Do you agree "if you don't raid, you don't need raid gear"?

[Freaknsweet]

They are the kind of people who buy Grand theft auto.

Never progress the story at all

And put in cheat codes for the fastest cars and tanks just to roll around and get 5 stars before you die.

You know... 15 year olds.

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But thing is, quests actually require you pay attention. So, that makes sense

Heroic raiders are the kind of people who don't have jobs and no life so they have more time to raid. I can make stupid assumptions as well.

[Issalice]

If you don't raid you don't need the stats. But some people would like to get the gear for transmog purposes. The LFR recolors allowed that, so it is a shame to see them go in my opinion.

[Deleted]

You are just going to do Normal (it's like current flex) via Premades.

It will take you just as long as LFR and you get better gear!

Then you'll have to find premades, which is a hassle in and of itself. The point is that there was/is nothing wrong with opening up the LFR tool, pressing a button and then just waiting. Nothing. I've yet to see an argument explaining how I destroy the hardcore raider's fun with my little LFR playtime. I don't influence their game time, and I don't see why they have to get angry with me and my playstyle - easy though it obviously is.

[cFortyfive]

Timeless gear is entirely fine in terms of relative strength against normal enemies so yes of course I agree.

[Yuyuli]

Then you'll have to find premades, which is a hassle in and of itself. The point is that there was/is nothing wrong with opening up the LFR tool, pressing a button and then just waiting. Nothing. I've yet to see an argument explaining how I destroy the hardcore raider's fun with my little LFR playtime. I don't influence their game time, and I don't see why they have to get angry with me and my playstyle - easy though it obviously is.

You clearly never used oqueue.

[Grym]

I've yet to see an argument explaining how I destroy the hardcore raider's fun with my little LFR playtime. I don't influence their game time, and I don't see why they have to get angry with me and my playstyle - easy though it obviously is.

Because everything is life is relative.

How rare something is, depends on how many people have it. When everyone and their grandmother has something, it becomes not rare and worthless. Value goes up when it is less common, and eventually more rare.

Less people in tier will make them more rare, therefore in their mind worth more. When everyone has it, it becomes something common that not worth happy about.

That is why some of the semi hardcore players want the lower rank people unable to get the same items, achievements, and even want them removed for the next tier. Whereas the VERY hardcore don't really care about it, because they know what they have is more rare than everyone else's anyway.

[Deleted]

You clearly never used oqueue.

I have. Still a larger hassle than the LFR tool, which, again, there was no problem with whatsoever.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Why is this a question? Isn't that how it works? You raid you get raid gear, you don't you don't get raid gear?

Why are 144 people disagreeing with a dumb statement like this?

[Deleted]

"When everyone and their grandmother has something, it becomes not rare and worthless."

And that's exactly what's stupid. If I worked hard and bought a sweet car, that car is in absolutely no way at all diminished by the fact that everyone gets handed a free smart car. My car is still awesome. No one has taken my car from me, they just received a free, shittier car than what I worked hard for. Why do other people not feel the same way? Why is their car magically worse just because other people got a free smartcar? There's no logical reason why they should care.

[Deleted]

I completely agree, because its pure common sense.

[TheRickyB]

They are the kind of people who buy Grand theft auto.

Never progress the story at all

And put in cheat codes for the fastest cars and tanks just to roll around and get 5 stars before you die.

You know... 15 year olds.

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But thing is, quests actually require you pay attention. So, that makes sense

i know! quests so hard which is why they can be and often are botted! quests shouldnt give gear cuz they can be botted like LFR!

[oplawlz]

I have. Still a larger hassle than the LFR tool, which, again, there was no problem with whatsoever.

And is not being removed.

[klogaroth]

Blizzard is crazy about gear lately.
The last patch creates 4 tiers. ilevel difference is 50+.

Now it tries to give LFR no tier bonus and bad looking gear.
The argument is "if you don't raid, you don't need raid gear".

Do you agree?

That isn't the argument at all. LFR is still going to drop gear. It's actually having the drop rate increased.

Generally there is a correlation between gear and difficulty in any game with loot.

This tends to be achieved using one of two methods.

The harder fights simply drop better loot (WoW), or the harder fights have a higher chance to drop loot (Diablo).

Having the harder fights drop better loot tends to work better in a raid environment because it allows for a better gearing curve and throughout the entire raid group makes gearing less about pure luck. Personal gearing still has a luck factor of your item dropping, but raid-wide someone is getting an upgrade.

The gearing curve then allows for the difficulty curve of the raids to make sense in a world where you are constantly getting more gear unless you are BiS.
If all the raids dropped the same gear then there's pretty much two ways that could go. Easier raid difficulties become laughably easy. Dead in as matter of a few seconds. The other way is for the harder modes to be tuned so high that they pretty much require fully BiS gear to even consider.

Having multiple types of loot drop is pretty much the only thing that makes sense for the game, and Blizzard are trying to put across the same message that they have been putting across for a long, long time. LFR is a "tourist mode". It's not going to have good gear. It's still going to have gear, because you are still killing bosses. It's just being put in a more logical place in the progression of your character. Both in power and aesthetics. It's the same reason why the models quest gear aren't as good as the models for 5 man gear, which aren't as good as the models for raid gear. Given the number of levels of raiding there is now an extra step along the way, which seems perfectly reasonable. As your character progresses in power they look more powerful, that to me seems logical.

I'll say it yet again here. As I've said in your other thread. Twice.
Give the new group finder and the new normal mode a go. Or start now with flex. Or try something like oqueue or open raid. It's fully cross realm and not everyone is like the people you find spamming ilvl requirements in trade.

