Sad News: Exodus calls it quits

[Deleted]

I dont know the whole story but to me they sound like a bunch of whinny bitches ....sorry mods I mean ...they sound like frustrated players ..

Let's see. They are players who have accomplished more in WoW than you ever will, they downed bosses you're going to wait 1-2 expansions before you'll even get a shot at them. Yet you call them "whinny bitches"? It's like you're trying to prove the things he said, not the game is the problem but what the community has become. A bunch of horrible pseudo hardcore players who aren't even any good.

[Deleted]

It's funny, a few months ago when vodka and Exodus merged because a lot of their members had quit at the end of T14, I remember saying on these forums how things like dailies and coins were certainly a factor. But throngs of people were saying that no way could something like that even factor in to a decision to quit the game for a top world raider. Well now you've heard it from Killars himself.

These people play to raid, not do chores outside of raids on 3 characters. They value their personal time like any normal player and like to be able to take a night off, go to a bar, or just unwind playing other games.

Even in a hardcore guild if you are presumably raiding every time you can get 25 people together, that still leaves a lot of time during the week when you can't get a full raid together due to people being at work, school, etc. Even a world first guild can be predominantly "raid loggers" so that people that just enjoy raiding can just raid.

Imagine if in order to min/max your arena gear you had to do dailies every single day? I bet that would cause some Gladiator burnout.

I'm not sure what game you're talking about, but if you're talking about WoW you're way wrong dude, to get 90 (now 50) silver coins requires _zero_ effort, at max 30 minutes _a week_. Killars can say whatever he wants about why Exodus disbanded, but the reason is simple, vodka + exodus = bad mix, and they can't even be on top 3.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I find it hard to believe that doing 5 dailies a day is suddenly too much for a guild used to running multiple alt raids for the last 5 years. My money is on them simply running out of motivation to play because that is what happens when you play a game as intensively as they did for that amount of time. They don't want to admit that though, so they think that they can blame it on something everybody has been ragging on.

[Deleted]

With the game becoming more casual because of whiners, it really is harder and harder to find quality raiders.

You seem to have completely missed the point. Hardcore Raiders are the ones who have ground the scene into the ground by always trying to take it that one step further to secure the World first, the level of commitment that's required when a new tier is released to even rank in the top 10 is now at a ridiculous level, your talking raiding 16+hours a day, 7 days a week on several characters to try and keep the edge.

Method raided 14-16 hours a day during much of the progression.

That's posted on the front page when Ra-den was killed. At the end of the day this is still a game, that amount of commitment is more then some people work, and it's no wonder that hardcore raiders are burning out because of it. And do you know why it's turned out like this, Hardcore raiders didn't like the idea that it was gear that was holding them back and not skill. Once the gear cap was relaxed it was no longer about which guild had what gear available, it became about who could get the most practice in, then the practice of Alt-running content became common place.

back in Vanilla and TBC, there would be a very definitive Brick Wall, it might have been "We need xx Resistance gear" or "More Druids with x/8 tier 2", or just pure, We need better gear to pass this gear check(Patchwerk being a prime example) None of these things exist any more. So if your remove any artificial block on a skilled and determined group of individuals, whose single goal is to be the first, they WILL take it to the nth degree and go overboard, and as a result, burn themselves out.

Every tier in this expansion guilds have been praising Blizzard on the tuning and the encounters when they have come out the other end, they are getting what they wan't, but the high atrition IS an after effect of that.

[Deleted]

welfare wasn't cutting the bills?

[kif]

Black Temple was plenty difficult if I recall correctly. The Wow raid scene was "not prepared' for hard modes yet. Have you ever sat down and watched some of those videos from fairly high level guilds, there are clickers in there...the game and the players have evolved. In every case though, the skills/dedication to remain at the top..have done only one thing....gotten more intense. Like all games, be they physical or mental...being the best early on in the life cycle is easy...being the best at the current time always requires better, smarter, harder play. These examples fit almost every style and type of game, provided there is a benefit be it monetary or bragging on the line.

