

this has already been addressed in the last page by a number of people.

[Deleted]

I counter your Elite gear with Heroic PvE gear. Although, if you can't get Heroic PvE gear but can grind up Elite gear, you have no choice but to use Elite gear (even if Heroic PvE gear is better). That doesn't take away from the fact that PvE gear shouldn't be better than PvP gear.

You seem to have missed my point entirely. I was inquiring as to whether it's intended that the elite and non-elite gear have the same stats. Of course PvE gear of the same tier should NOT be better than PvP gear for PvP.

[yurano]

but this pve gear isnt better or pvp than the pvp gear of similar rank.

this has already been addressed in the last page by a number of people.

PvP gear by nature is designed to be better than PvE gear due to PvP power and PvP resilience.

If the PvE 4-set for Rogues is truly as powerful as it sounds, the increased ilvl and set bonus will greatly outweigh the benefits of PvP power. Rogues are less dependent on PvP resilience, so a loss there for greatly improved burst may be worth it.

You seem to have missed my point entirely. I was inquiring as to whether it's intended that the elite and non-elite gear have the same stats. Of course PvE gear of the same tier should NOT be better than PvP gear for PvP.

Elite PvP is 512, according to WoWHead.

[Wow]

Rogues are less dependent on PvP resilience,

With this statement you seem to know nothing about mop rogues in pvp.

[Valedus]

With this statement you seem to know nothing about mop rogues in pvp.

Yeah, I agree with this. Good luck with "Rogues are less dependent on PvP Resilience" when you eat a stun and explode.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I agree with this. Good luck with "Rogues are less dependent on PvP Resilience" when you eat a stun and explode.

Well, the concern here is that rogues might be able to make fully resil geared targets "eat a stun an explode". Since rogues always strike first there's a very real risk, especially in 2s, that a rogue in PvE gear will blow up a full tyrannical geared player who simply can't fight back on account of the power disparity due to the rogue set.

[Valedus]

Well, the concern here is that rogues might be able to make fully resil geared targets "eat a stun an explode". Since rogues always strike first there's a very real risk, especially in 2s, that a rogue in PvE gear will blow up a full tyrannical geared player who simply can't fight back on account of the power disparity due to the rogue set.

People are way too forgiving with it though. How often is a rogue going to open on a target unharassed, especially when the other team notices he is wearing a PvE 4 set? (.7 sec GCD's are pretty damn noticeable)

Teams with DK's, other rogues, hunters, are all going to crush you by just peeling the hell out of you. And if your opener doesn't kill someone, good luck. Resilience is a pretty huge deal.

[Eazy]

PvP Resilience and PvP Power are keys.

Do not tak about Legendary + Trinket thing, because we didn't have then PvP Power and PvP Resilience(I mean the same amount as in MoP). Tiriosh, Golad and Vial of Shadows aren't 4 Pieces of PvP Set.(Crippling Poison with non-lethal other Poison, +30 energy and HUGE amount of PvP Power and PvP Resilience).

For me, it isn't going to be OP, but I cannot say anything about it right now, because we still haven't checked how rogue with 4P of T15 is trying to kill someone with PvP gear.

People are way too forgiving with it though. How often is a rogue going to open on a target unharassed, especially when the other team notices he is wearing a PvE 4 set? (.7 sec GCD's are pretty damn noticeable)

Teams with DK's, other rogues, hunters, are all going to crush you by just peeling the hell out of you. And if your opener doesn't kill someone, good luck. Resilience is a pretty huge deal.

I agree with you.

[Deleted]

People are way too forgiving with it though. How often is a rogue going to open on a target unharassed, especially when the other team notices he is wearing a PvE 4 set? (.7 sec GCD's are pretty damn noticeable)

Teams with DK's, other rogues, hunters, are all going to crush you by just peeling the hell out of you. And if your opener doesn't kill someone, good luck. Resilience is a pretty huge deal.

