550 ilvl still not enough for N Garrosh? *rant*

[Normie]

...but I am. When I quit in August I was already on the secrets quest, and now its almost finished. I've only ever had one burden on TI lol.

I guess you need to read up a little, because two are guaranteed per character.

[Louis CK]

You know what?

5 players killed Gary. Yes, 5 players and for a while ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6fTg4bGCYE

If people are asking for ivl550 to join them, then you should know that they suck(unless they simple just want to farm with no issues. Again, why would someone farm normal with 550, instead of heroic?).

Just tell them, that 5 players can handle, what they are up to. Then they should realize, how bad they actually are.

Well there's the answer. Just tell them someone 5 manned Garrosh and they'll instantly down him.

Or better yet, just grab four people from trade and go at it. Seems reasonable to me.

Great post, thanks for the useful information.

[Normie]

If people are asking for ivl550 to join them, then you should know that they suck(unless they simple just want to farm with no issues. Again, why would someone farm normal with 550, instead of heroic?).

Because it takes an exceptional amount of skill and a perverse strategy to 5-man Garrosh, but with moderate skill and practice and a lot of gear you can farm your heirlooms and tier tokens without stress.

I don't know where people come up with insane "reasoning" like yours or think that it's applicable outside the confines of their own skulls.

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Great post, thanks for the useful information.

inorite?...

[Deleted]

Reminds me of the old Kara runs.


"LFDPS, Must have T5 for Kara, Full run"

So dumb.

[Tradu]

EU Openraid never has groups that require 520+ for flex. Oqueue does, but they usually consist of wiping on the first boss of that particular wing then disbanding, which is why I guess people want a higher level. Which some struggle to get because of the earlier reason; its a vicious cycle really.

Alliance run for SoO flex 1+2, 520 ilevel requirement
Trusmoov does those runs every week, and I *believe* Fistsneezer is supposed to be doing a Horde equivalent on another day.

Horde SoO normal, leader has decent reputation, 530 ilevel requirement
So there are certainly runs for lesser geared people, and Kalepp already plugged his(very good) SoO25N runs on Alliance with a 540 ilevel requirement.
OpenRaid chat probably has higher requirements than pre-planned runs.

I've never tried oqueue, because I hated the UI and the 9001 useless things it does beyond the matchmaking thing, so I have no idea how well that works.

[Deleted]

Well there's the answer. Just tell them someone 5 manned Garrosh and they'll instantly down him.

Or better yet, just grab four people from trade and go at it. Seems reasonable to me.

Great post, thanks for the useful information.

If 5 players can kill him, 25 people with ivl550 would be more than enough. Anything else demonstrates the lack of knowledge. That was my point.

People SUCK if they ask 550+ full group on normal. I rather make my own group with players without relying on ilvl, but skills.

[Tradu]

...but I am. When I quit in August I was already on the secrets quest, and now its almost finished. I've only ever had one burden on TI lol.

I'm not sure what you're doing with your Timeless Coins, but the fastest way to get Burdens(in my experience) is to spend your coins on gambling(buy keys from the monkey guy and open boxes). You get a guaranteed Burden from the Blazing(something fiery-sounding, anyway) Chest at the Ordon Sanctuary(the western courtyard, which is quite easily accessible without the cloak) and from one of the Shaohao rep quests.

[Louis CK]

If 5 players can kill him. 25 people with 550 would be more than enough. Anything else demonstrates the lack of knowledge. That was my point.

People SUCK if they ask 550+ full raid on normal. I rather make my own group with players not relying on ilvl, but skills.

Oh I got your point. It was just an ignorant point.

And the people asking 550+ aren't the ones who suck, it's the 550+ DPS that pull 100k, the 550+ tanks who don't know what active mitigation is, and the 550+ healers who think they can only cast one heal every 15 seconds. All of which I encounter on a weekly basis of pugging extra people for our raids.

LFR and Flex give players the illusion that they know how to raid. Had a tank pug with us just last week who kept wiping us on norushen because he didn't know what the purple orbs were but insisted he "knew the fight". And another tank that we had to teach what active mitigation was because he kept summoning parasites on klaxxi. Both of which were over 555.

[Deleted]

Oh I got your point. It was just an ignorant point.

And the people asking 550+ aren't the ones who suck, it's the 550+ DPS that pull 100k, the 550+ tanks who don't know what active mitigation is, and the 550+ healers who think they can only cast one heal every 15 seconds. All of which I encounter on a weekly basis of pugging extra people for our raids.

