Lore Interview with Dave Kosak

[Sett]

Awww. I hope next interview has a little more lore questions on Worgen ( curse mostly ) and Goblins. Sad we're not gonna see the Goblin's big boss anytime soon though.


Poor Kosak. He knows everything and has to watch himself 100% of the time.

[Dreknar20]

They handled post-LK, now two more expansions later, handling post-MoP should happen.

Ghostcrawler said that players do not realize just how much Cata was actually in development
To put that into perspective, Wrath had 1000 quests, Cataclysm had 3000 quests

[RyanEX]

Invade Horde's capital, kill our troops, kill our leader, actually impact on who we get to choose as our next leader...

Welp, that's a fist-bumping moment for Alliance if there ever was one in a game where the story just can't upright spit on 50% of the playerbase. You're not going to get anything better than that as far as HvsA war is considered, so enjoy this bit of news. I, as Horde, am certainly having a moment of sadness over it. Now we need a fist-bumping moment. It won't even have to be over Alliance, just something to show us we're still a strong faction standing on our own.

And here I thought that you were REBELLING AGAINST GARROSH and that he was NO LONGER YOUR WARCHIEF. Also...

PTR has not shown a single Alliance npc PAST the gates after Tyrande breaks them down for Vol'Jin and with Thrall looking to pull a Tirion the Alliance'll probably be relegated to cheerleader status at the gates.

[Thage]

They conquer the city, Moon. Them giving it back to the rebels after forcing them to pick a Warchief who will play ball doesn't change that.

[Infernix]

They conquer the city, Moon. Them giving it back to the rebels after forcing them to pick a Warchief who will play ball doesn't change that.

They're saving the city for the rebels. Hell, they even get a quest revolving around 'saving the children' because awwwww...

They save the city, kill a hated leader and then waltz out without getting anything in return for not tearing the city down its foundations.

They're well-armored janitors.

[RyanEX]

attacking the Horde Warchief and capital isnt beneficial?
Hell of lot benefits the Alliance more than the Horde, we lose our Warchief and all those warriors who could otherwise be on our side

If anything the Horde needs something to show that its a force to be reckoned with after all this death and destruction

Garrosh is no longer your warchief.

I really wish people would stop trying so desperately to use this excuse since you're being painted as an innocent dupe of Garrosh's evil for the ENTIRE FUCKING XPAC.

So we're NOT attacking your warchief. We're attacking that evil bastard that made you do all those horrible things AGAINST YOUR WILL dont'cha know.

[Golden Yak]

I'm going to go with (as I always have) that the Old Gods came first. I base this on:

Original lore.
Cho'gall refering to the Titans as "usurpers"
Blizzard stating themselves that the Faceless Ones and Aqir predate the Titans' arrival (both races have their origins in the old gods).
A major character (can't remember who) saying that if the Titans hadn't come the world would have been ruined by the Old Gods.

That's my preferred take on things. I like the idea of the Old Gods being there first and the Titans coming and busting their heads. Much smoother. Having the Titans arrive, then leave, then come back, then leave again is a little tortured.

The mantid also refer to the Titans as usurpers, so there's that as well.

[Thage]

So how are the Horde players liberators? lol. See the issue? Should've just made titles like Hellscream's End

The rebels are working in tandem with the Alliance. Both sides are using the other to accomplish their goals. Whoever ends up getting the better end of the deal relies on what faction you play--if you play Horde, the rebels end up integral to Orgrimmar's liberation and the Alliance pulls out after pressuring you to pick a Warchief who will be less of a genocidal sociopath; if you play Alliance, you conquer the city and force the rebels to play ball if they want to keep on your good side.

[Infernix]

Hell, Kosak says very bluntly that the Alliance players should be satisfied with that because they're not getting anything that might alienate Horde players. They don't mind alienating the Alliance playerbase, but they'll stop short of doing anything might hurt the Horde's feelings.

And that's all the Alliance players ever need to know from now on. What stuff you get will be stuff that won't piss off the Horde players. Just accept it and move on.

[sylvira]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, Jesse.

Great fan of your videos too!

[Deleted]

We were always in a faction war. It heated up with Hellscream. Now it's effectively over and supposedly the new Warchief is picked by the Alliance. That means cessation of all faction based hostilities if there is any common sense to the game...

No, there was no war before WotLK. The Horde even returns Alliance soldiers escapee to the Alliance authorities and we have the "high five" moment between two of the top leadership of both faction, Bolvar and Saurfang Jr.