Yes, resilience is a big deal but if you look at the ammount of resilience you actually lose, and I believe this can be mitigated to an extent with resil gems, or power gems if you feel that is more needed, it's not a huge deal. I'm not saying that it's 100% better. I'm just cautious that there's a very real risk of rogue PvE gear significantly outshining PvP gear for PvP. Again.

[Wow]

Yes, resilience is a big deal but if you look at the ammount of resilience you actually lose, and I believe this can be mitigated to an extent with resil gems, or power gems if you feel that is more needed, it's not a huge deal. I'm not saying that it's 100% better. I'm just cautious that there's a very real risk of rogue PvE gear significantly outshining PvP gear for PvP. Again.

Top pvp'ers gem res now so it would be a full loss from the gear as you would have been gemming res either set.

[Valedus]

Resilience scales insanely well. You're losing more than 5% damage reduction doing this anyway, and as others have pointed out you are losing Vigor and automatic crippling from your set bonuses.

[yurano]

Resilience scales insanely well. You're losing more than 5% damage reduction doing this anyway, and as others have pointed out you are losing Vigor and automatic crippling from your set bonuses.

Minor compared to being able to blow someone up before they can react.

Might not be as critical at high ratings, but burst comps are prevalent at lower ratings and Rogue 4-set PvP would be pretty unfair.

With this statement you seem to know nothing about mop rogues in pvp.

Unlike most classes, Rogues are one of the classes that have a ton of defenses outside of resilience, especially with the recent buffs to Rogue mobility/cloak of skill. Not that it would actually matter if you're playing a burst comp.

Either the enemy dies within the first 30s, or you lose. Standard burst comp strategy.

[Wow]

Unlike most classes, Rogues are one of the classes that have a ton of defenses outside of resilience, especially with the recent buffs to Rogue mobility/cloak of skill. Not that it would actually matter if you're playing a burst comp.

Rogue defensive's are crap in mop the biggest problem with rogues atm is how fast they die. Do you even play this game? You sound like you think mop rogues = cata rogues.

[Deleted]

Rogues are strong on PTR, but they still die in stuns. Trading PvP gear for that PvE 4-set is suicide.

[Deleted]

Given that blizzard has nerfed a lot of classes burst for 5.2 and buffed rogue a little bit, I don't think we'll be seeing rogues wearing 4pt tier a lot in PvP, the resi/power tradeoff and setbonuses are too big a tradeoff.

It may work in the lower brackets with a burst team but I honestly doubt we'll be seeing this a lot.

[Valedus]

Minor compared to being able to blow someone up before they can react.

Might not be as critical at high ratings, but burst comps are prevalent at lower ratings and Rogue 4-set PvP would be pretty unfair.



Unlike most classes, Rogues are one of the classes that have a ton of defenses outside of resilience, especially with the recent buffs to Rogue mobility/cloak of skill. Not that it would actually matter if you're playing a burst comp.

Either the enemy dies within the first 30s, or you lose. Standard burst comp strategy.

The only way you "can't react" is if your other two partners have their thumbs up their asses and you don't have a trinket. That's it. Rogues wearing 4 set won't work above about 1300, I'd say.

[Veliane]

The only way you "can't react" is if your other two partners have their thumbs up their asses and you don't have a trinket.

I think you're confused as to how PvP works, let me introduce you to Subterfuge.

Are you going to play a 3v3 arena constantly looking for the Rogue? the other 2 will open on your team, so you will have to switch focus and react accordingly for a while until the rogue comes..
and the Rogue comes... wait how do you know? do you know where he is..? he doesn't even make a sound while he's chopping your team mate (does not make sounds.. for real)
He has 3 seconds with a .7 sec global to be unstoppable, that is 5 attacks before anyone notices where... and now what? you do trash the rogue? but mates can AE cc.. throw some pet damage or off damage and silence or what not while the Rogue just shits on someone... and he can Vanish, do it again and prep it all back.