LFR and Flex give players the illusion that they know how to raid. Had a tank pug with us just last week who kept wiping us on norushen because he didn't know what the purple orbs were but insisted he "knew the fight". And another tank that we had to teach what active mitigation was because he kept summoning parasites on klaxxi. Both of which were over 555.

But here is the issue:

If you invite someone with 550+(because you think, higher itemlevel, equals better performance), it will be you that sucked in first place. And it's actually players like you im talking about.

It's not about spamming chat with "LFM X-ilvl for X raid", that's just silly and bad leadership. Raidleaders job is to find trustworthy people, not checking out ilvls(because as you see, 5 players can beat Gary on normal).

[Tradu]

But here is the issue:

If you invite someone with 550+(because you think, higher item level, equals better performance), it will be you that sucked in first place. And it's actually players like you im talking about.

It's not about spamming chat with "LFM X-ilvl for X raid", that's just silly and bad leadership. Raidleaders job is to find trustworthy people, not checking out ilvls(because as you see, 5 players can beat Gary on normal).

And how do you judge their trustworthiness? In PuGs, the leader has to rely on overgearing compensating for possible lack of skill. And stop with the Garrosh 5man example. I'm pretty damn sure that was a group of 5 guildies who significantly overgeared AND "outskilled" the boss, NOT something your average PuG would be capable of.

[Notdev]

Hate to be one of those guys but at this point if I'm pugging Garrosh, it's only with an overgeared group. Dealing with multiple empowered whirlwinds and 2-3+ empowered MCs in phase 3 is too much for most pugs. Overgearing allows you to employ strategies like stacking in phase 1/2, solo tanking, killing him before the second transition or at least before the first empowered whirlwind, etc. Generally making the fight even more of a pushover.

If someone has the gear but isn't performing up to par, they just get replaced.

I wiped close to 100 times to down Normal Garrosh back September/October. Not interesting in wiping several times while waiting for pugs to learn mechanics.

[Louis CK]

But here is the issue:

If you invite someone with 550+(because you think, higher item level, equals better performance), it will be you that sucked in first place. And it's actually players like you im talking about.

It's not about spamming chat with "LFM X-ilvl for X raid", that's just silly and bad leadership. Raidleaders job is to find trustworthy people, not checking out ilvls(because as you see, 5 players can beat Gary on normal).

People like me, huh? Awesome. And yet not one person I've invited to my guild had been over 544 ilvl initially, and these people outperform almost every 560+ person I take for pugs. You may have the time to let your group wait while you do a full interview with every potential pug that you invite, yet I've got to go with the only indication I have available: ilvl. And as stated in an earlier post that I doubt you bothered to read, it's one of the benefits of Openraid over OQ is that I CAN occasionally find those lower ilvl people that I'll take over higher ilvl when they show intelligence.

But yeah, it's just "players like me". Fuck me, right?

Your posts are bathed in ignorance.

[Deleted]

And how do you judge their trustworthiness? In PuGs, the leader has to rely on overgearing compensating for possible lack of skill. And stop with the Garrosh 5man example. I'm pretty damn sure that was a group of 5 guildies who significantly overgeared AND "outskilled" the boss, NOT something your average PuG would be capable of.

Mate, say the 5-man group was overgeared. But why shouldnt 10 or 15 players not be able to beat Gary on normal. Or what about 25 players with ilvl 530-540?

As you see, something is really wrong. Raidleaders requires ivl550 geared people, only to get dissapointed, because it's them that sucked in first place. They dont thier job, they only spam the chat.

[Louis CK]

Mate, say the 5-man group was overgeared. But why shouldnt 10 or 15 players not be able to beat Gary on normal. Or what about 25 players with ilvl 530-540?

As you see, something is really wrong. Raidleaders requires ivl550 geared people, only to get dissapointed, because it's them that sucked in first place. They dont thier job, they only spam the chat.

You keep saying bullshit like this, but unless it was you in the 5 man group stop using am example you know nothing about.

Jesus lol.

[Deleted]

People like me, huh? Awesome. And yet not one person I've invited to my guild had been over 544 ilvl initially, and these people outperform almost every 560+ person I take for pugs. You may have the time to let your group wait while you do a full interview with every potential pug that you invite, yet I've got to go with the only indication I have available: ilvl. And as stated in an earlier post that I doubt you bothered to read, it's one of the benefits of Openraid over OQ is that I CAN occasionally find those lower ilvl people that I'll take over higher ilvl when they show intelligence.

But yeah, it's just "players like me". Fuck me, right?

Your posts are bathed in ignorance.

