USS Jimmy Carter Mission Success

[cubby]

Dunno about you guys, but I want my government to be accountable to me as a voter.

You really, really don't understand covert missions and what real accountability means.

[Kellhound]

Indeed, you feeling okay Kell? This is the type of lolworthy article you would expect to see in Sputnik news or something.

Headline may as well read: "Our rusty old sub did something really really cool, but we're not telling you, but it totally happened honest" XD

Technically no, I am not feeling well. Fighting a leg infection.

[Elba]

You really, really don't understand covert missions and what real accountability means.

I do. I just value accountability more. The government should have no secrets from me, their sovereign, aka the voter.

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They are, that does not mean they tell you everything.

Why not, though? Shouldn't I, the voter, know what my servant, the government, is up to?

[Kellhound]

I do. I just value accountability more. The government should have no secrets from me, their sovereign, aka the voter.

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Why not, though? Shouldn't I, the voter, know what my servant, the government, is up to?

Actually, no, not in detail.

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Not all of these covert missions are morally sound.

Welcome to the real world.

[Elba]

Not all of these covert missions are morally sound.

Honestly, I don't see how any are. I can't think of a scenario that would be.

Actually, no, not in detail.

But then you are giving up power to the government. You become a servant.

3,333 baby. Yeaaaah.

[cubby]

I do. I just value accountability more. The government should have no secrets from me, their sovereign, aka the voter.

Which just goes to prove my point - you have a dangerously naive understanding of how governments work. Or should we have published a news article when the Allies broke the Enigma code in WWII?

[Elba]

Which just goes to prove my point - you have a dangerously naive understanding of how governments work. Or should we have published a news article when the Allies broke the Enigma code in WWII?

Yes. Mainly because, as a German, it woulda helped my country

[cubby]

Not all of these covert missions are morally sound.

And that is precisely why we have civilian oversight in regards to all covert missions. This isn't my first walk through the tulip patch. @Elba doesn't understand the issues, but I know you do. Bring your A-game, please.

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Yes. Mainly because, as a German, it woulda helped my country :P

OMFG that is hysterical. Well played sir, well played.
(not being sarcastic here - that was the comment of the day)

[bladeXcrasher]

Yeah I served on an old 637 and we decommed at the end of the 90s. They were already decomming some 688s ahead of us. These were the very early ones. The ones that weren't equipped to carry Tomahawks.

Wouldn't happen to have been the Rivers?

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Pretty awesome stuff - glad to see they can at show off a little - those guys work insanely hard and accomplish the impossible. Can we speculate as to what they sunk? Does it have to be a sinking to count? The article didn't elaborate on whether a mission accomplished can only be a kill.

Anyone lose a ship or sub or platform?

The boat with it's own squadron turned in it's hunter-killer keys when she got that extra 100 feet for the spook equipment.

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Yes. Mainly because, as a German, it woulda helped my country

So you are ok with Nazis, glad you finally cleared that up for everyone.

[Kellhound]

Honestly, I don't see how any are. I can't think of a scenario that would be.



But then you are giving up power to the government. You become a servant.

3,333 baby. Yeaaaah.

Having any government, by definition, is giving up individual power.

[cubby]

The boat with it's own squadron turned in it's hunter-killer keys when she got that extra 100 feet for the spook equipment.

Submarine size has very little to do with capabilities - especially in the hunter/killer genre. If the SSBN's didn't already have another job, they would be terrific platforms for hunter/killer missions.

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Honestly, I don't see how any are. I can't think of a scenario that would be.

You can't see how any covert mission could be morally sound? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you . . . ?

[Kellhound]

Yes. Mainly because, as a German, it woulda helped my country

By your reasoning, German should have told everyone how the Enigma machine worked and what the codes were....

[bladeXcrasher]

Submarine size has very little to do with capabilities - especially in the hunter/killer genre. If the SSBN's didn't already have another job, they would be terrific platforms for hunter/killer missions.

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You can't see how any covert mission could be morally sound? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you . . . ?

SSBN, Hunter killer...never. repurposed 641's only ever became slow approaches and the SSGN is the same. The Seawolf class was designed to hunt Russians, adding tons of hy-80 and equipment and decking to existing power plant size only limits her capabilities.

[cubby]

SSBN, Hunter killer...never. repurposed 641's only ever became slow approaches and the SSGN is the same. The Seawolf class was designed to hunt Russians, adding tons of hy-80 and equipment and decking to existing power plant size only limits her capabilities.

You don't have to be fast to be a hunter/killer. If they can't hear you, it doesn't matter how fast or slow your engines are. And the Ohio class boats are very silent. I'm not saying it's what they were designed for, merely that they could - and if they did, they would do a fine job of it.

[Elba]

You can't see how any covert mission could be morally sound? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you . . . ?

Well, to be fair, that I would find morally sound.

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By your reasoning, German should have told everyone how the Enigma machine worked and what the codes were....

No, cuz, remember, we were the Nazis, not a democracy.

[cubby]

Well, to be fair, that I would find morally sound.

Ah, gotcha. I think your point of view would be an interesting face-to-face conversation, but rather "dangerous" on a forum.

[Kellhound]

Submarine size has very little to do with capabilities - especially in the hunter/killer genre. If the SSBN's didn't already have another job, they would be terrific platforms for hunter/killer missions.

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You can't see how any covert mission could be morally sound? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you . . . ?

Actually size does matter, and smaller is generally better.

[XDurionX]

They've all been trained to use the toilet? That's great.

[Kellhound]

Well, to be fair, that I would find morally sound.

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No, cuz, remember, we were the Nazis, not a democracy.

Ah, so not being a democracy is ok when it for the betterment of the country....

[bladeXcrasher]

You don't have to be fast to be a hunter/killer. If they can't hear you, it doesn't matter how fast or slow your engines are. And the Ohio class boats are very silent. I'm not saying it's what they were designed for, merely that they could - and if they did, they would do a fine job of it.

Yeah, you kinda do since torpedoes are very loud. I'm very aware of how quiet an Ohio class is, I was on one for almost 5 years. But that comes when you drive 3 knots to nowhere. An Ohio class sub can't even go half as fast as a Seawolf class boat, they were built to go that fast for a reason, just took too long to finish it so the cold war was already over so that mission wasn't required anymore. That's why the Virginia class boats have a much smaller beam verse the Seawolf class.