So tell me, if you're theoretically blowing up in no more than a stunlock.. what answer do you have when an enemy you can't see will open, and you can't react until he has landed 5 attacks?
That is assuming of course his teammates will let you react at all.
Is a Trinket enough? trinket's down now what? are you ready for assault number 2? 3? hard switches?

Subterfuge enables this, and as Avatar and Bestial Wrath have proven it, it's not fun nor balanced when you don't have an answer to someone's unbridled burst.

This isn't the talent's fault, but the way it works, with what you receive from the set bonus and with a Rogue's uncanny ability to elude and open at will... it'll be broken for sure.. way past 1300... way past 2k...

Now let's talk numbers. You can have about 50% PvP Power and 56% Resilience while sporting a 4 set PvE, and 40k more health due to Ilvl. PTR tested... you think PvP gear can compete with that?

[Valedus]

I think you're confused as to how PvP works, let me introduce you to Subterfuge.

Are you going to play a 3v3 arena constantly looking for the Rogue? the other 2 will open on your team, so you will have to switch focus and react accordingly for a while until the rogue comes..
and the Rogue comes... wait how do you know? do you know where he is..? he doesn't even make a sound while he's chopping your team mate (does not make sounds.. for real)
He has 3 seconds with a .7 sec global to be unstoppable, that is 5 attacks before anyone notices where... and now what? you do trash the rogue? but mates can AE cc.. throw some pet damage or off damage and silence or what not while the Rogue just shits on someone... and he can Vanish, do it again and prep it all back.

So tell me, if you're theoretically blowing up in no more than a stunlock.. what answer do you have when an enemy you can't see will open, and you can't react until he has landed 5 attacks?
That is assuming of course his teammates will let you react at all.
Is a Trinket enough? trinket's down now what? are you ready for assault number 2? 3? hard switches?

Subterfuge enables this, and as Avatar and Bestial Wrath have proven it, it's not fun nor balanced when you don't have an answer to someone's unbridled burst.

This isn't the talent's fault, but the way it works, with what you receive from the set bonus and with a Rogue's uncanny ability to elude and open at will... it'll be broken for sure.. way past 1300... way past 2k...

Now let's talk numbers. You can have about 50% PvP Power and 56% Resilience while sporting a 4 set PvE, and 40k more health due to Ilvl. PTR tested... you think PvP gear can compete with that?

I know exactly how subterfuge works, I play with a rogue. He's not going to kill you in less than 3 seconds, lol. He doesn't make a sound, you're right. That's why you play with GladiatorLossa and hear "Shadow Blades!" and pop defensive cooldown. You also listed off a bunch of things their team can do while your team is what... doing nothing? Your healer priest/shadow priest aoe fears. Your lock Shadowfuries, your hunter shoots a frost trap under you... do I need to go on? Stealth =/= "unstoppable."

Also: Prep does not bring back Offensive CD's. So he has one chance every 3 minutes to use his 4 set and he's dropping his pvp set bonuses and stats for it?

Also: Monks are going to be coming in full swing. They have 2 trinkets against stuns. Then the rogue is getting his dick kicked in.

Again: Just because you can't see him doesn't mean aoe CC's do not work.

Yes, I do think PvP gear can compete with that. Look up how resilience scales, on this very forum.
1. Rogue stealth =/= unstoppable.
2. You will have two teammates also.
3. Rogue is losing a TON of defensive capability being at 56% resil instead of probably 66%+.
4. Rogue will pop in stunlocks too. Glass cannons are not a good strategy against decent players. Why do you think Enhance and Ret aren't used in arena right now?

[Terahertz]

The pve set is easily abusable. How? By switching gear mid-game. At least, if that's still possible to do of course. If it is, rogues can simply equip 4 pc pve set, do their opening burst > vanish > wait 5-6 seconds and equip their pvp gear.