Im sorry, it was nothing personal. Im just talking about the issues, both you and I face.

Im more than dedicated to do the best i can, but no one gives me the fucking chance(just like the OP). Meanwhile, raidleaders went chat spam, just to check iLvls and fail in raid(just because they focus on iLvl).

It is not about iLvl, but better organization. That is what im talking about.

[Tradu]

Mate, say the 5-man group was overgeared. But why shouldnt 10 or 15 players not be able to beat Gary on normal. Or what about 25 players with ilvl 530-540?

As you see, something is really wrong. Raidleaders requires ivl550 geared people, only to get dissapointed, because it's them that sucked in first place. They dont thier job, they only spam the chat.

The 5man group did it on 10man, and that was a pre-planned "stunt", just to prove it can be done. I have no idea why you keep going back to that, it has nothing to do with PuGs or a PuG's ability to complete or even under-man it. You have some kind of warped idea of what a PuG is. The leader doesn't have time to read through an application from each person who wants to join, PuGs are just a group of random people who can't trust eachother to be any good at the game, so they rely on overgearing stuff. Does that always work? Of course not, but it's better than going with people with less gear who are just as likely to be bad.

[Daez]

It was my understanding that all of the legendary cloak can be done in LFR. So, its still possible to do. You are mostly complaining about time, but this version of the game is most likely here to stay until December (they might throw in a filler raid). So, if you can't get in without your legendary cloak then get your legendary cloak.

However, I completely feel your pain on making requirements that require you to have the actual content you are looking for the PUG for on farm to begin with. I think you need to understand how much pressure goes into creating a PUG and knowing that the first wipe will probably be the end of it. They go out of their way to stack the deck to attempt to avoid such things.

Add that to the fact that you are a dps, and there are 90% more dps than tanks and healers and each raid requires tanks and healers then dps and you have an even bigger problem. If you want to raid more often then pick a role that is actually sought after. DPS line up in mass for PUGs and you simply choose the best ones.

[Tradu]

Im sorry, it was nothing personal. Im just talking about the issues, both you and I face.

Im more than dedicated to do the best i can, but no one gives me the fucking chance(just like the OP). Meanwhile, raidleaders went chat spam, just to check iLvls and fail in raid(just because they focus on iLvl).

It is not about iLvl, but better organization. That is what im talking about.

If you want better organization, join a guild or a more organized PuG(OpenRaid for example). PuGs are clearly not for you.

[Louis CK]

Im sorry, it was nothing personal. Im just talking about the issues, both you and I face.

Im more than dedicated to do the best i can, but no one gives me the fucking chance(just like the OP). Meanwhile, raidleaders went chat spam, just to check iLvls and fail in raid(just because they focus on iLvl).

It is not about iLvl, but better organization. That is what im talking about.

I don't disagree with this. From a PUG standpoint, it sucks when there's ignorant people who believe ILVL = skill, but from a raid leader standpoint, I don't have time to pull in every random person that says "540 ilvl but im gud i promise". But most raid leaders will give a chance if you show yourself to speak intelligently (hell, i started doing flex on all my toons at 500ish ilvl simply because I know how to convince a raid leader I'm worth my weight). As far as Normal goes, I started my own group and have mainly recruited returning, under geared players who have proven themselves to be intelligent, and now prove themselves weekly in our runs. Recruited a ret pally a couple weeks ago at around 540ish ilvl, performed wonderfully and continues to do so now that he's got more gear and his cloak. Same with one of our originals who was 530something, still has no cloak (this week hopefully) and performs wonderfully.

Hell, if you're Horde and would like to show what you've got, you can add me. We can discuss it and maybe you can even hop in with us tonight.

[Deleted]

The 5man group did it on 10man, and that was a pre-planned "stunt", just to prove it can be done. I have no idea why you keep going back to that, it has nothing to do with PuGs or a PuG's ability to complete or even under-man it. You have some kind of warped idea of what a PuG is. The leader doesn't have time to read through an application from each person who wants to join, PuGs are just a group of random people who can't trust eachother to be any good at the game, so they rely on overgearing stuff. Does that always work? Of course not, but it's better than going with people with less gear who are just as likely to be bad.

If the raidleader wont take his time, to do the organization instead of spamming the chat(because he expects higher iLvl equals better performance and everything is perfect), then he deserves the playerbase who pulls 100k DPS as iLvl 550.

Do you agree?

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Hell, if you're Horde and would like to show what you've got, you can add me. We can discuss it and maybe you can even hop in with us tonight.

I really appreciate it, thank you. But i went PvP(raiding is not for me anylonger).