When you were a kid, if you understand how to play chess, you were probably pretty good...advance 20 years, and playing against other peole that have been playing for 20 years...can you win being sloppy, NO. You have to BE better always.

The more you invest in your performance, the better YOU will become. If you have 1, 3, 5, 10, 25 or 40 people that is the case. Claiming that it's impossible to get to the highest level because there are 13 bosses right now...cop out. The people that can truly put the time in, and have the skill...are doing it. It's OK to say that your not the best in the world...it really is. Right now, there are fewer guilds at the very pinnacle of performance...and actually...that's rea;;y the way it always is in every true sport. How many people on earth play golf? Hoe many people actually have the SKILL/TIME, to be able to play professionally...I think you are really looking at a the 99% vs the 1%. The 1% though...in this case...are fun to watch when they tear through h modes in gear from the previous tier, playing perfectly, putting up numbers that most people won't reproduce for may ilevels.

[Skomoto]

Hopefully I'm not the only one who thought you were posting about the demise of one of the greatest second wave thrash bands.

Glad to see they're not stopping :P

Everybody's doin the toxic waltz!!!!

[Redpanda]

I find it hard to believe that doing 5 dailies a day is suddenly too much for a guild used to running multiple alt raids for the last 5 years. My money is on them simply running out of motivation to play because that is what happens when you play a game as intensively as they did for that amount of time. They don't want to admit that though, so they think that they can blame it on something everybody has been ragging on.

i highly doubt its dalies its more i would say time investment, peoples lives change and not everyone can dedicate that much time anymore so you end up being short a dps or 2 or short a healer or 2 and its not easy to find someone of that caliber to jump right in to throw gear at them and hope they dont fall through. They arent going to pug someone LF 1M Healer for H Dark Animus 25 PST. It gets tiring and frustrating. Look what happened to paragon they where rocking it in 25s and it came time that not everyone can invest that much time in raiding so they had to go down to 10. Nothing lasts forever people get tired and lives change its as simple as that. Sad to see them go Vodka and Exodus where always my favorite guilds, sad to see them go.

[berzerk44]

i highly doubt its dalies its more i would say time investment, peoples lives change and not everyone can dedicate that much time anymore so you end up being short a dps or 2 or short a healer or 2 and its not easy to find someone of that caliber to jump right in to throw gear at them and hope they dont fall through. They arent going to pug someone LF 1M Healer for H Dark Animus 25 PST. It gets tiring and frustrating. Look what happened to paragon they where rocking it in 25s and it came time that not everyone can invest that much time in raiding so they had to go down to 10. Nothing lasts forever people get tired and lives change its as simple as that.

Yeah that sadly happened to my guild. We became the top guild on the server then people just got tired and there was a lot of backstabbing then it turned into a 10 man guild. They are slowly trying to regain momentum again but they kind of like going casual now.

[Masser]

yes really sad news i can't stop crying

[Redpanda]

Yeah that sadly happened to my guild. We became the top guild on the server then people just got tired and there was a lot of backstabbing then it turned into a 10 man guild. They are slowly trying to regain momentum again but they kind of like going casual now.

people like to tinfoil and flame etc and think there is some shady stuff going on (backstabbing aside) in your case but people do get tired of raiding long hours and sitting there doing your best takes alot out of you, people simply get tired. And unfortunate what happened to your guild. *fist in the air* stay strong in the strugle my brother

[Lumineux]

25m raiding having superior gear made it a mandatory route, and one which penalised anyone not able to participate in that.
It hurt smaller guilds.

