Mages had a significant loss of players going from 85 to 90

[Lord Pebbleton]

What is there to say?

[Blowmeup]

Look at your own guilds and I think you will see that many of your guildies won't have mage alts. I'm sure the raiding mages don't want to switch mains or have the capability to do so in 10 mans where rosters or more set in stone where you can't screw with buffs

[voltaa]

Personally I think that a relatively wide study are fair game for debate - even if it only includes thousands instead of millions samples. It is data which can be interpreted - not anecdotal " there is less mages on my friendlist" or even a forum vote.

True this data can be interpreted, but not in the way it has been in this thread, people are extrapolating the data to fit their own agenda's of "mages not being fun at max level" "ages having problematic 90 talents" "warlocks are better/got more love from devs". These could be small factors that contribute, but the data does not tell us any information, people are using this info the same way they use raid bots, making assumptions from data with no background.

[Deleted]

True this data can be interpreted, but not in the way it has been in this thread, people are extrapolating the data to fit their own agenda's of "mages not being fun at max level" "ages having problematic 90 talents" "warlocks are better/got more love from devs". These could be small factors that contribute, but the data does not tell us any information, people are using this info the same way they use raid bots, making assumptions from data with no background.

But sometimes a spade is just a spade. And sometimes ppl stop playing a pc game because they dont think it is fun anymore.
If people state that they have less fun on their mage after the implemention of the lvl 90 maintannence mechanics, their agenda is pretty obvious - and tbh, i dont really see anything wrong with that.

[Imnick]

They are trying to extrapolate from their singular opinion using this data as evidence though, yes they are very much allowed to stop playing themselves for whatever reason but guessing causes for other people leaving and saying that "it was definitely because of X" when the drop was not actually even much more than a ripple and we have basically no data at all apart from the raw number is folly and should not be done.

[Swizzle]

Look, I will say this, and then I will close this thread most likely if people keep going with anecdotal stuff: the Mage class is simply in need of a VISUAL UPGRADE. We are the Sivir or Sejuani of WoW. Our mechanics may need slight tweaks to keep in line with the fancy stuff of today, but it comes down to that all our spells look bland and haven't been touched in years. Fireball looks like an Imp's Firebolt or a Searing Totem shot. The only spiffy spell we have is Arcane Barrage and MAYBE Frozen Orb. Our armors have no unique animations, our bombs are negligible, our nukes barely exist, and does Combustion even have an animation?

If you want to find the source of decline, it stems from that.

[Imnick]

Combustion makes a little brown explosion, then has virtually the same graphic as Ignite (which you can't really see when not soloing either)

They did update Flamestrike's graphical effect this patch though I think! Or at least, I don't remember the floor effect looking like that before?

[LocNess]

Look, I will say this, and then I will close this thread most likely if people keep going with anecdotal stuff: the Mage class is simply in need of a VISUAL UPGRADE. We are the Sivir or Sejuani of WoW. Our mechanics may need slight tweaks to keep in line with the fancy stuff of today, but it comes down to that all our spells look bland and haven't been touched in years. Fireball looks like an Imp's Firebolt or a Searing Totem shot. The only spiffy spell we have is Arcane Barrage and MAYBE Frozen Orb. Our armors have no unique animations, our bombs are negligible, our nukes barely exist, and does Combustion even have an animation?

If you want to find the source of decline, it stems from that.

I think there is a lot more to the decline than just visuals. Do you really think that the only issue with Mages is their spell animations? The entire expansion has been a shit fest for the class for being clunky and unfun to play, and a majority of the Mages agree with that. This thread can't single-handedly support the idea that Mages need a fix, but it can be used as extra support to the amount we already have.

[fearist]

came in expecting a thread created by the oneandonlyPewPewBlast crying about level 90 talents

left unsatisfied
but yes i do agree we need a visual update on mages. along with trolls. cus thats what i am, a troll mage and i would like to be visually and gameplaylly updated nom'sayin? otherwise... im gunna haf to reroll warlock since theyre fotm still

[Swizzle]

I think there is a lot more to the decline than just visuals. Do you really think that the only issue with Mages is their spell animations? The entire expansion has been a shit fest for the class for being clunky and unfun to play, and a majority of the Mages agree with that. This thread can't single-handedly support the idea that Mages need a fix, but it can be used as extra support to the amount we already have.

When a majority of new players are younger and inclined to gravitate towards things that are more flashy...yes, a majority of the decline comes from lack of visual spark. People leave for many reasons, with the biggest simply and honestly being age and change in life, however flash is a way to draw people in. Look at all the classes that gained players. They all have things that look really really cool. We don't. How do you attract new people to an aging game by showing them the most ancient looking class? Answer: you don't. Alter Time is a cool concept, so are our shields, survivability cooldowns, and bombs. Heck, even parts of the level 90 talents work on paper. The problem everything the Mage class shares is simply from looking like it's 8+ years old. Update the visuals, tweak mechanics slightly, and BOOM, I guarantee you'll see an influx of players.

