Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hitei]

"The shadow of my corpse will choke this land for all eternity."

Yeah, because it's not like the immortal demons of the burning legion have corpses.

Oh wait.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Nyalotha. Ilgynoth says he goes to nyalotha upon dying.

Depending on what the hell Nyalotha is.

[Therougetitan]

As I see it the old gods we killed are dead. Sure with the way we killed them its not permanent. They can just have death wear off over time. But might not happen for ages so for the intent of the duration of WoW they are dead unless someone resurrects them like Cho'gall attempted to do with C'thun and what Garrosh actually pulled off with Y'shaarj's heart by using a power source.

I mean Cho’Gall and C’Thun legit had talks two years after the events of Ahn’Qiraj

In that very comic where Cho'gall is with C'thun it is said that C'thun is dead....

[Soulwind]

Depending on what the hell Nyalotha is.

It could be:

Gul'kafh an'shel. Yoq'al shn ky ywaq nuul.
Gaze into the void. It is the perpetuity in which they dwell.

The place where they come from. If they are rooted in a different dimension, no amount of damage to their bodies in Azeroth would kill them.

As I see it the old gods we killed are dead. Sure with the way we killed them its not permanent. They can just have death wear off over time. But might not happen for ages so for the intent of the duration of WoW they are dead unless someone resurrects them like Cho'gall attempted to do with C'thun and what Garrosh actually pulled off with Y'shaarj's heart by using a power source.

This is my point of view. They always come back, they do so more quickly if they are summoned, but they eventually come back regardless.

[Fahrad Wagner]

But it isn't clear at all. There's nothing stating that they aren't dead, just assumptions.

Because something isn't stated explicitly doesn't mean it shouldn't be understood by people implicitly. You don't have to state everything in order for it to be understood.

[EbaumsTipster]

Six pages while I'm gone and it's just back and forth crap about things Blizzard may never answer...

[Makorus]

The thing I am trying to say is that C'thun and Yogg are as dead as Y'shaarj was when he got ripped out (which everyone considers to be dead, even though he is still having influence i.e. the Sha).

It's no secret that Old Gods still have some kind of influence (the C'thun kill quest actually addressed that), even when dead, but they are both dead in an Old-God-sense.

[Shadochi]

Hey guys

https://gyazo.com/bdfda1abea45c248f141f922b3ae0abe

This place in Vashj'ir is called "Legion's Fate"

I was expecting the login screen, am disappointed.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeah, because it's not like the immortal demons of the burning legion have corpses.

Oh wait.

Ahahahaha...haha...

The Old God's aren't Immortal. If Y'sharrj could DIE, then the other Old Gods could as well. Only their presences remain. Remember, when we heard Yogg'saron whisper back in the 7.0 Ulduar BS, that wasn't really him. That was just his presence. Remember, Y'sharrj could whisper as well, and he was dead. So, their remains are still in the areas they effected. However, the Old God itself is gone.

[miffy23]

From the C'thuns item quest:



Knaifu also essentially says that only N'zoth is still alive. Yogg says that he is dead when we defeat him. The comic states that C'thun is dead.



That's such a stupid argument. How would they know that? They did the first and easiest thing they could do, pull them out. Turns out that oops, pulling them out isn't a good idea. So instead of experimenting more, they imprisoned them. Problem essentially solved. I mean, it's not like they actually could fight them on any reasonable scale. Titans can't shrink. The whole reason Titanforged exist is to fight Old Gods and their forces, so there'S that too.

Hell, Chronicles literally states that it wasn't even the fact that Y'shaarj died that caused the damage, but the fact that he got pulled out of the ground.

That comic is not canon anymore.
Knaifu technically only states that "the weakest of us will ultimately win" and "only one of us would remain, as was foretold" (mildly paraphrased), she never outright states that C'thun or Yogg are"dead" or even destroyed.
Yogg speaks about the impending Cataclysm and our impending doom when he is defeated, nothing about his own death.

We even have full-on blue posts flat out quoting ingame characters that "They are neither living nor dead. They are outside the cycle."

For convenience's sake, simply consider only Y'Shaarj to be completely "gone", and C'thun and Yogg as simply "defeated", for now.

[Dreadlack]

C'thun and Yogg are dead as far as we know.

We have quests and NPCs telling us C'thun is very dead.

C'thun: "As you look at the remnants of the colossal abomination your heart nearly freezes. Even in death you can feel the legacy of C'Thun's evil around you." from quest C'thun's Legacy.

Yogg himself when he dies: "Your fate is sealed. The end of days is finally upon you and ALL who inhabit this miserable little seedling. The shadow of my corpse will choke this land for all eternity." Why would his corpse choke this land if he would return?

Dave Kosak himself has even said that Old Gods die: "Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed."

There is nothing that points to these Old Gods still being alive. If Blizzard decides to bring them back that's a different thing but from a lore point of view these guys are dead.

