New Talent- Rushing Streams + CH change

[Kenai]

Hope this is enough to pull the spec out of the gutter. It's been a long time coming, but at least it's here. Interested to see how everyone does on the PTR.

[Grubjuice]

I agree the synergy between CotE and Rushing Streams does seem problematic.

Although i was taking CotE anyway (to be honest a shaman can still use SLT without Totemic Projection, it just requires knowing where to stand)

I feel like the tier 45 talents need, or will need, a redesign

[Tiberria]

I agree the synergy between CotE and Rushing Streams does seem problematic.

Although i was taking CotE anyway (to be honest a shaman can still use SLT without Totemic Projection, it just requires knowing where to stand)

I feel like the tier 45 talents need, or will need, a redesign

I don't know that it's that big of a problem. It's a double HST every 6th time you drop it. With the new talent, it will be more like a 3-4% output increase. However, Totemic Projection isn't just about dropping SLT, you have to factor in that if you need to move in and back out to drop SLT - you're losing several GCDs. On really spread out fights like Lei Shen, Ji Kun, etc, being able to project Stormlash and MTT is also highly valuable. The only fight I have ever used CoTE on this expansion is Shek'zeer (for more Tremor Totem coverage) - I have preferred the utility of Projection otherwise.

The problem with that tier is more that (1) Totemic Restoration is nearly uselesss for PvE - it's an uptime loss on major totems and (2) Totemic Projection feels like it should be baseline, not something you have to give other talents up to get,

[Caedi]

Does Rushing Streams have a CD or is it passive?

[Tiberria]

Does Rushing Streams have a CD or is it passive?

It's a passive buff to HST.

[Grubjuice]

Does Rushing Streams have a CD or is it passive?

It's a passive buff to HST.

Which is to say, Healing Stream Totem still has a 30 second cooldown, but heals twice as many people twice as much.

[Tiberria]

I don't know if anyone noticed, but they changed the wording on Rushing Streams on the PTR notes today.

New Talent: Rushing Streams. This new talent replaces the slot vacated by Healing Tide Totem, increases healing done by Healing Stream Totem by 15%, and causes the totem to heal 2 targets at once.

That means that instead of being a 300% buff, it's actually a 130% buff (2 targets x 115% instead of 1 target x 100%). It still works out to about a 13% throughput increase assuming HST is 10% of your output, which is strong - but it is no longer clearly better than AG - that will depend on how important burst is and how usable AG is on a per fight basis.

[Rarch]

I agree the synergy between CotE and Rushing Streams does seem problematic.

Although i was taking CotE anyway (to be honest a shaman can still use SLT without Totemic Projection, it just requires knowing where to stand)

I feel like the tier 45 talents need, or will need, a redesign

It's not always about where to stand, it's more about timing. There are many effects that target ranged/healers and can be very problematic for the raid if you happen to be standing in or near melee and that effect targets you. It's why Monks were given special treatment for their fist weaving mechanic in those situations. By it's nature, SLT is best used when there's an unexpected spike in damage that you need to quickly counter, and in many encounters, it's just not practical to position yourself first, you need a much more efficient way to get your SLT in there.

I don't know that it's that big of a problem. It's a double HST every 6th time you drop it. With the new talent, it will be more like a 3-4% output increase. However, Totemic Projection isn't just about dropping SLT, you have to factor in that if you need to move in and back out to drop SLT - you're losing several GCDs. On really spread out fights like Lei Shen, Ji Kun, etc, being able to project Stormlash and MTT is also highly valuable. The only fight I have ever used CoTE on this expansion is Shek'zeer (for more Tremor Totem coverage) - I have preferred the utility of Projection otherwise.

The problem with that tier is more that (1) Totemic Restoration is nearly uselesss for PvE - it's an uptime loss on major totems and (2) Totemic Projection feels like it should be baseline, not something you have to give other talents up to get,

With the new update to the patch notes on Rushing Streams, it certainly doesn't seem like CotE is going to be as important. Also, yeah, I should have mentioned the other utility to TP as well, I just used SLT for the argument because it is by far the most obvious problem. TP helps a lot with Stormlash in my raids, especially, though. I even use it for things like tossing HTT ahead of the group for Blade Lord Ta'yak or Iron Qon tornado phases, etc.