This doesn't make any sense. What stops you from raiding in a 25 man guild that raids 3 days a week vs a 10 man guild that raids the exact same amount of time? Nothing at all. It's your choice. Now we're just hurting 25 man guilds. The pure logistics of maintaining a 25 man roster and getting 25 people to learn boss mechanics will make 25 man always harder than 10 mans, no matter what. That's why so many guilds have gone down from 25 to 10. It's the same rewards for less effort (although now with thunderforged ilevels may be slightly higher in 25 mans...it'd be interesting to see more numbers)

[djtravitrav]

I blame blood legion for poaching all the "best" players

[SamR]

Interestingly, they're quitting because top tier WoW raiding is becoming too hardcore. The guilds competing for world firsts are sinking more and more time into the race.

I think for the good(but not competing for world firsts) guilds, things are more casual now than they were in vanilla/TBC. But for the guilds at the very top who do crazy things like run multiple alt raids and such, raiding is more time consuming than it was before.

Oh, BTW, outside of Wrath Naxx, Black Temple was the easiest raiding tier Blizzard ever released in the game. Intensive gating was used to keep it exclusive, but difficulty wise it was easy. The boss that guilds got stuck on the most was Mother Shahraz and that was only because of the required farming for Shadow Resist.

[Volitar]

Kripp never was a top hunter, he's been around for ages at a semi high level but not at the very top.

I can understand if you don't like him but he had top 10 parses on every WOTLK boss during current content. What exactly would you call very top?

Also I know that Landsoul/Arv from Vodka/Exodus and Kennyloggins from midwinter went to Blood Legion recently.

[Byniri]

I don't blame them.

I can't imagine going for world firsts tier after tier expansion after expansion. Eventually that just gets tiring and stressful.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

This is pretty much the final nail in the coffin for 25-mans. There's not enough big-name guilds to justify the time of balancing/creating content, and this only proves Thunderforged did not fix the problem.

[Urti]

Funny that he doesn't blame Blizzard, but the reason he cites for Exodus' demise is the result of Blizzard's choices in MoP.

Back in the Wrath and Cata days, progression raiding guilds didn't need to do dailies, farm for coins, buy items on the BMAH, run LFR (excluding Hours of Twilight), and maintain armies of alts (excluding ToGC).

But now because of all the gimmicks that Blizzard has added, the fact that epics are on the BMAH before current tier bosses ever get killed, now that you can't cap valor by raiding, and that serious raiding guilds had to run LFR when MoP launched, Blizzard in MoP has forced serious raiders to have to grind through all these things to stay competitive.

"But no one is forced to do anything", they retort. And if you're one of the many people who subscribe to this argument, then you're out of touch with reality. This is what serious raiding guilds do to stay competitive. To claim that they don't have to do it, is to live in la-la land. In the real world, this is what happens. This is a fact of reality. And it's the result of Blizzard's poor design decision in MoP. But it doesn't have to be this way as WotLK and Cata shows.

Actually he cites the raider community as the main reason, as they have perpetrated a culture of high stakes high consequence competition amongst themselves that was effectively impossible to maintain, and therefore has had the "unforeseen" consequence of burning out players. They push to be ubercompetitive, then other guilds top them so they work even harder, and so on until you get to an untenable state. Nice try on turning it around on Blizz though.

[ihyln]

Even with daily quests, you still have to do far less work to prepare for raids than in Classic.

haha ahahahaha hahahaha haha. ha.

says someone who never raided in vanilla.

[Osmeric]

Interestingly, they're quitting because top tier WoW raiding is becoming too hardcore. The guilds competing for world firsts are sinking more and more time into the race.

I think for the good(but not competing for world firsts) guilds, things are more casual now than they were in vanilla/TBC. But for the guilds at the very top who do crazy things like run multiple alt raids and such, raiding is more time consuming than it was before.

Oh, BTW, outside of Wrath Naxx, Black Temple was the easiest raiding tier Blizzard ever released in the game. Intensive gating was used to keep it exclusive, but difficulty wise it was easy. The boss that guilds got stuck on the most was Mother Shahraz and that was only because of the required farming for Shadow Resist.

One has to wonder why Blizzard even makes content for these people and their self-consuming lifestyle.