Men's Rights Movement

[Rukentuts]

It is unrelated but there could be potential circumstances were allowing a person to testify despite being shitfaced might be necessary. If, say, the person in question never showed up in court sober. In theory anyhow

No, there can't. If a person refused to show up sober they would be held in contempt.

[Endus]

i.e. they just ruled that the evidence in her case didn't support a compromise to informed consent.

For one, that isn't how the law works. There's a concept called "precedence" that's kind of important.

For two, the part I cited was where the judge made a statement about the law itself, not her specific instance. He made a clear statement that inebriation itself does not invalidate consent.

Another citation from that case; "Here it is important to note that the loss of memory is not conclusive of incapacity, nor is rationality conclusive of good decision making.[/quote]

In short, proving that she was so intoxicated she lost her memory does not prove she was incapable of consent.

Because you can consent to sex, while drunk. Again; in most cities, there would be tens of thousands of rape cases every night if you argued otherwise. For the most part, where two aggressors "raped" each other against both of their wills, simultaneously. Which is nonsense.

[Rukentuts]

Because you can consent to sex, while drunk.

That's kinda the definition of compromised. But it also means it isn't always true.

[nextormento]

So what would you call a severely mentally disabled person that says they want to fuck but isn't able to understand what they're saying?

I would -and the law in many countries- presume coercion and bring it to the statutory rape clauses. I must point out that comparing an inebriated person to a mentally handicapped one is somewhat disingenuous to your point.

[Endus]

That's kinda the definition of compromised. But it also means it isn't always true.

As I've already cited case law proving that it is not the definition, I have no idea what you're going on about.

[Deleted]

That's kinda the definition of compromised. But it also means it isn't always true.

Compromised not mentally handicapped and as responsible as a 5year old.

[Rukentuts]

As I've already cited case law proving that it is not the definition, I have no idea what you're going on about.

And I've already linked that it does.

- - - Updated - - -

Compromised not mentally handicapped and as responsible as a 5year old.

Can a 5 year old consent to sex?

[Deleted]

And I've already linked that it does.

- - - Updated - - -

Can a 5 year old consent to sex?

Btw your source doesnt share your oppinion. They say not no doesnt mean yes you say every yes is no if you are drunk.
Next time be honest enough to read the sources you provide.

Being drunk doesnt make you 5year old and 5 year olds are under the age of criminal responsibility

[Rukentuts]

Btw your link doesnt share your opppinion. They say not no doesnt mean yes you say every yes is no if you are drunk.
Next time be honest enough to read the sources you provide.

Yeah, it's like you don't even know what inhibitions are.

[Deleted]

Yeah, it's like you don't even know what inhibitions are.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...25-1/43-51.htm

. Other victims may not realize that they have actually experienced legally defined rape or sexual assault, because the incident does not fit the prototypic scenario of “stranger rape.” For example, in a study by Abbey and colleagues (1996b), a woman wrote, “For years I believed it was my fault for being too drunk. I never called it ‘rape’ until much more recently,even though I repeatedly told him ‘no’.” This article summarizes current knowledge about alcohol’s role in sexual assault and discusses questions that remain to be answered by future research.

Its like you do this on purpose.

[Velaniz]

By your subjective opinion and not any measurable context.

You haven't really paid any thought to what I've said so far then. Let's "measure" this up from scratch then. I'm going to present you with this hypothetical, and ask you at which point you become, by lawful definitions, a rapist.

You're at a bar. This drunk Chick flings herself onto you. She was giving you appraising looks throughout the night, as well as plenty of not-so-subtle indicators that she's interested. You yourself have had only a few drinks so far. Nothing too serious. Your senses are slightly dulled, but for the most part your mental acuity is intact. You could even pass a breathalyser test. She, on the other hand, is certainly in a more unrestrained state. Her inebriation makes it obvious that she's had plenty to drink. Her inhibitions are minimal. She practically drags you to her house, you both take each other's clothes off, and in this situation, she does all the work. That means hundred percent. She literally rides you the whole time, and then crashes out in her bed. Your input during the intercourse consisted of nothing other than the orgasm you had at the end, and providing her with your tools with which she did what she did.

Do you think you're a rapist in this situation?

[Xarkan]

You haven't really paid any thought to what I've said so far then. Let's "measure" this up from scratch then. I'm going to present you with this hypothetical, and ask you at which point you become, by lawful definitions, a rapist.