[Soulwind]

The thing I am trying to say is that C'thun and Yogg are as dead as Y'shaarj was when he got ripped out (which everyone considers to be dead, even though he is still having influence i.e. the Sha).

It's no secret that Old Gods still have some kind of influence (the C'thun kill quest actually addressed that), even when dead, but they are both dead in an Old-God-sense.

As dead as they will be until we go to wherever they come from. It's possible we could sever them from our reality from there, banishing their manifestations permanently.

[Makorus]

That comic is not canon anymore.
Knaifu technically only states that "the weakest of us will ultimately win" and "only one of us would remain, as was foretold" (mildly paraphrased), she never outright states that C'thun or Yogg are"dead" or even destroyed.
Yogg speaks about the impending Cataclysm and our impending doom when he is defeated, nothing about his own death.

We even have full-on blue posts flat out quoting ingame characters that "They are neither living nor dead. They are outside the cycle."

For convenience's sake, simply consider only Y'Shaarj to be completely "gone", and C'thun and Yogg as simply "defeated", for now.

That comic is explicitly canon, as of last year. Like, Blizzard actually said that.

[Raetary]

who would've thought that the corpses of creatures created in the void by the void still radiate tons of void energy even after their precious death.

[Hitei]

What you just quoted there, already contradicts your own argument about the Titans knowing shit. They didn't know that Y'sharrj's Death could cause that. Hell, that's why they created Ulduar, and the other prisons to begin with.

You're acting as if they knew this all along. That's not true, because, if they did know, then the Well wouldnt've been a thing.

I also happen to not be omniscient. Not all of us Titans are all Knowing, ya know.

No, I'm saying it is full-retard to assume that, after what happened with Y'shaarj, they didn't look at all into what exactly the problem was, and that it never occured to them that they could just beat the Old Gods to death instead of pulling them out.

The Titans aren't omniscient, but they also aren't complete idiots, which is what they would have to be to have subdued the Old Gods, sealed them off, set up systems around them to contain and monitor them, set up a system that monitors Azeroth's vitals, created a fallback doomsday device system able to monitor both the planet's status and the status of their forces and the Old God corruption and then made an AI to scan that system and report back across vast distances of space to tell them if things were okay.... and never realize that all they had to do was have a dozen titanforged whack at the Old Gods for 15 minutes to save Azeroth permanently and completely element any risk of corruption.

Ahahahaha...haha...

The Old God's aren't Immortal. If Y'sharrj could DIE, then the other Old Gods could as well. Only their presences remain. Remember, when we heard Yogg'saron whisper back in the 7.0 Ulduar BS, that wasn't really him. That was just his presence. Remember, Y'sharrj could whisper as well, and he was dead. So, their remains are still in the areas they effected. However, the Old God itself is gone.

Of course. Even though we know they exist outside of death, and can continue to whisper, and Y'shaarj's heart was beating... they are really dead! I swear! Please believe me even though they are doing a bunch of things you don't do when you are actually dead!

[Fahrad Wagner]

The thing I am trying to say is that C'thun and Yogg are as dead as Y'shaarj was when he got ripped out (which everyone considers to be dead, even though he is still having influence i.e. the Sha).

It's no secret that Old Gods still have some kind of influence (the C'thun kill quest actually addressed that), even when dead, but they are both dead in an Old-God-sense.

I can agree upon saying they "dead in an Old-God-sense". But that being said, they're definitely not permadead. As for Ny'alotha, it could be the place where they go after being defeated indeed. Maybe we'll get an answer on that one day.

[Makorus]

Here's an interesting thing I found:

https://twitter.com/davekosak/status/368091834444029952

[Azalar]

Here's an interesting thing I found:

https://twitter.com/davekosak/status/368091834444029952

Why am I always baited into this lmao

[TheFirstOnes]

The thing I am trying to say is that C'thun and Yogg are as dead as Y'shaarj was when he got ripped out (which everyone considers to be dead, even though he is still having influence i.e. the Sha).

It's no secret that Old Gods still have some kind of influence (the C'thun kill quest actually addressed that), even when dead, but they are both dead in an Old-God-sense.

Yeah. Pretty much.

People need to realize that: While Yogg'Saron and C'thun were weakened, they were still in full form. No mention of Avatar's, or anything. We killed them. The only reason Y'sharrj caused the Well, was not just because he did all his shit against the Keepers (When he was at full Strength, btw), but it was also because of the fact that Aman'thul plucked him out like a Twig.

Also, don't say ANYTHING about C'thun and Cho'gall, cause that could mean anything. Remember, Y'sharrj whispered to Garrosh while we were fighting him. Hell, even if that wasn't the case, the 4.0 C'thun BS was SCRAPPED! It's not there anymore. Not to mention the current Lore retconning the Old God's "outside the life/death cycle" thing.

[Soulwind]

Why am I always baited into this lmao

Because of this.