[Blowmeup]

Id rather have stuff that has a nice flow and doesnt get nerfed every patch but hey thats just me

[Swizzle]

Id rather have stuff that has a nice flow and doesnt get nerfed every patch but hey thats just me

Then any game with constant balance patches isn't for you. There isn't a class in game that doesn't get something nerfed every patch.

[Blowmeup]

Then any game with constant balance patches isn't for you. There isn't a class in game that doesn't get something nerfed every patch.

I came from a spriest since TBC so I can deal with nerfs but the fact that I switched prior to 5.2 I have played a different way 4 different times in one expansion. Arcane Frost Fire and back to arcane. Thats the stuff that is annoying

[Polarthief]

Look, I will say this, and then I will close this thread most likely if people keep going with anecdotal stuff: the Mage class is simply in need of a VISUAL UPGRADE. We are the Sivir or Sejuani of WoW. Our mechanics may need slight tweaks to keep in line with the fancy stuff of today, but it comes down to that all our spells look bland and haven't been touched in years.

Oh Swizzle, you are so silly. Please don't make me get into a debate on what we need >_>;

I'll leave you with this: The fact that Combustion has been changed so many times in this expansion alone is proof of how broken Fire's core is, and that's just a tiiiiiiiiny piece of how clusterfuck Mages are.

[Imnick]

Honestly I enjoy the opportunity to play more than one spec and justify it to my raid group, I don't play Fire Mage I have no loyalty to a single DPS Spec, I just love my class in general.

[Polarthief]

Honestly I enjoy the opportunity to play more than one spec and justify it to my raid group, I don't play Fire Mage I have no loyalty to a single DPS Spec, I just love my class in general.

I'd play all 3 if:

- Arcane wasn't so boring and immobile
- Fire wasn't so boring and clusterfuck stupid (referring to Combustion and scaling)

If all 3 were equal in DPS and the above problems were fixed, I would totally play all of them! I did with most of my other classes :V

Until then, I'll continue having fun killing things by freezing them to death.

[Last Starfighter]

I figured as much. There were some graphs I saw a couple weeks ago where Mages dropped ~4 spots or so from "Most played 90 class" rankings. A lot of people have probably been scared off by our general outcry of 90 talents.

No, it's because blizz has been stroking the warlock schlong this expac. And ppl are eating it up and rerolling.

[Zenny]

Oh come, the level 90 talents were a massive frustration for a lot of players. Sure it's not so bad now with the less then 2 second cast every minute, but remember when we dinged 90 last year? A 6 second channel every 45 seconds! It was fucking retarded.

And yes, I agree with Swizzle as well, visually the Mage class currently looks like shit. Warlocks, Priests, Shamans, all look far far better spell effect wise. We are Mages, damn it! Flinging around flashy effects are right in the description. The only spells that look worth a damn are the following:

1. Frozen Orb.
2. Arcane Barrage.
3. Nether Tempest, (On tons of mobs)
4. Frostfire Bolt. (It's OK)

Fireball, Pyroblast, Frostbolt, Ice Lance, Blizzard, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Explosion and Arcane Blast all look like utter crap. Seriously, if a visual upgrade to much to ask for? Screw those that would moan about "it doesn't feel the same". Cant progress the game if you listen to those stuck in the past.

[Deleted]

To me, that doesn't really matter. The fact that: A. People see L90 talents (and almost everyone who tested them on beta gave negative feedback), B. Warlocks get a massive overhaul and are the new shiny awesome class, and C. Monks. Why not try one? caused enough people from 85 to just drop their Mages completely. Most other classes had very insignificant increases/decreases. DK got a bigger jump due to it not being as new as it used to be, Hunters jumped even further in the lead, Paladins had a slight jump, and Warlocks (NOT surprisingly) had a huge jump, and yet in the expansion that we've had more issues than ever, we have a huge (just under) 3.5% drop. If everyone wants to think this is pure coincidence, feel free, but I'll stick to what I've known this entire expansion.

(Again, this data tells us absolutely nothing about raid representation or true population, nor am I trying to prove anything about that. It's purely the fact that we lost almost 3.5% of us from Cataclysm Level 85 to MoP Level 90 that I'm personally upset about)

Although I i agree that mages have problems I have to knock your head on this.....................

It's no problem to have a hypothesis, but your attitude towards these statistics is all wrong. You have a hypothesis and arn't testing if it's true. NO! you just look at a supporting sources and use that for your argument without testing if the source is valid enough for it. These statistics don't really give the answer but create questions to investigate, the main question being: What could be the cause of this result?
Ussually this requires more statistics to see if certain causes could be correct.

The problem I find with most statistics is that we don't know exactly how/what is measured. And we don't know the active classes being played. Just the level 90 characters. Also there is a certain amount of incorrect measurement. I do have to agree with people that say this.

However. 3,5% aint small amount either with such a massive amount of data. It's also modest to say 3,5%, the ussual big talk is:

• Mages have a 13% decline in the amount of players leveled to 90(misleading big talk)

or a more correct one would be:

• Mages have a 13% decline in the amount of players who leveled from 85 to 90 in pandaria compared to 80 to 85 in Cataclysm. (correct statement)

[Taustin]

It's because most mages went warlock instead.