Which race is the oldest?

[Wyrt]

Not pets, but look what mankind did to canids or w/e.
Over time we groomed them as trusted companions and the Dog in your home protecting you, might have distant heritage to the wolf in the woods, but it's not that anymore.
The Draenei to me at least seem that way anyhow. Who is to say they would be light loving space gypsies, if they were not groomed by the Naaru.

The trolls just kinda grew without that kind of assistance rite?
If that is the case then Imho, the troll is like the wolf, and has a stronger link to it's ancestors then the goat, so it must be older. ( Not that I am totally horde biased or anything :P)

Trolls had the loa. Basically every race has some kind of demigod.

[Aquamonkey]

And the trolls are yet older. Trolls are one of Azeroths native races, which means that they were there before the Titans ever arrived.

You are completely misunderstanding what the Blues said. They didn't say the Trolls predate the Titans ever coming to Azeroth. They said the Trolls predate the Titans/Old Gods war.

Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Gods were the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir. Due to the Old Gods' war against the titans, as well as the extensive terraforming that followed the war's conclusion, records of what races existed before even the Old Gods' arrival have likely been lost forever. (Source)

The Titans were on Azeroth making earthen before the Old Gods came. The Blues said there's no info on races before the Old Gods. So there's nothing saying the Trolls were there before the Titans first came.

[Deleted]

Elves are descendant from Trolls.

That is a vague speculation inside the game, not a confirmed fact.

[Wyrt]

You are completely misunderstanding what the Blues said. They didn't say the Trolls predate the Titans every coming to Azeroth. They said the Trolls predate the Titans/Old Gods war.

There was likely some races on Azeroth. The Ultimate Visual Guide makes note that the Titans would empower the primitive races on the planets they order to watch over their stuff. Though, in Azeroth's case I think they empowered the dragons.

[Aquamonkey]

There was likely some races on Azeroth. The Ultimate Visual Guide makes note that the Titans would empower the primitive races on the planets they order to watch over their stuff. Though, in Azeroth's case I think they empowered the dragons.

Yes, but the Blues say there's no info on what native races were on Azeroth before the Old Gods, which came after the Titans made Earthen on Azeroth.

[Gozzu]

You are completely misunderstanding what the Blues said. They didn't say the Trolls predate the Titans ever coming to Azeroth. They said the Trolls predate the Titans/Old Gods war.

Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Gods were the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir. Due to the Old Gods' war against the titans, as well as the extensive terraforming that followed the war's conclusion, records of what races existed before even the Old Gods' arrival have likely been lost forever. (Source)

That clearly states that the trolls were there before the titans arrived?
We do know that the titans arent the creators of all life, with the 2 creator vs big bang theories out there, and to assume that life would evolve by itself as it did in reality isnt a very long stretch. We also know that the Titans came to Azeroth twice, but the second time was after the Curse of Flesh had kicked in.

[Aquamonkey]

That clearly states that the trolls were there before the titans arrived?

That's the second time the Titans came... when they came to deal with the Old Gods. The Titans were on Azeroth before the Old Gods. The Blues made no confirmation that the trolls were around before the Titans' first arrival which was before the Old Gods: "records of what races existed before even the Old Gods' arrival have likely been lost forever." (from that same post)

[Gozzu]

Yes, but the Blues say there's no info on what native races were on Azeroth before the Old Gods, which came after the Titans made Earthen on Azeroth.

This is bs, we dont know the timeline here. We dont know if they ordered the planets first and the Old Gods came later, or the contrary. There is lore telling both the stories, and we will simply have to wait and see what Blizz says about it.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the second time the Titans came... when they came to deal with the Old Gods. The Titans were on Azeroth before the Old Gods. The Blues made no confirmation that the trolls were around before the Titans' first arrival which was before the Old Gods: "records of what races existed before even the Old Gods' arrival have likely been lost forever." (from that same post)

We. Dont. Know. This. This is not canon, simply because there is lore telling both the stories, so stop using it as an arguement.

[Raptor With a Saber]

Tauren blizzard confirmed it a while ago, They were even around during the time of the old gods/before titans

[Aquamonkey]

This is bs, we dont know the timeline here. We dont know if they ordered the planets first and the Old Gods came later, or the contrary. There is lore telling both the stories, and we will simply have to wait and see what Blizz says about it.

- - - Updated - - -

We. Dont. Know. This. This is not canon, simply because there is lore telling both the stories, so stop using it as an arguement.