[Sparkidy]

To be honest, healing 2 targets for 100% more was absurdly good. This evens the field between the talents a bit, making the tier situational again, which is is what the stated design goals are. Between this change and the buffs to chain heal, I'm starting to regain a bit of confidence that I'll feel useful again.

[Deleted]

I don't see many people talking about chain heal no longer losing 30% each jump why is that? I know that Chain Heal is a bad spell as it is now on live due to the low HPS and spread range but if we add the previous buff to the chaining glyph (4second cooldown to 2s cooldown now) and this new buff to Chain Heal i'm starting to feel a little hopefull that Chain heal could be back into our arsenal.

Definately not spammable with the 2 second cooldown of the glyph but it could be a good button to press sometimes especialy since it would have decent range with the glyph and better HPS now.

It feels that chain heal just needs one more little push to make it back, a gut feeling perhaps! hopefuly i'm not wrong.

[shammypie]

I don't see many people talking about chain heal no longer losing 30% each jump why is that? I know that Chain Heal is a bad spell as it is now on live due to the low HPS and spread range but if we add the previous buff to the chaining glyph (4second cooldown to 2s cooldown now) and this new buff to Chain Heal i'm starting to feel a little hopefull that Chain heal could be back into our arsenal.

Definately not spammable with the 2 second cooldown of the glyph but it could be a good button to press sometimes especialy since it would have decent range with the glyph and better HPS now.

It feels that chain heal just needs one more little push to make it back, a gut feeling perhaps! hopefuly i'm not wrong.

its never been low HPS, its rather decent as is. The problem is more that people don't know how to use it right.

[Deleted]

Talents

Rushing Streams (New) Your Healing Stream Totem now heals two targets at once for 15% additional healing. Shaman - LvL 75 Talent.

[RestoMurilo]

Chain heal was definitely low hps. Especially before the 20% buff in late march. Even now the numbers don't show it to be as stout of an AOE heal as most people think.

[Deleted]

Yeah, Knew it Would be nerfed Before live. It Was TOO good And Even better with T152pc.

[Deleted]

Chain heal was definitely low hps. Especially before the 20% buff in late march. Even now the numbers don't show it to be as stout of an AOE heal as most people think.

I understand that and i agree, but with recent changes Chain Heal with the chaining glyph it now heals "inteligently" 4 targets with no 30% penalty in values in targets beyond the 1st, with 25 yard range jumps on a 2s cooldown. Having no penalty in the jumps to other targets its actualy quite good in therms of HPS, especialy if you start adding the 25% riptide buff to it aswell if you combine on the same target. Also, helps in the tidal waves departament aswell.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that it will be our go-to heal, i just start to feel it actually starts to become interesting.

[Lei]

Rushing Streams (New) Your Healing Stream Totem now heals two targets at once for 15% additional healing. Shaman - LvL 75 Talent.

Rushing Streams sounds good with the current 2pc, but what if/when we lose it?
We basically got t15 2pc (buffed) as a talent. Dunno what to think of it yet. I mean yeah, hooray, and everything, but... hmm.
And meh, HST babysitting continues.

[RestoMurilo]

Oh I agree 100% knight, my comment was more directed at shammypie's "it has never been low hps". The new changes will be a huge help to it for sure, but before the 20% buff it wasn't in a good place.

[Sparkidy]

I don't mind babysitting my HST if it's going to reward me like that. That + buffed chain heal + glyph means I can stop complaining about spread healing, getting my heals sniped, and healing on the move is going to be a bit less painful now as well.

I'm pretty chuffed, to be honest.

[Mormolyce]

Sounds like a pretty cool talent.

As for the new talent, I'm still not sure how Conductivity will pan out, so I'm holding off on calling what the best choice for that tier will be.

Well ideally, there won't be one.

[Euphonious]

Does this mean shamans can have 2 ascendance's now? Is ancestral guidance comparable to that at all? Or will every shaman just always take HST talent.