Do you think Stance of the Gladiator will successfully allow prot to be viable dps?

[Requiel]

Hey I'ma piggyback on this thread instead of making a whole new one since this ones all about dat gladiator stance. Does anybody know if there will be shields that have dps bonus stats. Like how peices could have bonus armor and such?

There are a few shields that have two secondary stats and some that have one secondary plus armor

[Artorius]

Which is why they're nerfing tank damage (removing Vengeance and making it a flat 50-70% of DPS' output), as well as making you unable to tank or be extremely beefy in Gladiator Stance (Which cannot be changed in combat, and replaces Battle Stance.)

In other words:
If you enter combat in Defensive Stance, you are a tank, you cannot change to Gladiator Stance.
If you enter combat in Gladiator Stance, you are a DPS, and you cannot change to Defensive Stance to begin tanking.

Glad stance replaces defensive no?

[Deleted]

Might need to read that better. Can't switch stances in battle - which means they'll need to choose between -30% damage OR the DPS.

Although, it's worthy to note that as of now, Celestalon said they plan on balancing it to be on par with Arms and Fury. It won't break PvP though.

My bad but still you have shield barrier and block chance as a great defensive value while getting more CC and dps. I think it will be either OP or super Nerfed ;/ Maybe they are preparing to make a class quest for warrior in WoD similar to green fire.

[Requiel]

Glad stance replaces defensive no?

It was changed so it replaces battle stance so tanks could benefit from picking that talent

- - - Updated - - -

My bad but still you have shield barrier and block chance as a great defensive value while getting more CC and dps. I think it will be either OP or super Nerfed ;/ Maybe they are preparing to make a class quest for warrior in WoD similar to green fire.

It doesn't have more CC then any other warrior

[papajohn4]

My bad but still you have shield barrier and block chance as a great defensive value while getting more CC and dps. I think it will be either OP or super Nerfed ;/ Maybe they are preparing to make a class quest for warrior in WoD similar to green fire.

But it does not have Recklessness (no burst damage..). So you have sustained DPS with no burst periods but you have access to some defensive CDs. Block chance is irrelevant as you are not supposed to tank...and bad shits on the ground are not block - able. Generally, I always wanted a Sword and Board DPS class.. I hope Blizzard will deliver. I would also love the same thing for Paladin too

[Sal the Shieldhog]

My bad but still you have shield barrier and block chance as a great defensive value while getting more CC and dps. I think it will be either OP or super Nerfed ;/ Maybe they are preparing to make a class quest for warrior in WoD similar to green fire.

Honestly, it's like everyone who comes in here saying this every page or so hasn't read the patch notes. Not just you, but everyone >.>

Gladiator's Resolve (Protection) - Increases the damage reduction provided by Defensive Stance by 5%.
Also allows you to forgo your defensive role, and instead focus only on offensive capabilities, by replacing Battle Stance with Gladiator Stance. Gladiator Stance - A dauntless combat stance. Increases physical damage dealt by 20%, and replaces your Shield Block with Shield Charge. You cannot change into or out of this stance during combat.
Passive
Shield Charge
20 Rage, 10 yd range, Instant, 15sec recharge, Requires Shields
Raise your shield and charge a short distance to your target, increasing the damage of Shield Slam, Revenge, and Heroic Strike by 30% for 6 sec. Maximum 2 charges.

It replaces Battle Stance, stances can't be changed in combat, SBarrier is used for damage, and Shield Block is replaced. Literally, they aren't tanks in Gladiator Stance, and they can't change to tanks in-combat. There's almost no disadvantages to it, it's nearly perfect as it is right now, all it needs is tuning.

You forget that Gladiators will not have DPS CDs, only defensives - so no burst. So they're already at a disadvanatge compared to Fury and Arms warriors. ALl they're likely to get is a few defensives (Last STand

[Deleted]

Ehh, i can live without the 15% reck.
Protection will have good short bursts in pvp as long as Shield Charge sticks, the 10 yard range gap closer will be absolutely incredible, if the spec sticks exactly like it is now, i predict it will be viable in pvp, maybe not arena but thats fine, just being bg viable is fine enough for many players.