Abedneum yells: Accessing prehistoric data... retrieved. In the beginning earthen were created to--
Brann Bronzebeard yells: Right, right... I know that the earthen were made of stone to shape the deep reaches o' the world. But what about the anomalies? Matrix non-stabilizing and whatnot.
Abedneum yells: Accessing. In the early stages of its development cycle Azeroth suffered infection by parasitic, necrophotic symbiotes.
Brann Bronzebeard yells: Necro-what? Speak bloody common will ya?
Abedneum yells: Designation: Old Gods. Old Gods rendered all systems, including Earthen defenseless in order to facilitate assimilation. This matrix destabilization has been termed the Curse of Flesh. Effects of destabilization increased over time.
Brann Bronzebeard yells: Old Gods eh? So they zapped the Earthen with this Curse of Flesh. And then what?
Kaddrak yells: Accessing. Creators arrived to extirpate symbiotic infection. Assessment revealed that Old God infestation had grown malignant. Excising parasites would result in loss of host--
Brann Bronzebeard yells: If they killed the Old Gods Azeroth would have been destroyed.
Kaddrak yells: Correct. Creators neutralized parasitic threat and contained it within the host. Forge of Wills and other systems were instituted to create new Earthen. Safeguards were implemented and protectors were appointed.

Titans came and made earthen. Then Old Gods came and infected earthen. Trolls appeared. Then Titans came back and defeated the Old Gods.

[Gozzu]

Abedneum yells: Accessing prehistoric data... retrieved. In the beginning earthen were created to--
Brann Bronzebeard yells: Right, right... I know that the earthen were made of stone to shape the deep reaches o' the world. But what about the anomalies? Matrix non-stabilizing and whatnot.
Abedneum yells: Accessing. In the early stages of its development cycle Azeroth suffered infection by parasitic, necrophotic symbiotes.
Brann Bronzebeard yells: Necro-what? Speak bloody common will ya?
Abedneum yells: Designation: Old Gods. Old Gods rendered all systems, including Earthen defenseless in order to facilitate assimilation. This matrix destabilization has been termed the Curse of Flesh. Effects of destabilization increased over time.
Brann Bronzebeard yells: Old Gods eh? So they zapped the Earthen with this Curse of Flesh. And then what?
Kaddrak yells: Accessing. Creators arrived to extirpate symbiotic infection. Assessment revealed that Old God infestation had grown malignant. Excising parasites would result in loss of host--
Brann Bronzebeard yells: If they killed the Old Gods Azeroth would have been destroyed.
Kaddrak yells: Correct. Creators neutralized parasitic threat and contained it within the host. Forge of Wills and other systems were instituted to create new Earthen. Safeguards were implemented and protectors were appointed.

Titans came and made earthen. Then Old Gods came and infected earthen. Trolls appeared. Then Titans came back and defeated the Old Gods.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926856047

You link one part of story, and dismiss the other?

[Aquamonkey]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2926856047

You link one part of story, and dismiss the other?

What other part of the story? You just linked a random thread with some people making the same wrong assertions that were disproved with what I've linked.

[Gozzu]

What other part of the story? You just linked a random thread with some people making the same wrong assertions that were disproved with what I've linked.

Unaware of Sargeras' mission to undo their countless works, the Titans continued to move from world to world, shaping and ordering each planet as they saw fit. Along their journey they happened upon a small world that its inhabitants would later name Azeroth. As the Titans made their way across the primordial landscape, they encountered a number of hostile elemental beings. These elementals, who worshipped a race of unfathomably evil beings known only as the Old Gods, vowed to drive the Titans back and keep their world inviolate from the invaders' metallic touch.

The Pantheon, disturbed by the Old Gods' penchant for evil, waged war upon the elementals and their dark masters. The Old Gods' armies were led by the most powerful elemental lieutenants: Ragnaros the Firelord, Therazane the Stonemother, Al'Akir the Windlord, and Neptulon the Tidehunter. Their chaotic forces raged across the face of the world and clashed with the colossal Titans. Though the elementals were powerful beyond mortal comprehension, their combined forces could not stop the mighty Titans. One by one, the elemental lords fell, and their forces dispersed.

The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the four evil gods far beneath the surface of the world. Without the Old Gods' power to keep their raging spirits bound to the physical world, the elementals were banished to an abyssal plane, where they would contend with one another for all eternity. With the elementals' departure, nature calmed, and the world settled into a peaceful harmony. The Titans saw that the threat was contained and set to work.

The Titans empowered a number of races to help them fashion the world. To help them carve out the fathomless caverns beneath the earth, the Titans created the dwarf-like earthen from magical, living stone. To help them dredge out the seas and lift the land from the sea floor, the Titans created the immense but gentle sea giants. For many ages the Titans moved and shaped the earth, until at last there remained one perfect continent. At the continent's center, the Titans crafted a lake of scintillating energies. The lake, which they named the Well of Eternity, was to be the fount of life for the world. Its potent energies would nurture the bones of the world and empower life to take root in the land's rich soil. Over time, plants, trees, monsters, and creatures of every kind began to thrive on the primordial continent. As twilight fell on the final day of their labors, the Titans named the continent Kalimdor: "land of eternal starlight".

Its not a random thread, its a thread filled to the brim with quotes going all different directions about this, and my point was that we just dont know yet.
The devs havent made it clear, and even your quote could be taken quite a few ways.

[Aquamonkey]

[antiquated WC3 lore]

Its not a random thread, its a thread filled to the brim with quotes going all different directions about this, and my point was that we just dont know yet.
The devs havent made it clear, and even your quote could be taken quite a few ways.