[Deleted]

Too bad they didn't have the time for a scenario where we get to kick the Kor'Kron out of the Undercity, would have been great.

Anyway, nice job, Jesse! I do hope that you get to do more interviews with the devs in the future.

[Dreknar20]

No, there was no war before WotLK.

there were still minor skirmishes in those bgs, Alterac Valley, Warsong Gulch

[Deleted]

Which is, any way you cut it, rubbish. They wrote a war story which behaved like a real war story initially, but ended like a joke with both sides being "evenly placated" rather than a proud victor and a defeated loser. Devs want to find a way to keep Horde and Alliance content. They forget all of Cata seeded so much discontent amongst the Alliance fanbase you can't possibly resolve it by ending this war in a compromise favouring the Horde as much as the Alliance. In the end there is nothing gained for the story, for the visible world, or anything else that is in favour of the Alliance. It's not a fist pumping moment, it's just another event, like the rest of Pandaria. SoO was split 50/50, but the story isn't and never will be.

I think that's what Callei is trying to say.

[Thage]

No, there was no war before WotLK. The Horde even returns Alliance soldiers escapee to the Alliance authorities and we have the "high five" moment between two of the top leadership of both faction, Bolvar and Saurfang Jr.

This. Vanilla had a cold war and border skirmishes, and in Outland, we are in a straight alliance, with early quests in Hellfire Peninsula seeing Nazgrel and Danath sending heroes to stop fel orcs from opening fire on the other faction's base with captured cannons/catapaults. Danath even tells you that he may not necessarily like it, but word from command is that the Alliance and Horde are allied in the interest of not being wiped out by demonic armies on the ruins of an alien planet. Even in Wrath, they worked together (to Garrosh and Varian's chagrin) until the Wrathgate caused the coalition to fall apart with a well-timed betrayal from Putress.

[Deleted]

there were still minor skirmishes in those bgs, Alterac Valley, Warsong Gulch

Yep, but no direct confrontations between the Alliance and the Horde. There were even trade deals signed between both sides.

[Thage]

I think that's what Callei is trying to say.

More or less. Canonically, Alliance are clear winners of the Pandaren Campaign (culminating in the Siege), with Ghostcrawler actively discussing ways to show Horde reparations ingame. such as Ashenvale and Gilneas, without detracting from low-level content on Twitter.

[Deleted]

yes there was...
So that means there was no sneak attack by the Horde in Icecrown? Or the constant other skirmishes going along were nothing? No, the Horde and Alliance have been at war since WoW started. It went from a cold war to a hot one.

After the Varimathras' coup and the Siege of Undercity.

Which makes me thinks, this all started on a Siege and it's going to end on a Siege.

[Enosh]

The Alliance win.

the alliance help out the horde win

That the rebels go to them for help at all should give you a very good idea about how far up shit creek they would be otherwise. Full stop, Vol'jin even owns up to it if you challenge him on it.

the alliance came to him first and he insulted them for their troubles

The Alliance get the 'Conqueror of Orgrimmar' title because they used the rebellion to minimize their own losses, kill the Warchief, wipe out the Kor'kron loyalists, and put the rebels in a position where they have to play ball with the Alliance in choosing the next Warchief. Really, dude, stop and think about what Kosak said here and the way he said it: the Alliance allow the Horde to pick a Warchief who will work with them.

kill the warchief they don't like anymore, remove some orcs that don't support them and put the rebellion in power
and which warchief will they choose? the one that is plague bombing shit left and right or just one of the ones that happily supported garrosh until it was inconvenient for them? I'm sure that won't come back to bite the alliance in the ass

and any casualties reduced now have to be compared to the casualties that the horde will inflict the next time they think it's "let's try to murder the alliance" time again

The rebels get the Liberator title because that's what they're doing--they're liberating Orgrimmar from Hellscream's tyranny. The only disconnect here is from people who want half the playerbase to have to spend like three months ingame in a prison cell or something because ermagerd our characters actually aren't all that picky with who our employers are so long as the pay's good.

oh look it's the "ermagad you want to wipe out half the playerbase!!!1111" strawman again
how refreshing

[Deleted]

Cold War is still a state of war. No one in the Alliance could waltz into any horde town, base or outpost, pick up quests specific to the faction etc. All cooperation existed through neutral factions.

Cold War is not a state of war. It's a state of non-cooperation.