[Artorius]

Shield block is not irrelevant if it still increases shield slam damage, have not played prot since wotlk so i don't really know if it still work that way...

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Shield block is not irrelevant if it still increases shield slam damage, have not played prot since wotlk so i don't really know if it still work that way...

Shield Block is replaced by Shield Charge.

Shield Barrier will be the one used to increase Shield Slam damage as a Gladiator Warrior.

[Requiel]

Shield Block is replaced by Shield Charge.

Shield Barrier will be the one used to increase Shield Slam damage as a Gladiator Warrior.

Sbar doesn't increase the damage of SS since the change with shield charge

[Artorius]

This is sad.

[Bookofblade]

This is sad.

because?

10 char

[Artorius]

because?

10 char

Good memories of Shield slamming with block up, that was indeed funny using dps T10...

[Bookofblade]

Good memories of Shield slamming with block up, that was indeed funny using dps T10...

then why is this sad?

maybe I am missing something but i cant decipher at all what point your trying to make

[Cyclonus-WOW]

They originally had a bunch of stuff listed around blizzcon that talked about shield barrier being used to increase damage, but since, we haven't seen anything. I think that was already changed. They commited to tuning this so it would keep up with Fury and Arms regardless of the missing Execute Perk and the new Recklessness.

[Zabannith]

In all honesty if this does end up being on par with fury and arms , I may retire my ret pally ,Im frankly tired of how blizz has historically treated rets and this would be a very welcome change honestly it does not need to be better than arms or fury .. just on par with them, give the players the choice of how they want to play instead of shoehorning them into the best dps spec the class has

[Artorius]

then why is this sad?

maybe I am missing something but i cant decipher at all what point your trying to make

Maybe because i'm not trying to make any point?

[Stonecloak]

I am looking forward to this talent.. i always wanted to be a sword & shield dps.. why wouldn't it make sense?? .. also why do some people fight the idea.. makes no sense to fight something like that or hoping that it will suck so much that DPS wont take it in raids.. i mean come on.. this is a good thing

Fuck balance.. let's have some fun.

My thoughts exactly, and who cares if it's on par with other dps specs. Also who cares if it acts like a forth spec. The more variety the better, and sword and board as a dps is long overdue imo.

[CollisionTD]

I've implemented 99% of fury/arms changes and 80%~ of prot/gladiator for WoD simcraft.

Here's what I can tell you so far:

1: At level 100 in 580 equal gear, gladiator stance dps is around 10% lower than TG Fury. Optimizations with the action list could make up this difference.
2: It's not very dynamic. I'm getting an arms vibe while messing around with the action list, as in I can shift things around quite a bit and only lose 2-3% dps.
3: AoE/cleave kinda suck right now.


Here's the extremely early action list for gladiator that I've put together, It'll very likely look completely different in a week but I thought I'd give you an idea of how it's shaping out. Notably I haven't done crap with cooldown timing other than making sure the ability is used.

actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/berserking
actions+=/arcane_torrent
actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=target.health.pct<20
actions+=/shield_charge,if=buff.shield_charge.down
actions+=/heroic_strike,if=buff.ultimatum.up|(buff.shield_charge.up&rage>50&target.health.pct>20)
actions+=/bloodbath,if=enabled
actions+=/heroic_leap
actions+=/shield_slam,if=buff.shield_charge.up|cooldown.shield_charge.remains>3|rage<30
actions+=/execute,if=rage>50
actions+=/dragon_roar
actions+=/revenge,if=buff.shield_charge.up|cooldown.shield_charge.remains>2|rage<30
actions+=/thunder_clap
actions+=/devastate,if=cooldown.shield_slam.remains>1

[Deleted]

1: At level 100 in 580 equal gear, gladiator stance dps is around 10% lower than TG Fury. Optimizations with the action list could make up this difference.

Is this with the current abilities or datamined WoD modifiers etc? It sounds shockingly good at first glance but with prot already aiming for to do 75% of what fury/arms is capable of it's ony 20% increase while not capable of actively tanking.