Yes, lore that was written for WC3... You're going to use that to trump lore that is 6 years more recent? Sometimes lore gets retconned.

[Nadiru]

Age of races in Warcraft, as best as I can suss out:

Old Gods > Titans = Voidwalkers > Nazrethim > Dragons > Trolls = Qiraji = Mantid = Nerubian > Earthen = Mechagnomes = Mogu > Draenai > Pandaren > Saurok = Jinyu = Hozen > Vrykul = Ogre > Orc > Night Elf > High Elf > Tauren = Centaurs = Dwarves = Gnomes = Troggs > Human > Blood Elf > Goblin(?)

[Darmalus]

Either Draenei or Troll, none of the others are even in the running. The trolls were around when the titans arrived, and Velen himself is older than every non-troll civilization on Azeroth.

It's hard to say for certain, but if I had to pick I'd say Draenei.

[Gozzu]

Yes, lore that was written for WC3... You're going to use that to trump lore that is 6 years more recent?

It's not trumping when we still JUST DONT KNOW. There have been a thousand retcons, and theres more every year on this subject. Quotes go all different directions on this subject, and whatever you may come up with is just speculation. Even your own quote i'd say tells us that its the first arrival of the titans.

http://wowpedia.org/War_between_the_...d_the_Old_Gods

[Yarathir]

Oh then yea, if they are the original culture then sure, they could be hella older then the trolls.
Idk I would argue the Naaru mutation = not the same, but that is nitpicking i guess.

As I recall, it went something like:



Eredar of Argus -- > Sargeras's offer for them to join the Burning Legion and become empowered -- > Man'ari Eredar.


The Eredar of Argus that did not want to join the Burning Legion remained the same, but were sort of saved by the Naaru and then became the Draenei. Mostly because they felt that their brethren (the ones who took the offer to become Man'ari) soiled and filthied the name 'Eredar'. So they left that name behind. In terms of species, the Draenei are still Eredar, but they just renamed their species because of the name Eredar having become more of an insult due to the corruption involved when it came to the Man'ari.



Now I'm not sure what effect the Naaru had on the now-Draenei. I think they're largely the same. I don't really think the Naaru made them mutate in any way. As far as I can see, they just gave them new capabilities, not physiological alterations.



To answer the question:


On Azeroth: Trolls and Tauren, no doubt.


In general: Draenei or Titans/Old Gods (that we know of)


Might be that there are a lot of other advances civilizations out there that have existed longer than the Draenei and maybe even the Titans. The Great Dark Beyond, like our Universe, is probably pretty huge.



That reminds me.. if the Titans didn't create the Trolls, could it be that the Old Gods did? Or was it just evolution? The reason I ponder that is because Titans seem to represent Order and mechanical structures, whereas the Old Gods represent Chaos and organic structures. Evolution itself is chaotic, and we've seen that Old Gods have the strength to warp certain creatures into fleshy beings (Curse of Flesh: Iron Vrykul, Mechagnome, and Earthen Dwarves as victims) so it stands to reason that the Old Gods might have had a handtentacle in the creation of creatures that were originally non-Titanic/organic.



This theory would be strengthened by the fact that Old Gods are made out to be the Antithesis to the Titans in every way, and we know the Titans created the races that were mechanical of origin. I'm fairly certain there could be some truth to this.

[Gozzu]

As I recall, it went something like:



Eredar of Argus -- > Sargeras's offer for them to join the Burning Legion and become empowered -- > Man'ari Eredar.


The Eredar of Argus that did not want to join the Burning Legion remained the same, but were sort of saved by the Naaru and then became the Draenei. Mostly because they felt that their brethren (the ones who took the offer to become Man'ari) soiled and filthied the name 'Eredar'. So they left that name behind. In terms of species, the Draenei are still Eredar, but they just renamed their species because of the name Eredar having become more of an insult due to the corruption involved when it came to the Man'ari.



Now I'm not sure what effect the Naaru had on the now-Draenei. I think they're largely the same. I don't really think the Naaru made them mutate in any way. As far as I can see, they just gave them new capabilities, not physiological alterations.

I'd say they changed a bit. Look at Velen, and compare him to another male. Not only is he alot bigger, like lorecharacters usually are, but hes slimmer and got different proportions.

[Aquamonkey]

It's not trumping when we still JUST DONT KNOW. There have been a thousand retcons, and theres more every year on this subject. Quotes go all different directions on this subject, and whatever you may come up with is just speculation. Even your own quote i'd say tells us that its the first arrival of the titans.

http://wowpedia.org/War_between_the_...d_the_Old_Gods

Quotes don't go all over the place. Tribunal and Ask CDev 2 line up fine. WC3 is the only part that contradicts it and that stuff is 6 years out of date.

Tribunal explicitly states that the earthen were on Azeroth before the Old Gods and the Titans came later to neutralize them. Ask Cdev2 says nothing about that being the Titans' first coming to Azeroth. But it does support the Tribunal by saying the Titans "arrived to subdue the Old Gods" and that the Old Gods are not native to Azeroth.