[Deleted]

And again you miss the point, more ways to gear up is good, for moving onto the next tier, regardless of difficulty, What if you don't enjoy heroic dungeons? what if you prefer doing LFR? What if you don't enjoy the new content that comes that offers catch up gear? and would rather run LFR? and vice versa, taking away stuff from one part of the content, is bad, less choice surely is always a bad thing?

You seem to be missing the point, not me.

Question: "If you don't raid, you don't need raid gear?"

Answer: "Correct, if you don't raid you don't need gear, because there is nothing else other than raiding that requires raid gear"

This is my point, and you have yet to disprove it.

First you stated how I don't take my gear off when I do dailies. I explained how that is a dumb comparison, as I don't need the gear to do dailies, but I keep it on because taking it off would of course be dumb.

Then you went on talking about how raids can be completed without tier sets. I told you how this is debatable, but even if it was true this was not what the discussion is about, it's about Raiding gear, not only set bonuses. You might be able to do it without bonuses with enough skill but you can't do it without appropriate raiding gear.

So then you started saying that LFR needs gear from LFR to move onto the next tier of LFR. Again this is false as you can complete LFR regardless of skill and gear thanks to immense undertuning and Dedication buff.

To finish it off you are saying how more ways to gear up is a good thing, I wouldn't say no. But that is again completely besides the point that you don't need raiding gear if you don't raid. If you want to start raiding and need some sort of catchup, said catchup shouldn't bring you on par with the people that are raiding current content, just below so you can join them.
And at the start of the expansion you will be able to raid with dungeon blues.

So at the end of the day you have still not disproven any of my points, and again I ask you to read my post about "What's better for the game", it's the first post in one of the previous pages.

[Last Starfighter]

Sure, but I don't see why it was so vile that us filthy casuals could enjoy set bonuses too. I don't see how the fun raiders have is diminished in any way at all by this.

There isn't just 2 types of players out there. There are not only Casuals and Raiders. There are raiders who are casual, and there are non raiders who play all day every day. I don't know if people realize this or not, but there are going to be FOUR difficulties in WoD. Normal is going to be like LFR is now. You'll have

-LFR
-Normal
-Heroic
-Mythic

LFR in WoD is going to be easier than LFR is now. Normal is going to compare to what LFR is now. People don't realize this. Mythic isn't going to be harder than Heroic is right now. So the difficulty chain puts LFR in WoD below LFR now.

[Bigbamboozal]

hi i'm a 7 days per week heroic raider on 7 alts every day full clear, noone else deserves any gear or else i don't have fun


this thread summed up

Infracted.

Not sure why you got infracted unless stuff was edited out....that IS what this thread is saying....not sure if we needed a summarization of it so early in...maybe later when everyone is off topic and foaming at the mouth at any rate...fucking heavy handed to get nailed for that.

Ot: I voted agree. It's called raid gear. It's for raids. Nbfd.
I am not even sure it was thread worthy, but since we are discussing it....1:if you don't raid, wtf would you need raid gear for in wod? Questing? Mm I guess if you are on a REGULAR server, it might help. But there's a simple solution. Go raid. You're on regular server, not like you're pvping or rp'ing....so what are you doing if not raiding? Pet battles? Pro tip: pet battles do not scale off of your gear.
And if you are on a pvp realm, best be wearing pvp gear at all times out in the world come wod. Unless you missed it, the days of raid gear owning pvp gear is supposedly coming to a close.
So I'm not even sure wtf people who are pissed about gear changes for lfr and raids are all pissy about.
I'm going to do something shocking here, I will 1: agree with the fellow I quoted, yes, this thread is summarized close to what you are saying...but I will also 2: say that if you are not raiding, why would you even give a toss?
What is there you possibly need that raid gear for outside of raiding?
Is it soloing?
Yes, it's soloing isn't it? Well, if you want better gears to solo, start raiding.
Because all the gear you want/need for soloing, is in a raid.

And last I checked, bitching and doing nothing does not make loot drop...if it did, would that be how you wanted to roll?
"Yes! I bitched and moaned until bis dropped!"
Lol, naw. Come to grips with it, if you don't raid you don't need raid gear, if you are so into soloing and you need that gear, learn to deal.

[Freaknsweet]

And that's exactly what's stupid. If I worked hard and bought a sweet car, that car is in absolutely no way at all diminished by the fact that everyone gets handed a free smart car. My car is still awesome. No one has taken my car from me, they just received a free, shittier car than what I worked hard for. Why do other people not feel the same way? Why is their car magically worse just because other people got a free smartcar? There's no logical reason why they should care.

This is a classic play school mentality. "I have a Tonka Truck and you don't ha ha" I thought must people out grew that by the time they are young adults.

[Rob D]

As a non-raider myself, I actually agree. Gear should be proportional to the effort/difficulty in optaining it. If I don't raid and only do LFR or heroics, then I actually don't need raid level gear. Of course when new tiers come into the game I do expect that LFR gear gets better. Most likely it will read low WOD raid gear ilevel eventually, but maybe only in two to three tiers.
And for the looks. Most gear my characters have are transmogged anyways. What I saw so far, I will most likely keep my transmogs.

[klogaroth]

I would argue that mentality carries over Into adult life in many many ways. Not saying it's good but to pretend ppl grow out of it is silly and ignores how a vast majority of people behave in many aspects of adulthood

It's quite a core part of humans. We attach value to things that are rare and things that are aesthetically pleasing.

Hence art and fashion and jewellery and other such things having potentially enormous value.

And you can't even use those to kill raid bosses.

[Freaknsweet]

I would argue that mentality carries over Into adult life in many many ways. Not saying it's good but to pretend ppl grow out of it is silly and ignores how a vast majority of people behave in many aspects of adulthood

Agree which is why I said "most" I know their are cases were adults behave worst than preschool children.