You're at a bar. This drunk Chick flings herself onto you. She was giving you appraising looks throughout the night, as well as plenty of not-so-subtle indicators that she's interested. You yourself have had only a few drinks so far. Nothing too serious. Your senses are slightly dulled, but for the most part your mental acuity is intact. You could even pass a breathalyser test. She, on the other hand, is certainly in a more unrestrained state. Her inebriation makes it obvious that she's had plenty to drink. Her inhibitions are minimal. She practically drags you to her house, you both take each other's clothes off, and in this situation, she does all the work. That means hundred percent. She literally rides you the whole time, and then crashes out in her bed. Your input during the intercourse consisted of nothing other than the orgasm you had at the end, and providing her with your tools with which she did what she did.

Do you think you're a rapist in this situation?

Why do you keep making scenarios where the guy is about as active as a corpse?

The answer is no of course, not rape. But why oh why do you make these scenarios?

Also why would she not regret it in the morning?

[Rukentuts]

Do you think you're a rapist in this situation?

I don't fuck chicks. I have never been drunk.

My opinion on what I would be in your hypothetical is irrelevant as I have no basis for comparison.

[nextormento]

<deleted: was editing it>

[Velaniz]

Why do you keep making scenarios where the guy is about as active as a corpse?

You'll see why. also because no one's responded to them yet.

The answer is no of course, not rape. But why oh why do you make these scenarios?

Good. Someone's responded. Okay then. You've accepted that it shouldn't be rape if she's the primary pilot. Now I'll modify the scenario a bit. Everything else remains the same. You're slightly drunk, she's really drunk. But this time, you felt like some missionary. You did it for a short while until she decided she liked it better with her on top. Your input is no longer 0%, but maybe now ten percent. She did ninety percent of the work. Do you think you're a rapist yet??

Also why would she not regret it in the morning?

Because her feelings in the morning don't change what happened the previous night.

[Rukentuts]

Good. Someone's responded. Okay then. You've accepted that it shouldn't be rape if she'd the primary pilot. Now I'll modify the scenario a bit. Everything else remains the same. You're slightly drunk, she's really drunk. But this time, you felt like some missionary. You did it for a short while until she decided she liked it better with her on top. Your input is no longer 0%, but maybe now ten percent. She did ninety percent of the work. Do you think you're a rapist yet??

Women on GHB can be raped even when they're the "pilot". This is because GHB destroys inhibitions and compromises informed consent.

[Deleted]

I don't fuck chicks. I have never been drunk.

My opinion on what I would be in your hypothetical is irrelevant as I have no basis for comparison.

Is that guy a rapist infront of the law or infront of your moral definition of rape?

Women on GHB can be raped even when they're the "pilot". This is because GHB destroys inhibitions and compromises informed consent.

And if am drunk iam as responsible as a 5 year old. If she takes that stuff on purpose in small dosage its no necessarily rape.

[Velaniz]

I don't fuck chicks.

Way to give a smart-ass response and then shit all over my attempts to reason with you. Thought you'd be better than that =/

[Rukentuts]

Way to give a smart-ass response and then shit all over my attempts to reason with you. Thought you'd be better than that =/

You asked for my opinion on what *I* would be, and I gave you reasoning why my opinion is irrelevant.

Don't be mad I'm not qualified to know what *I* would be while drunk when I never have been.

[Deleted]

I don't see how that is sexist:

"The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

Seems to cover any instance of sexual assault i.e. rape.

By your subjective opinion and not any measurable context.

- - - Updated - - -

How is it sexist?

How is the penetration of any anus or vagina by any object or body part sexist against men?

let me enlighten you about some things about anatomy, the penetrating organ is affixed to the Male body, so to have a definition that requires penetration, excludes the gender lacking in natural penetrating organs from the definition of rape, (that would be female) and that by very simple logic, equates to Sexism!

or you don't think "being made to penetrate" counts as rape, even at say gun point as the definition has absolutely no leeway on that or anything.

PS

Women on GHB can be raped even when they're the "pilot". This is because GHB destroys inhibitions and compromises informed consent.

three important things to note here, did she voluntarily imbibe? then not rape, did the rapist spike her drink, then it is rape, see all this hinges on the fact that someone did something TOO her (or him) and that´s Vastly different from voluntarily drinking, see the rather huge difference here ?